Change needed .. and fast

[Comic Book Guy]

The title of the thread is fairly obvious. I have stayed out of the online debate for a reason, I didn't want to see my beloved club spill its guts out in public but I now can stay quiet no longer.
The current committee should resign en bloc immediately because I now (and many others) suspect that they have lost the confidence of the club members.
The chairman has consistently misled the members about the true level of debt in the club and his and the committee's hindrance of the proposed finance committee was the last straw for me.
While many people will say we should put aside our differences for the good of the club I and others cannot simply give money to the club and watch it disappear into a black hole. I did donate money but on the strict understanding that the finance committee would have the say on where it went.
Some say well who will run it? Well I say an interim committee with the broad support of the members should be established to see the club through to February 2009 when a new committee can be voted in.
The days of 9 people running a club are over and I believe that sub-committees should be formed to oversee vital aspects of the club such as finance, fundraising, youth development etc. These can report to the main committee. The more people involved the better for the club.
Many people fear that the club is now beyond saving, I disagree, there is enormous good will towards Ramblers both inside and outside the town but people will not get involved with the current regime, that may be a tragedy but it is the reality.
So, to finish I would urge the committee to listen to their collective conscience and RESIGN NOW. You might believe that you are serving the best interests of the club by staying but I think otherwise.
A fresh start is what is required otherwise this club is heading for the abyss.

[marty]

I agree and many more with me,its only a matter of time before one goes hopefully the rest will follow,there are people who will help the club but not with the current board in place.Somebody must hold their hands up to this mess its not the players or the fans but their the only ones suffering.

[D'Rambo]

100% agree with everything you have said.

It needs to happen now!!!!

[jamesd]

The current committee should resign en bloc immediately because I now (and many others) suspect that they have lost the confidence of the club members.
The chairman has consistently misled the members about the true level of debt in the club and his and the committee's hindrance of the proposed finance committee was the last straw for me.

So, to finish I would urge the committee to listen to their collective conscience and RESIGN NOW. You might believe that you are serving the best interests of the club by staying but I think otherwise.
A fresh start is what is required otherwise this club is heading for the abyss.

You will probably be slated on here by Bella and others who cannot see the wood from the trees.

The situation is far worse now than anyone has been told, and it is just unacceptable for people to continue supporting a Chairman who has led this Club to its darkest hour.

Even now, the Chairman would rather mislead the members rather than be a Man and go.

There are many unanswered questions going around and it appears to be a sort of secret society between the Chairman and those in charge of running the Club House. We have had enough of this, and while there is time, and I stress there isn't much time left, I urge all serious members and supporters of Cobh Ramblers FC to do whatever they can to remove the Chairman and his buddies, and get some decent people in to save our club.

[6yardpunisha]

The title of the thread is fairly obvious. I have stayed out of the online debate for a reason, I didn't want to see my beloved club spill its guts out in public but I now can stay quiet no longer.
The current committee should resign en bloc immediately because I now (and many others) suspect that they have lost the confidence of the club members.
The chairman has consistently misled the members about the true level of debt in the club and his and the committee's hindrance of the proposed finance committee was the last straw for me.
While many people will say we should put aside our differences for the good of the club I and others cannot simply give money to the club and watch it disappear into a black hole. I did donate money but on the strict understanding that the finance committee would have the say on where it went.
Some say well who will run it? Well I say an interim committee with the broad support of the members should be established to see the club through to February 2009 when a new committee can be voted in.
The days of 9 people running a club are over and I believe that sub-committees should be formed to oversee vital aspects of the club such as finance, fundraising, youth development etc. These can report to the main committee. The more people involved the better for the club.
Many people fear that the club is now beyond saving, I disagree, there is enormous good will towards Ramblers both inside and outside the town but people will not get involved with the current regime, that may be a tragedy but it is the reality.
So, to finish I would urge the committee to listen to their collective conscience and RESIGN NOW. You might believe that you are serving the best interests of the club by staying but I think otherwise.
A fresh start is what is required otherwise this club is heading for the abyss.

and who would the interim committee be?, all that would happen would be that all the former committee members would come back and take over and that is not a good proposition for the club.

[6yardpunisha]

when are we as a members club going to get up off our arses and help the club, speaking to city fans last night and looking at how they are reacting to their situation is fantastic, they are a credit to LOI football, what are we doing, f**k all

[bellavistaman]

and who would the interim committee be?, all that would happen would be that all the former committee members would come back and take over and that is not a good proposition for the club.

Former committee members who walked on the club, something the current committee havent done too much pride in themselves. I got that confirmed last night by a family member of one of the committee.

[bellavistaman]

when are we as a members club going to get up off our arses and help the club, speaking to city fans last night and looking at how they are reacting to their situation is fantastic, they are a credit to LOI football, what are we doing, f**k all

Exactly my thought, if people put their efforts into saving the club that they are into trying to get rid of the committee we might have some hope. Like Don Ramos post a good intention just shot down straight away

[rambler14]

People are sceptical to give money to a club that can't seem to manage it.

[6yardpunisha]

People are sceptical to give money to a club that can't seem to manage it.

so we all just stand by and watch the club go down just because no one likes the chairman or the committee, people have an awful lot of growing up to do around the club(that remark not aimed at you R14)

[bellavistaman]

(that remark not aimed at you R14)

but grow up r-14,:D:D

punishas right though

[Comic Book Guy]

Well let me put it this way- would City fans have done as much if arkaga were still running the club after the debt of 1.3million was revealed? I doubt it very much.

[The Rebel Ram]

Well ye are all fooked now cause I'm finally back!!!!

My thoughts for all those who haven't been visiting the better site! (it's where I'll be posting mostly from now on)

I think the whole lot have to go, the complete committee. I didn't think this a few months ago but I do now!
There are none of them capable of running the club in the manner in which it should be. There are good people there but I just do not think the majority of them are capable of what is needed.
As was stated already this has been going on from all the previous chairmen too, not one of them ran the club successfully. And what was it down to? The Constitution!
They have free reign.
When asked by the Aduitor to produce a budget for the year he received a single sheet of paper with a few figures on it!
No wonder the debt cannot be determined and we have gotten into the state we are, on the brink of colapse. I fear we will not make it to the end of the season, things have gone too far.
As for who can do a better job. There are plenty of well educated determined buisnessmen in the club that would love to go in and turn things around. Who says we need a Chairman. We need a committee with democratic control! Radical thinking!
I believe 100% that the club can be turned round and made debt free within the next 3-4 years by allowing those with the knowledge and experience of running a buisness in. Budgeting, road maps, proceedures, structure, teams, mission statement, goals, objectives, commitments, strageies, priorities, purpose, accountability........................What if any of these are being conducted at present? F all I bet yet they are all critical buisness elements!
This has to happen straight away, If we have to wait until the AGM to vote in a whole new committee and replace the consititution then I'm afraid we probably won't even get that far, the chains will be on the gate.

[Comic Book Guy]

That wasn't what i had in mind when I said an interim committee, I reckon there are a lot of respectable decent people around the club who will come together for the betterment of the club but will not do so under this regime.

[Comic Book Guy]

I agree with most of what you say but as i stated when I started the thread the days of 9 people running a club and no-one else are surely over. I agree that business people should be approached but I guess they would be appalled at how this once great club is being run, the situation can be turned around but people have to ask themselves do they want the club to survive or are the going to let personalities cloud their judgement?

[The Rebel Ram]

There are some good decent knowledgable people in the club who would be willing to step up to the mark and put in the hard work that is required.
The full committee has togo IMO

[The Rebel Ram]

I agree with most of what you say but as i stated when I started the thread the days of 9 people running a club and no-one else are surely over. I agree that business people should be approached but I guess they would be appalled at how this once great club is being run, the situation can be turned around but people have to ask themselves do they want the club to survive or are the going to let personalities cloud their judgement?

I'm all in favour if sub committes also, the business people I had in mind are all members.

[don ramo]

you need someone to take it off the members, and have a vested interest in running the club, cause honestly what do the commitee have to lose, they dont have anything invested in the club, time thats about it, they get paid for there services on match day (some anyway im unsure of how it works),

there is no investment on cobh ramblers, noone has any substantial money invested in the club to care about the day to day running of the club,

you need a businessman to come along, and say to the members im willing to take control of the club, but wish for you the members to relinquis control to allow me to run thsi club sucessfully, and make it self sustaining, which it should be,

i for one wouldnt care as long as the assets were protected in a way that the pitch will be used for soccer only and noting else,

[micls]

Well let me put it this way- would City fans have done as much if arkaga were still running the club after the debt of 1.3million was revealed? I doubt it very much.

Eh they were.....until the examiner took over. And yes we were

And they still own it atm.

I can see your point, I felt the same but if its a choice of not being sure what will happen if you hand over money or definitely not having a club I know what Id choose

[the sub]

Why don't you take note of what city are doing.. I have kept saying this over the last few weeks still your all moaning the chairman, the commette and still your fans are doing nothing. If the examiner comes in lads he will sell your assets or sell to someone who will take over the club. Then where will you be no club no team and still no money And i suppose you will be still asking for a new commette. If you do not get money into your club fast l will repeat myself to tell you your assets will be sold off. But at least you will have your footie web pager to moan about.

[The Rebel Ram]

Why don't you take note of what city are doing.. I have kept saying this over the last few weeks still your all moaning the chairman, the commette and still your fans are doing nothing. If the examiner comes in lads he will sell your assets or sell to someone who will take over the club. Then where will you be no club no team and still no money And i suppose you will be still asking for a new commette. If you do not get money into your club fast l will repeat myself to tell you your assets will be sold off. But at least you will have your footie web pager to moan about.

We are a members only club and cannot go into examinership!
It does seem all sweet and rosie and simple to fix but it is not.
The constitution is preventing us as members from doing anything until the AGM which is in Jan or Feb.
The committee is protected. If there was a vote of no confidence in the chairman he would still not have to go!
People are not going to help bailing out the water from the sinking ship when they cannot do anything to prevent the leaks.
The constitution has to be the first thing on the agenda if the committee can see sense and step down. Only then can structures be put in place and sub committees organised so as to give locals the confidence to invest and save the club!

[the sub]

If you owe larges debts inc revenue Your club can Be made bankrupt or an examimer can be brought to see if they salvage the club or business either ways ur assets will be sold to pay your creditors.. Just because your club is run by members you are not out side the courts or law. You still have to pay the creditor

[6yardpunisha]

That wasn't what i had in mind when I said an interim committee, I reckon there are a lot of respectable decent people around the club who will come together for the betterment of the club but will not do so under this regime.

doesnt mean that they will do a good job, i believe most of the current committee fall under respectable and decent but you need experience and expertise, your option doesnt quite tick all the boxes

[Redshanks]

Two things!
One. I take comic book guy at his word why he hasnt been on here for a while, but I find suspect why the vultures are circling the wagons at this time. When a members meeting was called in the club last week, many were there but all they seem to want was the chairman and his commitees heads. They totally missed the point why the meeting was called and they certainly werent listening to the proposals put forward to move things forward.
two. Rebel Ram has spelt it out here over a few threads and no one seems to be biting. 'Its The Consitutuion Stupid' to use Clinton Speak.
Interim Committees or Super or Sub Committees arent worth a toss unless the constitution is made member friendly and provides for accountable and open democracy. It was only revealed last week by a former senior club official that our current constitution was written up by a legal student that never passed his exams. God save us!
We all know that many have and still continue to hide behind our current constitution, and that is largely why we are in this mess -no accountabiliy! If comic book guy and others are really really serious about what they say, lets hear and see their proposals about this constitution -lets see their business plans -their mission statements etc!

[Comic Book Guy]

Redshanks, RR, I understand what you say about the constitution, by all means it should be overhauled, but rememember a constitution does not get a club into debt. A management committee of a club is what gets you into debt by spending what you don't have.
The way I see it is that we need money and very fast, the crux of the matter is that many won't give that money under the current set up.
BTW I'm not a vulture circling the wagons, just deeply worried. We owe it to the past generations who built the club up and to future generations to keep it going.

[rambler14]

It was only revealed last week by a former senior club official that our current constitution was written up by a legal student that never passed his exams. God save us!


What a club, seriously a new low!

[the sub]

that maybe correct .. but you all must have read it, voted on it and passed it otherwise it would not be there.
but still all everyone of you are looking for something to moan about instead on doing the right thing which is getting together as a club/ team and save your club.
The rate you all are going you could write a book about the club and it could be a best seller. you could call it '' The Blame Game Now It Over''

[Redshanks]

The Constitution did exactly get us into debt because it allowed others to do just that and still allows for it to continue.

No one will come forward with their money until they see a fool-proof means of protecting against such a scenario repeating itself. So its no good saying get rid of the present lot if those who take over are protected to doing the same thing by our costitution.

There is no getting away from this basic reality -the constitution must be changed to ensure that members have everything infront of them and they and they alone sign off on everything thats done in their name. Lets start by putting a budget in place for next year, but first it must be put before the members for approval.

With that sort of accountability you might get people to step up with their money, but more importantly, people on the outside who have shied away from the bad name of Cobh Ramblers for years, just might start to come inside our gates, and know that the ticket fee they had paid has gone where its supposed to!

[Redshanks]

I heard that one of the supposed Cork City investors who was at Saturdays game, sent a text to a Ramblers official later and said he was disgusted by the sight of so many people being let in the gate of colmans pk for free! ****ing morons

I heard a conversation between two dogs on the street discussing it yesterday!

[drinkfeckarse]

I heard.....


You see that's the problem in Cobh right there. Always has been.

[Redshanks]

I heard what I already saw with my own eyes, and have for months. I was only one of many people who reported to the chairman about what everyone sees going on at that gate. So when someone else mentions the same thing -ya I'll believe it, and when someone who's reported as being an investor with the opposing team at a local derby, repeats the same thing, I'll also believe it but with much concern!

[The Rebel Ram]

The Constitution did exactly get us into debt because it allowed others to do just that and still allows for it to continue.

No one will come forward with their money until they see a fool-proof means of protecting against such a scenario repeating itself. So its no good saying get rid of the present lot if those who take over are protected to doing the same thing by our costitution.
There is no getting away from this basic reality -the constitution must be changed to ensure that members have everything infront of them and they and they alone sign off on everything thats done in their name. Lets start by putting a budget in place for next year, but first it must be put before the members for approval.

With that sort of accountability you might get people to step up with their money, but more importantly, people on the outside who have shied away from the bad name of Cobh Ramblers for years, just might start to come inside our gates, and know that the ticket fee they had paid has gone where its supposed to!

That is it in a nutshell. The supporters will put a package in place to save the club once they have protection!

[Rambler1]

I heard that one of the supposed Cork City investors who was at Saturdays game, sent a text to a Ramblers official later and said he was disgusted by the sight of so many people being let in the gate of colmans pk for free! ****ing morons

I heard a conversation between two dogs on the street discussing it yesterday!Ya thats right, I got in at the gate free. and so did about two others behind me....only prob with that is I have a season ticket which i didnt show as they know me.Also two behind have season tickets as I know them and they are at AGMs... but then again City Investors know us ....dont they?
Thats how bad rumours start...and we all know there is lots of tem around

[don ramo]

Ya thats right, I got in at the gate free. and so did about two others behind me....only prob with that is I have a season ticket which i didnt show as they know me.Also two behind have season tickets as I know them and they are at AGMs... but then again City Investors know us ....dont they?
Thats how bad rumours start...and we all know there is lots of tem around
ya well thats what the turnstyles are for, stop trying to protect people, it wasnt just season ticket holders it was anyone who knocked on the gate, there is no reason for the main gate to be opened unless a car needs to enter the ground, that gate should reamain closed at all times otherwise,

sure last year someone opened the gate to find 300 people behind it and over a hundred got in for free,

[luka]

that gate should reamain closed at all times otherwise,

Actually Dr, my guess is that those gates should be open at all times and when I say open I mean opened wide throughout a game, especially with a crown like there was at the City game. The words 'Health & Safety' srping to mind.

[Redshanks]

As someone already said, we could be making excuses till the cows come home. The gate situation at Colmans Pk gate is the centre of town joke/gossip and probably in Cork too, but whos doing anything about it.

We know the same people will be there doing the same thing at the next home game. Those of us who had a part to play in the Sunderland game were privy to how the gate at Turners Cross is policed and managed -what an eye opener -No one and I mean no one, including the ref and his officials gets a foot inside the gate without the proper ID Pass!

[don ramo]

Actually Dr, my guess is that those gates should be open at all times and when I say open I mean opened wide throughout a game, especially with a crown like there was at the City game. The words 'Health & Safety' srping to mind.

what in case the north terrace catches fire :D
city keep one gate open for crowds of 2-8000, ireland games in lansdown, 50000 people, gates closed:eek:

[Rambler1]

ya well thats what the turnstyles are for, stop trying to protect people, it wasnt just season ticket holders it was anyone who knocked on the gate, there is no reason for the main gate to be opened unless a car needs to enter the ground, that gate should reamain closed at all times otherwise,

sure last year someone opened the gate to find 300 people behind it and over a hundred got in for free,Listen ya muppet....I dont go in that gate for the fun of winding people up . I, and more like me that help for free, have to use that most times to get in and get ready to do what we need to do On time.i.e thats me the stewards, the shop girls, the programme sellers, refs assistants etc etc ie and anyone else I forgot, that is anyone who takes the time and effort to help and not be mouthing off about covering up for people...I aint covering up for anyone bud, Ive had more season tickets then you have had hot dinners...so get a life,give a hand and you can use it too, promise I'll protect ye....

[don ramo]

Listen ya muppet....I dont go in that gate for the fun of winding people up . I, and more like me that help for free, have to use that most times to get in and get ready to do what we need to do On time.i.e thats me the stewards, the shop girls, the programme sellers, refs assistants etc etc ie and anyone else I forgot, that is anyone who takes the time and effort to help and not be mouthing off about covering up for people...I aint covering up for anyone bud, Ive had more season tickets then you have had hot dinners...so get a life,give a hand and you can use it too, promise I'll protect ye....

stupid post, there in no congestion at the turnstyles, so therefore there quicker, its not like you need to show identification, everyone knows the stewarts and all others who help out on match day,

even if YOU and the HELPERS use the main gate, there are still people entering it for free so how do are ya gonna stop that, i also know the poeple who help out, so dont bother trying to pull the wool over my eyes,

and why are you so defensive,

[don ramo]

Ive had more season tickets then you have had hot dinners...so get a life,
man another one, your fantastic, im only in my 20s, when im in my 50s ill have had 30+ season tickets also

[jebus]

Listen ya muppet....I dont go in that gate for the fun of winding people up . I, and more like me that help for free, have to use that most times to get in and get ready to do what we need to do On time.i.e thats me the stewards, the shop girls, the programme sellers, refs assistants etc etc ie and anyone else I forgot, that is anyone who takes the time and effort to help and not be mouthing off about covering up for people...I aint covering up for anyone bud, Ive had more season tickets then you have had hot dinners...so get a life,give a hand and you can use it too, promise I'll protect ye....

He's not getting an infraction but he is getting a warning for personal abuse. Let's follow Don Ramo's lead and not rise to the petty insults with name calling lads :)

[bellavistaman]

man another one, your fantastic, im only in my 20s, when im in my 50s ill have had 30+ season tickets also

:D the one that bugs the **** out of me, where were you in 83 when i travelled the length and breath of the country for the club??

[6yardpunisha]

:D the one that bugs the **** out of me, where were you in 83 when i travelled the length and breath of the country for the club??

funny thing about them saying that is club was playing MSL so they only had to travel for FAI & Intermediate cup games

[Redshanks]

I think Rambler 1 totally missed the point that was being made here -Mupphet talk to one side - The problem is not the people -volunteer workers or any others for using the side /main gate, its the persons who let them/ invite through for nothing which is the real problem, and one no one seems to be interesting in dealing with.

I'm aware that many of those volunteer workers do hold season tickets but there has to be structures and rules for these volunteers passing through the gate. Even though they are all well known faces to the person operating the gate, they still should be asked and seen to produce ID for the benifit of the watching public and visitors alike. But the even bigger issue of non-voluntary people/friends being allowed through with a nod and a wink has to be addressed. We are a laughing stock and need to grow up around this very worrying issue!

[SalvadorSanchez]

Lads,
First off, I'm very sorry to see CRFC in the position that it's in, I've a great deal of time for Cobh fans. And yes I'm aware that my own club isn't much better off than you as regards points or money...

What options do CRFC have? getting rid of the board doesn't make money appear and doesn't get the debts off ye're back.

Going back to MSL is not an option imo, I think it'll be hard for ye to keep the club going having been LOI for so long and then going back to MSL.

What's the situation with the ground? do you own it? Can you get investors in to sell them the ground and buy it back over 20 years?
It's not ideal I know but it'll allow you to bring in cash and then pay the investors off at a manageable rate over a long time.... it's hard to get sponsors/investors in... they see LOI as a bottomless pit that eats money and gives nothing back, a sell and buy back might work as it gives the investors the security of assets... I don't know if this is even on, and even if it is it's unpalatable but I'd hate to see Cobh or any other club fold.
Just look what happened to Home Farm... and to a lesser extent Kilkenny..

[SalvadorSanchez]

I think Rambler 1 totally missed the point that was being made here -Mupphet talk to one side - The problem is not the people -volunteer workers or any others for using the side /main gate, its the persons who let them/ invite through for nothing which is the real problem, and one no one seems to be interesting in dealing with.

I'm aware that many of those volunteer workers do hold season tickets but there has to be structures and rules for these volunteers passing through the gate. Even though they are all well known faces to the person operating the gate, they still should be asked and seen to produce ID for the benifit of the watching public and visitors alike. But the even bigger issue of non-voluntary people/friends being allowed through with a nod and a wink has to be addressed. We are a laughing stock and need to grow up around this very worrying issue!

This can be sorted out by installing 1 camera in the turnstiles (or a trusted observer) and by putting in a couple of scanners for season tickets
We had the same problem, I worked turnstiles and for 2 seasons I had about 20 adults going in just through my turnstile each game saying "I'm such and such, I have a season ticket, X said it was alright"
At first I told chancers that I didn't give a monkeys F*** who they were and no ticket meant no entry, I was soon set straight by the great and the good that certain people were such great friends of the club that they didn't have to touch vulgar money to come in....
Fair play to Nick Leeson and Noel Meehan, they soon put the kibosh on that bulls**t, but to do that you need the Chairman to back the people on the turnstiles 100% and if you don't have that a culture of letting people in for free gets stronger and the club lose thousands during a season because people let their mates in as well.

[Rambler1]

stupid post, there in no congestion at the turnstyles, so therefore there quicker, its not like you need to show identification, everyone knows the stewarts and all others who help out on match day,

even if YOU and the HELPERS use the main gate, there are still people entering it for free so how do are ya gonna stop that, i also know the poeple who help out, so dont bother trying to pull the wool over my eyes,

and why are you so defensive,
OK then DR sorry about muppet bit but Ive just got so fed up this year with people havin a go at anyone who attempts to do anything to move the club forward, thats what im defensive about,,,if we had half the amount of help and goodwill for the club as "suggestions" as to whats wrong then we would be brilliant. It seams to be open season recently that anyone involved with the club is abusing it so hense the lack of understanding when anyone going in the main gate is "Cheating the club" or "well In"

I use the main gate because unknown to you I have used turnstiles previously for some matches but gave up as I ended up missing the bits I needed to do at the start of games, missed mascot shots etc and then got grilled afterwards as to why I missed the shots.I havnt seen anyone going thru that shouldnt have so when people say that theres people are going thru the main gate to avoid paying, than Im saying that I am fully paid up ....and well beyond it if you want to inquire about same...and yes Im one of the ones who uses the main gate.And if you know of people who are, than name and shame, but be sure who you label as "cheaters" Not everyone is so dont tar all with same brush.

If theres any wool to be pulled its amazing how the knockers are brilliant at the blame game as to whats wrong with our great club but conviently avoid (couldnt be bothered)giviing a helping hand themselves or have and not done much better. If we had collectivly done better, then our youth teams would not have to play their home games in Ringaskiddy due to no underage pitch.Its a disgrace and yet this is where we are after almost 30 years of league of Ireland football.

People also conveniently forget or ignore how much additional effort, time, professionalism, money etc are required to run a premier outfit. The difference in time, commitment, financal burdens etc is staggering and I challange anyone out there who thinks that they can do better or do anything at all to help to do so. Me and a fair few more will be delighted to stop pulling any wool over anyones eyes and have a well earned rest from going thru any gate......

[don ramo]

i do my bit to help out i buy tickets a pay into games even though i hold season ticket, id be in the crowds singing with the lads (granted not all the time), but, on match night, i only have one agenda, and thats watch the match, maybe some people are happy to miss parts of the game, but im not, i used to help out but found i missed to much and i was only 15 then,

and to be honest i would consider the turnstyles faster as you get your tickets seperate and there is always someone there, the gate you have to wait for them to open, after i complained the person on the gate got really paraniod looking to see if the chairman was watching him after he gave out to him, so therefore he was obvioulsy doing something wrong, and the chairman obviously agres with me noone should enter through the gate, people seem to blame the chairman a lot, yet none them will do as he tells them,

im not nameing names as ive got roasted before for it, but even if one person enters for free, it is unfair to rest of us that actually are willing to help the club

[luka]

Im saying that I am fully paid up ....and well beyond it if you want to inquire about same...

I can verify that.


I also use the main gate for every home game, because well, I suppose that the time I get there it's the only way in and I too would get whinged at if I wasn't there on time to do my bits.

I brought two people in through the main gate for the City game, but they were two that already had tickets and were meeting me there. That's the only time I ever brouught anyone through that gate.

[Redshanks]

Look, we all used that gate, whether it was to sell programmes outside or for other related activities but therein lies the problem. If we bend the rules once, where does it end -we know and can see exactly where it ends. You can only break the rules if you know you will be allowed to.

As for Sanchez idea of cameras and schaners -I dont know if they are installed in the turnstyles but they are not on the main gate where everyone is presently focussed -Why? Could we borrow Nick Leeson & Co for a season?