Glenn Whelan

[geysir]

At 24 Glenn was a pup, he's a late bloomer. Glenn is doing very well, he is assured and effective in most everything he is involved with. In this game Liverpool are a team stripped of most everything that one use to associate with Liverpool, emasculated might be an apt description.

[Charlie Darwin]

Scored his penalty in the shootout, as did Walters, but the hoofers in their team let them down.

[tricky_colour]

We would be saying he is a 24 y/o uncapped or fringe player, who has great potential to be a top class player and captain, of course some would be saying he was immobile, only passes backwards and can't tackle.

The debate continues to this day :p

[tricky_colour]

Missed the penalties, I assume Walters scored.(he got first) I Will have a youtube at it.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIaiv4tsUZQ

[DeLorean]

It was a shame really as an Everton v Stoke final would have been a bit of a win-win. It'll probably end up being Liverpool v Man City I suppose.

Stoke were by far the better side as well, especially in the second half, but seemed to settle for what they had once Arnautovic went off with about twenty minutes left. He was having a brilliant second half. I was thinking they'd need to win it in normal/extra time as Liverpool have a freakishly good record in shoot-outs, and with Bojan, Arnautovic and Adam the players that had been replaced they were down three guys you'd be fairly confident would score their penalties, not that things are ever that straightforward.

Klopp said that Stoke reverted to their old style, Butland to Crouch all night, I really don't know what game he was watching. They went direct at times for sure, but whatever decent football was produced on the night, it was by the Potters. The were electric for the first twenty minutes of the second half and had something like 60% possession at half time, hardly reflective of a team that had resorted to hoofing.

Whelan really came into his own in the second half once the game was stretched as Stoke drove forward. Despite having a couple of his YOP described passes thrown in, he was instrumental in restricting Liverpool to... well to pretty much nothing!

Walters was a constant menace also, he could have easily got on the scoresheet as he had at least four chances, two in each half that I can remember. To be fair, three of the four were barely half chances with the best one in the first half where he pulled his shot wide when through on Mignolet from a tight angle. He telegraphed two shots that Sakho blocked in the second half when maybe he could have been a bit more clever and faked the shots to work a better position, as Sakho had was totally exposed having lunged in front of him. How does that guy get on the French team by the way?

As unlucky as they probably were on the night, I suppose Stoke can't have many complaints overall. Their goal was clearly offside and they totally underperformed in the first leg, that's where the tie was lost in hindsight.

[paul_oshea]

He was very bad last night especially in the first half.he got dispossessed too easily on 3 occasions and a couple of misplaced passes when he actually tried to go forward or sideways. I now realise its an inability under pressure, nothing more nothing less. As usual always going for the easy lass straight back to defence, on one ocassuon if he turned to his left there was space in the middle and a possible counter.he just goes for the simple pass back to the defender....the defender then hoofs it. Defenders look for an out ball, tbey expect the midfielder to turn and move the ball forward not send it back again especially if players around, more often than not this leads to a defender just hoofing it forward - which is what we see so often with Glenn and Ireland

[DeLorean]

I agree with a lot of that, but he'll never be a 'turn and use it' type of midfield playmaker. There's no point in us even considering that at this stage, we just know we're not going to get it. I'm surprised it's only now you're realising this Paul, that it's an inability under pressure, what else would it be?

I thought he had very little to do in the first half, seeing as he job is making it difficult for the opponents once the reach the attacking third mainly. Liverpool were obliging enough to make it difficult for themselves, and Stoke weren't pouring bodies forward at this stage anyway. The second half was completely different, especially the first twenty minutes where I though he got through an awful lot of good work, closing down, interceptions, tackles, etc. All the stuff he gets paid for I suppose.

[geysir]

I agree with a lot of that, but he'll never be a 'turn and use it' type of midfield playmaker. There's no point in us even considering that at this stage, we just know we're not going to get it. I'm surprised it's only now you're realising this Paul, that it's an inability under pressure, what else would it be?

I thought he had very little to do in the first half, seeing as he job is making it difficult for the opponents once the reach the attacking third mainly. Liverpool were obliging enough to make it difficult for themselves, and Stoke weren't pouring bodies forward at this stage anyway. The second half was completely different, especially the first twenty minutes where I though he got through an awful lot of good work, closing down, interceptions, tackles, etc. All the stuff he gets paid for I suppose.
Me also, I had never realised that our age old historical inability to play the ball out was due to the ill effects of the opposition pressing us high up, along with our lack of technical ability.
Now that I have been made aware, it's certainly a revelation, almost a liberating revelation that has set me free from the bondage of ignorance, just to realise now how opposition teams could come to lansdowne rd, press us high up the pitch and we would end up hoofing or coughing up the ball. The penny had never dropped that our CM and back 4 x might lack the technical wherewithal.

On a more serious note, did you see Glenn shipping that ugly tackle and didn't make the slightest bit of fuss over it, just got up and back into position, his 2nd half performance was excellent.



How does that guy (Sahko) get on the French team by the way?
motm according to the man from the bbc (website) :)

[DeLorean]

motm according to the man from the bbc (website) :)

I've seen him praised elsewhere as well! People love their dramatic last ditch stuff. He made some good blocks, no doubt. He's a total ball watcher, clumsy and unbelievably awkward in possession*. He was poor for (at least) two of Norwich's goals at the weekend and had a horror show in the 3-0 defeat to Watford a few weeks ago, that's just some of the obvious stuff I remember. I have been wondering for a long time why Koscielny and Varane isn't France's preferred partnership but they did ship four goals to Belgium when paired in a friendly. I don't know what their other options are.


*There are some 'successful passes %' stats that contradict this also, but I know what I see!


Yeah I noticed that with Whelan and the tackle, not like 'Big Jon' crying about his torn sock :p

[Charlie Darwin]

If Sakho was Irish we'd love him. A defender in the Richard Dunne mould of being caught out for pace and positioning but saving the day with a desperate lunge.

[Crosby87]

Aren't all lunges rather desperate Charlie? Who plans a lunge? It's implied.

[Charlie Darwin]

Roy Keane planned one or two to my recollection.

[paul_oshea]

Exceptions Charlie exceptions my dear Charlie.

Delorean I know its an inability. Charlie and the boys would have had ye believe it was traps game plan so for 6 years it was ingrained in his psyche, perhaps that he might not be able rid himself of such things. He is just generally very uncomfortable. He improved the last 30 mins which is fair alright but I felt that Stoke were in control around then and I wouldn't have put that down to our dean Glenn.

Walters I thought played well yesterday.

[tricky_colour]

He was very bad last night especially in the first half.he got dispossessed too easily on 3 occasions and a couple of misplaced passes when he actually tried to go forward or sideways. I now realise its an inability under pressure, nothing more nothing less. As usual always going for the easy lass straight back to defence, on one ocassuon if he turned to his left there was space in the middle and a possible counter.he just goes for the simple pass back to the defender....the defender then hoofs it. Defenders look for an out ball, tbey expect the midfielder to turn and move the ball forward not send it back again especially if players around, more often than not this leads to a defender just hoofing it forward - which is what we see so often with Glenn and Ireland


John Stones has been getting some criticism for trying to be a bit to clever for Everton, maybe he should have hoofed it up the pitch rather then passing back to his keeper,
there is a fine line in these things, sometime it is better to err on the side of caution.
I think in the case of Stones his back pass was anticipated which is why it got intercepted, I think Glenn's back passes and be anticipated too
when you play top teams, didn't it happen v Italy or Spain?
It is not good to be too predictable however you play.

[SkStu]

As usual always going for the easy lass

Think we've all been guilty of that.

[Charlie Darwin]

Paul never goes for the easy lass. Prospective lasses are vigorously vetted by all of YBIG before an approach is made. Unfortunately said lass has been gone several hours by then.

[tricky_colour]

Roy Keane planned one or two to my recollection.


Mind you one or two might be classed as premeditated assaults.

[DeLorean]

Delorean I know its an inability. Charlie and the boys would have had ye believe it was traps game plan so for 6 years it was ingrained in his psyche, perhaps that he might not be able rid himself of such things.

Yeah, Trap wasn't responsible for Whelan's limitations but he could definitely be blamed for not attempting to compensate for them, bar the very early days when Steven Reid looked the part.


Think we've all been guilty of that.

Fantastic ;);)

[paul_oshea]

Think we've all been guilty of that.

Class.an odd Croatian lass ;)

[tetsujin1979]

Some numbers from Whelan's 300 appearances at Stoke: http://www.stokecityfc.com/news/article/statto-glenn-whelan-300-3008314.aspx

[third policeman]

I know our management team can hardly be characterized as flexible and imaginative, but is it worth trying Whelan at centre-back? This is a real problem area for us looking at Euro's. Clark - short of game time, Keogh - a disaster waiting to happen, Duffy - untried at this level, Wilson - injured and out of favour at Stoke. Whelan's defensive qualities and positioning sense could make him a decent option, whereas his lack of mobility and limited passing options as a midfield player could actually be a benefit. It would create an opportunity for a McCarthy / Arter central midfield combo which would give us a lot more energy and tempo as well.

For those of us who have been following Ireland for more years than we care to remember there is an interesting precedent. Before the emergence of Lawrenson, Moran, McGrath et al we had a similar dearth of reliable centre back options. Not sure whether it was Giles or Hand who converted Mick Martin into a centre back, and he proved to be a reasonably effective performer.

Whelan's only obvious weakness (apart from not having played there) is lack of height, but this may not be the most relevant consideration against most of our likely opponents.

[Stuttgart88]

No, just no.

[DeLorean]

Did Klopp's Lucas experiment give you this idea Third Policeman? Lucas did play well enough there in fairness even if it way only ever going to be short-term. Clark's alleged lack of game time isn't a concern though, he's played plenty of football this season despite not always being first choice. Keogh scares me too but overall we still have enough options to work with and, more importantly, been defending well enough up until now to avoid doing something as radical as you've suggested. I do like the idea of having more energy in midfield but McCarthy, Hendrick and Hoolahan have provided more of that anyway as the qualification campaign progressed. Daley Blind has played there effectively for Manchester United also but at least he had plenty of experience in a back four and has top class technique and composure on the ball, I don't think anybody could argue the same for our Glenn.

[SkStu]

Mascherano is another that made that move and worked out...

cough cough Roy Keane cough cough...

[Charlie Darwin]

Keogh - a disaster waiting to happen
Hi Paul

[CraftyToePoke]

You know, I have thought and said a lot of things watching GW in green over the years and uttered several two word phrases at his efforts. Never have the words center half been among those though.

[Yard of Pace]

Ireland's Paul Warhurst?




(Nah, just worst)

[tricky_colour]

He is actually not as small as he looks.

[tricky_colour]

Anyhow quite an achievement for Glenn he is basically our highest rank player in terms of league position of the club apart form Long who is not so regular a starter,
And Glenn is captain.

He has taken a lot of flak in his time but much of that has turned to compliments.


I guess his biography might be go something like Alan Partridges "Bouncing Back" with every chapter ending "Needless to say I had the last laugh".



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxZ5AKDvyfU

Steve Coogan who incidently is eligible to play for Ireland although he has scuppered his chances somewhat by not playing in the qualifiers, and at 5' 9.5 he is well short of a solution to the centre back issue.

[OwlsFan]

Ireland's Paul Warhurst?




(Nah, just worst)

Paul Warhurst of Wednesday fame (I use the word lightly) ?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I don't want to sound like a broken record but this guy still worries me.

I thought his performances in Warsaw and the Play-off second leg were not good enough and he is supposed to be the one setting the example, setting the tone, for everyone else.

We really got away with it a couple of times. He put the defence under pressure in a big way several times in Poland - and Keogh, to his credit, recovered very well in one instance.

Against Bosnia, he gave Dzeko lots of freedom outside the box to carve out a chance - something he didn't take advantage of.

Any time he plays anything approaching an adventurous pass it's liable to go anywhere.

In saying that, Hendrick's performances have varied in quality across the campaign.

Perhaps a pity that Arter isn't available so we can see if he lives up to the hype. He is/was probably the next in line and the lad best placed to replace one of them in the team for the next campaign.

[Yard of Pace]

I don't want to sound like a broken record but this guy still worries me.

.

Because he's brutal. I'd love one of our midfield tyros to get in and take his place. I'd struggle to think of a particular attribute they'd fail to match him at.
And can think of many where they'd be much much better, (controlling the ball under no pressure, running, passing the ball 5 yards etc.)

[SwanVsDalton]

Whelan was excellent in the second leg against Bosnia. Plenty thought so at the time too, as the match thread will attest.

[geysir]

It's okay Swan, you don't have to reply, it's just yet another Yard of Pace obsessively-stalking-Welan post.
Replying is futile.

[Yard of Pace]

It's okay Swan, you don't have to reply, it's just yet another Yard of Pace obsessively-stalking-Welan post.
Replying is futile.

I'll stop when he's not in the team anymore. I promise.

But until then.....

[thischarmingman]

Singled out by The Guardian today:


Time for Whelan to get the credit he deserves

Perhaps Glenn Whelan is doing yoga. It seems like an odd image, but the 32-year-old must be doing something. He is immune to injury, and has started all 31 Premier League matches for Stoke this season. The last time he was unavailable for the Republic of Ireland because of injury was November 2014, when he was still recovering from a broken leg (Ireland lost without him that day to Scotland, who dominated the centre of midfield). Despite his remarkable injury record Whelan is not afraid of a tackle and rarely gives the ball away – it is this consistency that makes him so valuable for club and country. New players are brought in (Whelan’s cousin Stephen Gleeson has been called into the squad to face Switzerland and Slovakia for the first time since 2007), others are dropped or withdrawn but this only brings into focus what a stalwart Whelan has become. While he may not be the most celebrated of players, Whelan needs just three more appearances to surpass Liam Brady as the most capped Irish central midfielder of all time – a record he will surely break at Euro 2016. It is high time he started getting a bit more praise. MB



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/24/international-football-10-things-to-look-out-for-in-the-upcoming-matches

[Fixer82]

I seem to recall he recovered very quickly from that broken leg too

[DeLorean]

Kind of a rubbishy passage in my opinion. It's so selective in its information. It conveniently mentions the last time he was unavailable through injury, seeing as it was a negative result against Scotland. How about the last time he was simply unavailable, when we had our best result in over a decade? We were outplayed in Glasgow due to tactical incompetency more than the absence of Whelan, and presumably he is implying that we're not usually outplayed in midfield when Whelan is present, which is beyond nonsense. I'm all for Whelan getting the credit he deserves, but I'm not going to buy into giving him credit he simply doesn't deserve.

[Charlie Darwin]

Get off the fence, DeLorean.

[DeLorean]

I should try to be more diplomatic like YOP. :)

[Fixer82]

He played very well against Scotland at home, bar one dodgy pass out to the wing. We could have done with his calmness in midfield in Galsgow. Hendrick and Gibson seemed off pace and nervous

[DeLorean]

I totally disagree with that but it's been discussed to death both at the time and since so I won't bore folk any further :)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I take your Glenn Whelan absence against Scotland and raise you Glenn Whelan absence against Sweden. A midfield with PAUL GREEN and James McCarthy looked refreshingly productive in just one game together.

The fact that our midfield was non-existent against Poland, largely due to Whelan going missing, and bossed in midfield by a poor Bosnia team in Dublin seems to be be escaping people.

Whelan was also atrocious in all three games in Euro 2012. Andrews was the only central midfielder to emerge with any credit from that tournament. Of course the fact that we were so tactically inferior and poor all over the pitch glosses over his individual inadequacies four years ago.

[geysir]

I totally disagree with that but it's been discussed to death both at the time and since so I won't bore folk any further :) We call that kind of thing "yopping".

[Yard of Pace]

Whelan.....now been mentioned alongside Liam Brady, to go with his previous Michel Platini and Gennaro Gattuso.

Unreal.

[geysir]

Whelan's ball skills in their entirety wouldn't trouble a falling hair from Liam's scalp but that's besides the point, I wouldn't hold that against him.

[Charlie Darwin]

Whelan.....now been mentioned alongside Liam Brady, to go with his previous Michel Platini and Gennaro Gattuso.

Unreal.
Surely as much as you dislike Whelan you can't possibly have a problem with somebody saying 69 and 72 are numerically close to one another.

[DeLorean]

Whelan was also atrocious in all three games in Euro 2012. Andrews was the only central midfielder to emerge with any credit from that tournament. Of course the fact that we were so tactically inferior and poor all over the pitch glosses over his individual inadequacies four years ago.

Agreed. The mad thing is, if for some reason Whelan had missed that tournament, you'd have people convincing themselves that we wouldn't have performed so badly had he been there. It would have showed up how important he is.

[Stuttgart88]

Objection! Speculation.

[DeLorean]

Speculation based on the likes of you saying we would have held out in Glasgow if Whelan was there, in other words, speculation based on speculation :)