Financial Crisis

[pete]

4 of the 10 "outed" by the Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781014.ece) & 2 others seem to be pencilled in.



Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly, Seamus Ross and Jerry Conlan are four of the businessmen who secretly bought 10% of Anglo Irish Bank with the bank’s own cash.

The Sunday Times has been able to ascertain that the following businessmen, some of whom have had dealings with Anglo, are not among the 10 investors: Sean Mulryan, Patrick Doherty, Sean Dunne, Derek Quinlan, Denis O’Brien, JP McManus, John Magnier, Noel Smyth, Michael Whelan, Jim Mansfield, Richard Barrett, Johnny Ronan and Fintan Drury.


I have changed my opinion on this & while the 10 are no saints or heroes the State approved their actions. Brian Cowan, the Central Bank & the Regulator should be the focus of the media queries.

[Reality Bites]

Bertie's canny though, for all his (many, many) faults. Biffo's pig ignorant.

I would be more inclined to say Bertie is a white collar criminal

[OneRedArmy]

Some of you may find this interesting.
Something I've heard quite a few times over the past month or so is that, allegedly (and my sources are pretty good) since the guarantee and re-capitalisation, there have been regular calls from TDs (Government and otherwise) to senior management in the banks, using the public investment as leverage and asking them to go easy on certain named troubled developers and other businesses.

So I'd take the public pronouncements on chasing the Anglo debts with a large mine of salt...

[dahamsta]

I would be more inclined to say Bertie is a white collar criminalYou won't get any argument from me on that. However there's nothing stopping him being both. The problem isn't his cleverness, it's the Irish wink-and-smirk attitude towards the results. The people that tolerate him are nearly as much to blame as the man himself.

[Dodge]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyauaucwqley/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0224/anglo.html

Anglo's HQ raid by "fraud squad"

[pete]

Anglo's HQ raid by "fraud squad"


The raid followed remarks by Transport Minister Noel Dempsey yesterday in which he accused those involved in wrongdoing at the bank of engaging in “economic treason”.

Mr Dempsey said he and his Cabinet colleagues wanted to see the people responsible “pay a price”.

I know everyone has been calling for this to happen for some time now but is the change in government policy suspicious? Why did it take so long for these raids? Surely there should have been officials in Anglo for the last couple of months to ensure they didn't get busy with the sheeders?

It is almost as if the government have found 10 golden scapegoats to deflect attention from themselves. I must say it is working fairly well so far.

:o

[OneRedArmy]

Pete are you suggesting the Gardai and ODCE operate at the behest of Government?

This country has almost no history of complex fraud investigations (tribunals don't count). This is the biggest job the ODCE has tackled by quite a margin, evidenced by the secondment of a large team of gardai to handle the investigative workload.

This is a very positive development IMO. Rome wasn't built in a day and (unfortunately) you can't change the cute hoor culture in one fell swoop. But this is a good first step.

[Wolfie]

I know everyone has been calling for this to happen for some time now but is the change in government policy suspicious? Why did it take so long for these raids? Surely there should have been officials in Anglo for the last couple of months to ensure they didn't get busy with the sheeders?

It is almost as if the government have found 10 golden scapegoats to deflect attention from themselves. I must say it is working fairly well so far.

:o

I'd imagine any recriminating evidence is long gone - if it was ever held there.

Not sure if its cynicism or paranoia - but anyone else get a stage managed vibe to this "Raid"? :confused:

[Macy]

I know everyone has been calling for this to happen for some time now but is the change in government policy suspicious? Why did it take so long for these raids? Surely there should have been officials in Anglo for the last couple of months to ensure they didn't get busy with the sheeders?
I've said it many times, the banks know where too many FF bodies are buried (see their less than full disclosures to the tribunals). Anglo is an exaggerated case in point, because it also financed their builder buddies.

Never mind workers and trade unionists on the street, it's time for a mass protest with a view to a general election.

[OneRedArmy]

I've said it many times, the banks know where too many FF bodies are buried (see their less than full disclosures to the tribunals). Anglo is an exaggerated case in point, because it also financed their builder buddies.

Never mind workers and trade unionists on the street, it's time for a mass protest with a view to a general election.I don't disagree with what you say, and I hope the Greens re-discover their balls soon and force the issue.

But I'm not sure the unions can adopt a holier than thou approach, given the FAS debacle shows that when they are in a position of power they get distracted by having their snouts in the trough.

[Macy]

But I'm not sure the unions can adopt a holier than thou approach, given the FAS debacle shows that when they are in a position of power they get distracted by having their snouts in the trough.
I wouldn't necessarily totally disagree, but then imo social partnership was all about weakening the Trade Union movement. However, I think it's overstated - there's one or two that pop up all over the place as Government appointees.

Off topic, but imo there's definitely a campaign this week to paint the Unions as the bad guy - RTE on Morning Ireland straight on Government message* first thing on Monday with George Lee's rant. I definitely think last week the Government was hiding behing Anglo without naming names, this week it's point at the Unions for what they've done. Just once it's not on them. Shamefully, most of the media and the right wing nut jobs in FG just can't resist.

*If you notice the attitude to Labour politicians after the Irish Times poll as further evidence. They could've been reading Government scrips the way they went after any Labour contributors that week.
*Also, RTE are one of the state bodies exempt from the Pension Levy. They wouldn't want to get the state journalists offside would they?

[pete]

I've said it many times, the banks know where too many FF bodies are buried (see their less than full disclosures to the tribunals). Anglo is an exaggerated case in point, because it also financed their builder buddies...

Surely you are not suggesting the delay was to give them time to reove the evidence?

I firmly believe we now need a General Election. All sides can have a full & frank debate & the people will have their say. It is now the Greens turen but I suppose they need a smoking gun of sorts...

I remember reading an article a few back saying that when banks collapsed in the past (e.g. the US) the bankers raided the safe for IOUs of big customers.These could be "exchanged" at a late date.

[Macy]

I firmly believe we now need a General Election. All sides can have a full & frank debate & the people will have their say. It is now the Greens turen but I suppose they need a smoking gun of sorts...
No doubt. The people must be allowed to decide the approach that is taken.

And the results will indicate whether they want a unity government (as opposed to the suggestion of one without an election to allow FF/ Greens to hide in the long grass while rough decisions are made).

[mypost]

I firmly believe we now need a General Election. All sides can have a full & frank debate & the people will have their say. It is now the Greens turen but I suppose they need a smoking gun of sorts...

Even if the Greens walked, I think FF would have enough independents on board to have the 83 seats.

[superfrank]

I don't think there should be a GE for two reasons.

I don't think FG or Labour or anyone for that matter has any ideas on how to change things around. I doubt anybody really knows what to do about the economic downturn. It's all unchartered water for everyone.

In the 80's there were loads of elections and every time the Gov failed to turn things around, the people voted the opposition in and they struggled as well. If FF go now, FG will come in and they mightn't know what to do and then the people will want FF back in.

I despise FF so I think the longer they stew in this mess and the more their incompetence is to be seen, the more support they'll lose. The more damage FF do for themselves over the next few years, the better.

[mypost]

FF have a plan: Tax, tax, tax, and tax again.

Be it pension taxes, income taxes, airport taxes, car parking taxes, hospital taxes to every single person right across the country, regardless of income. You name it, they've taxed it.

When FG and Labour were last in power, they left office in a healthy state financially, in an export led economy. FF on the other hand decided to bank the state of the economy on the construction industry, and it's associated revenues. Now it's collapsed, everyone has to pay the bill.

Next week, the unemployment figures will reach 350,000 people. Apparantly, the FF priority is to create jobs. How are they creating them? By imposing income taxes on almost every single worker in the country, making it impossible for employers to create jobs, and there are no jobs being created. In the public sector, they announced a public sector recruitment and pay freeze. Then when they finished doing that, they introduced the pension tax on every worker in the public sector. Result: Protests, sit-ins, job losses, industrial disputes.

Everyone has to take the pain. The dole queue people have to live on €200 a week, 10k a year. It covers all personal expenditure, regardless of status. Whether a schoolleaver or a mortgage holder, it's €200 a week. If fortunate to have a job, you're punished for that in the income tax legislation, on top of the standard tax you're already paying. Meanwhile banks are bailed out and nationalised at every turn. Directors and CEO's resign with golden handshakes, while law abiding citizens get the fingers from this government.

There is talk of a national government being suggested. For the sake of democracy and accountability, I resolutely oppose such a proposal. Those in government must be held accountable to Leinster House and this electorate for their actions.

FF have decided to recover the country by taxing everyone in some form. That is not going to stimulate our economy, nor create jobs. Less jobs, means less revenue for the government, and less money spent by the public. Other countries have decided to stimulate their economies by offering tax breaks, and spending programmes. The government hope the economy will continue to stagnate, as they can use it as a selling point to get their precious Treaty passed, that we the people, have already overwhelmingly rejected.

The protest and knock-on effects will not prevent the pension levy bill being passed in the Dail on Thursday. The government don't care about the wishes of the people, they care about votes. As we saw last summer, the only time politicians get upset is when they lose at the ballot box, and FF will continue to wreck the economy until such time as an election is called. Frankly, the Greens are too timid to call FF's bluff, and I can't see an election being called until the current Dail term ends in 3 years time. More misery and hardship for more people on the way.

[Macy]

You're getting it the wrong way round. The problem isn't that FF are going to have to raise taxes, it's that they eroded the tax base so much by relying on consumption taxes rather than income taxes. Taxes will go up whoever wins the election - there's no room for stimulus packages through tax breaks because the tax base is so narrow.

An election would force everyone to produce their 3, 4, 5 year plans for the economy. Most of the problem now is the absence of a plan or a strategy, and a total lack of leadership. People can then decide between the alternatives and take some responsibility for the actions of the Government. I want to see FF die a slow horrible death, but enough is enough - they have to put national interest ahead of their party interest of trying to sit it out in the hope of an improvement.

[monutdfc]

Meanwhile, in what seems like a parallel universe, Mary Harney has just given hospital consultants huge payrises backdated to January:

Harney agrees pay increase for consultants (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0224/1224241710998.html)


"Under the new contract some consultants will see their salaries rise by between €50,000 and €60,000."

[monutdfc]

Even if the Greens walked, I think FF would have enough independents on board to have the 83 seats.
Not anymore. Finian McGrath is no longer on board, Joe Behan has left FF, Seamus Brennan has died, whilst Beverley Flynn re-joined the party. I think Jim McDaid temporarily lost the whip too, but he could be relied upon.
Tony Gregory has also died.

The current state of the parties is:
FF 78 - Behan - Brennan + Flynn = 77 - Ceann Comhairle who has not got a vote = 76
Green 6
PD 2
FF-supporting Inds 4 - 2 (McGrath, Flynn) = 2
Total 86

FG 51
Labour 20
SF 4
Non-aligned independents 2 (McGrath, Behan (who would probably support FF)
Total 77

So if the Greens jumped the government vote would be 80 and the opposition vote would be 83 (or possibly 81 govt and 82 opp depending on what way Behan voted). And there are 2 by-elections to come.

[Macy]

Not anymore. Finian McGrath is no longer on board, Joe Behan has left FF, Seamus Brennan has died, whilst Beverley Flynn re-joined the party. I think Jim McDaid temporarily lost the whip too, but he could be relied upon.
Tony Gregory has also died.
Behan has voted with the Government on everything bar the medical card issue. It was nothing but a stunt by him (he wouldn't want to be upsetting all the developers he took donations from).

However, you are right - the greens pulling out would effectively bring down the Government. Regardless of the numbers, I don't think they could pull it off nationally, and Healy Rae and Lowry would hardly prop them up under the pressure that'd result would they? The Greens will sit it out until june though, to make sure they get their ministerial pensions - they're loving Planet Bertie.

[Fr Damo]

Anyone hear Mary Coughlan on RTE this morning? She said " I think it's important to say" or "I think it is important to state" at least 11 times in a ten minute piece. PR Bull that the public is getting sick of.

I subcribe to the view of this being a national emergency, we need to put people in place who can at least stop the rot before digging us out of this hole. A General election will not help the issue as it is too acute now, but we need that shower out.......fast.

[Macy]

A General election will not help the issue as it is too acute now, but we need that shower out.......fast.
The only way to get them out is a General Election. We could be voting in 3 weeks, Saturday 3 weeks we'd have the results and a new Government - I doubt the Government will have done anything significant in that time anyway, judging by their inaction since the crap hit the fan.

[pete]

My understanding is that in a recession you would normally increase public spending or offer tax breaks. Unfortunately the massive hole in our Finances means can't use the normal approach.

A General Election would allow all parties to propose their economic plans & we can decide which one we want. At least afterwards the government would have the backing of the majority & the bickering might take a break.

[Macy]

At least afterwards the government would have the backing of the majority & the bickering might take a break.
They'd have a mandate to carry out what they were elected on.

[Fr Damo]

The only way to get them out is a General Election. We could be voting in 3 weeks, Saturday 3 weeks we'd have the results and a new Government - I doubt the Government will have done anything significant in that time anyway, judging by their inaction since the crap hit the fan.

But is that not the day Begg wants us out Marching?? Joking aside, three weeks more of this and you could be looking at a situation where the deposits being withdrawn from the bank at a rate of ten billon in the last week, the same week 7 billon was depostited by Biffo. No one will touch us now never mind in three weeks, who in the right mind would buy a bond in an Irish Bank while this lot and the bankers are in situ. This is getting worse by the day.

[tetsujin1979]

Friend of mine sent me this, a bit simplistic but it explains the situation well to the likes of me: http://vimeo.com/3261363

[pete]

Who do we believe? :confused:


Addressing the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service in Dublin today Mr Lenihan also said Irish banks can withstand their losses and have adequate reserves following the Government's recapitalisation plan which see €3.5 billion of capital injected into AIB and Bank of Ireland.



Citigroup has suggested that the State’s two largest banks Bank of Ireland and AIB are likely to require a combined total of almost €3 billion in extra capital due to the size of their impaired loans.

[dahamsta]

Traffic is very definitely lighter in Cork since the start of the year, both myself and the wife have noticed it and we generally travel at completely different times of the day.

adam

[pete]

Click (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0227/breaking11.htm)



According to RTÉ radio, which did not cite sources, a consortium of Irish and foreign investors have been in discussions with Government and the National Treasury Management Agency about taking a majority stake in Anglo and by investing €5 billion.


Given how bad the state finances it may be difficult to turn down any reasonable offer. I suppose not a bad deal if have 5 billion lying around with government guarantee & recapitalisation. I think 5 billion would buy a large part of Anglo?

[OneRedArmy]

Click (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0227/breaking11.htm)



Given how bad the state finances it may be difficult to turn down any reasonable offer. I suppose not a bad deal if have 5 billion lying around with government guarantee & recapitalisation. I think 5 billion would buy a large part of Anglo?Pete, I think you're right that the state of Govt finances will dictate whether it's accepted.

Anglo as a lending institution is done. It's brand is irretrievable. The only potential value left in the business is working through the loans, one by one, and working out the bad ones over a period of many years (seizing collateral etc.). Obviously to make a profit at this, the consortium must value the loanbook higher than the Government.

So whilst Anglo is finished to new business, there certainly is a value to the run-off business.

[pete]

So whilst Anglo is finished to new business, there certainly is a value to the run-off business.

I was looking a few days ago & I am open to correct but it seems like Anglo offering the best Savings A/c Rates. Interesting to see they offer both sterling & US dollar savings accounts - is that an indication of shady practice?

Given what we know now seems fairly clear Anglo would have collapsed if no state guarantee. Would have queues outside the bank when recent scandals emerged.

[OneRedArmy]

Offering Sterling and Dollar deposits is kosher. Offering the best rates in the Market when you're a semi-state is unfair and anti-competitive.

Anglo should have it's banking license taken away and be shut to new business immediately.

[dahamsta]

To be fair, they were offering the best interest rates on the market long before they were nationalised, 6% several months ago when BOI and AIB were offering 3-4%, and the "newcomers" were offering 4-5.5%. If they changed their rates now, they could be accused of playing games too. They're probably better off with the status quo, if they can handle it of course.

EDIT: The rates are higher now on itsyourmoney.ie, but I'm pretty sure what I've quoted above is correct. Either way, I am certain Anglo had the best rate going back 4-6 months.

adam

[OneRedArmy]

Adam the same reason that had them offering the highest interest rates was exactly the reason they were nationalised, a chronic lack of ready cash (liquidity). They had such high rates as they needed the cash quickly.

They shouldn't be allowed to accept another cent in deposits or write another euro of loans. They are an anchor dragging down a banking sector that already had enough holes in it.

[Poor Student]

Interesting to see they offer both sterling & US dollar savings accounts - is that an indication of shady practice?


How do you ration that? You can set up these with the AIB and BOI and probably the other banks too.

[OneRedArmy]

By holding deposits in foreign currencies you reduce interest rate and foreign exchange risk on your foreign denominated loans.

Standard banking practice globally.

[dahamsta]

I don't agree ORA, the few savings accounts they get are going to make feck all difference. I think there should be a full, immediate investigation. Due process. Not a tribunal that last years of course, but a fast criminal investigation by the Gardaí and the Revenue. I think the Gardaí have already been in there?

adam

[RonnieB]

The complete mismanagement of the EU waste storage scheme for farmers was another disaster for the area I work in. Work in a family run business, we supply primarily agricultural buildings. There seems to have been no one keeping a count on the amount of people who applied for and went ahead under the grant aid scheme for these buildings, no money to pay the grants, people paying huge interest on bridging loans. Now some are getting 40% of the total and the promise of more in the future..

It has tied up the sector now as the farmers havent the cash to spend on jobs that would normally be done this time of year such as roofing in between buildings etc, extra pieces added to existing buildings and whatnot.

In what im sure is a simplistic view to those more in the know that this bogger surely the 300m required to cover the outstanding payments could have been taken from the 7bn bailout. It would all have been going back to the banks anyway and wiping out the loans currently out to the farming community..

And before anyone starts with the "farmers this , farmers that" trust me I know where yere coming from but thats a debate for another day!

[pete]

And before anyone starts with the "farmers this , farmers that" trust me I know where yere coming from but thats a debate for another day!

When I see see farmers mentioned all I can think of is compliants about less hand outs. I know its a prejudice but I would guess many people think the same way.

So Tax increases will be on the way sooner or later. What taxes do people feel with changed?

VAT - Can't increase that as already high
PAYE - Few percent on the top rate?
Property - Historically not popular. Would this slow the recovery of residential property? If exempt values below a certain amount would it bring in enough to be worth while? Would inevitably have pensioners complaining as they have small pension but living in valuable house.
Excise - Alcohol, Fuel, Tobacco. Would it bring in that much?
VRT - With retail car industry collapsing could not increase.
Corporation tax - Hard to touch as big selling point to attract foreign investment.

[Macy]

Should be on Pay, and scrap the Income Levy whilst they are at it (and add it back into the tax brakets).

Close loopholes and get strict on the tax exiles.

Have a minimum tax payment for those using avoidance measures to pay nothing.

Property taxes are inevitably regressive, but at least in most countries any such tax includes services such as bin collection, and other budgets that are in the control of councillors. Arguably the biggest unelected quango squandering billions are the county managers who are virtually untouchable.

They'll probably reduce stamp duty and VAT on new houses along with a property tax with the aim of bailing out developers, I mean to "get the market moving".

Property Tax/ Stamp Duty reduction would be yet another hit on the people stuck with massive mortgages and negative equity. Could be a tipping point for a lot of people.

[pete]

Should be on Pay, and scrap the Income Levy whilst they are at it (and add it back into the tax brakets).

I don't disagree with that but FF won;t do that. Easier to have a 1% levy than say 3% hike in top rate of tax as it doesn't look as bad.

FF policy seems to be a wait & see approach. i.e. wait til the actually see tax revenues reduced rather than anticpate.

[Macy]

FF policy seems to be a wait & see approach. i.e. wait til the actually see tax revenues reduced rather than anticpate.
Wait and see who we can pass the buck to more like - in this case the Taxation Commission. They'd rather the IMF come in than actually formulate a plan themselves, either that or the National Government their stooges in the press keep floating so then it can be the blue shirts fault.

[pete]

I can't think why any one would suggest a National government as they might as well close the Dail. Now that I think fo it...

[OneRedArmy]

Listening to Noel Dempsey's Cromwell rant if you didn't know the history you'd assume FF had just come into power.

Disappointing that the media haven't highlighted the absolute hypocrisy of FF lecturing anyone on morality and greed.

You've got to hand it to them, at this stage they clearly believe they are infallible.

[pete]

Mitchelstown Credit Union (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0303/breaking26.htm)



The Mitchelstown Credit Union in Co Cork, one of the largest in the State, has been instructed to cease lending to businesses as its financial stability is under threat.

The instruction to stop lending to businesses came from the Financial Regulator's Registrar of Credit Unions, Brendan Logue, who wrote to the Michelstown Credit Union recently to raise concerns about its performance which "threaten the financial stability of the credit union".

According to a letter from February 17th, excerpts of which were published in today’s Irish Examiner , Mr Logue said: “A run on members savings took place last year and it is clear that the credit union would have difficulty surviving a repeat of this.”


Even Credit Unions not immune to Financial problems. However bad the banking regulation has turned out to be I wouldn't be too confident all the Credit Unions squakey clean.

[Macy]

The Financial Regulator goes after the small fry. Independent Insurance Brokers and Credit Unions are the only ones they've ever "clamped down on", but the banks were all fine and dandy. :rolleyes:

I would think most Credit Unions are fine, as loans are based on shares held. I think I heard on Newstalk at lunch a bloke from the Irish League of Credit Unions that credit unions in Ireland have a 2:1 loan ratio i.e. for every €50 out on loan they have a €100 in shares, including Mitchelstown at their last spot check. And wasn't there some confusion to what extent Credit Unions were covered (or not) when the Government were doing the stupid Bank Guarantee which could've provoked the run? I trust the board of my credit union, who I elect, more than the bloody bankers anyway.

Mind you, the cynic in me would suggest this is another stroke. Sow the seeds that Credit Unions aren't safe and provoke a run on them, and people are frightened into moving their money into banks, who just happen to be desperate for capital.

[pete]

Irish Life & Permanent Results (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0304/breaking9.htm)


Irish Life & Permanent (ILP) chairwoman Gillian Bowler has apologised “unreservedly” for the movement of over €7 billion in deposits between the lender and Anglo Irish Bank last year.

Speaking as ILP reported a larger-than-expected 42 per cent drop in full-year operating profit this morning of €341 million for 2008, Ms Bowler said the ILP board had not known about the provision of short-tem loans of €7.5 billion to Anglo Irish to bolster Anglo Irish’s books at its year-end last September.

“The transactions were wrong. The Board did not approve them . . . didn’t know about them and [the Board] certainly would not have committed had we known about them,” Ms Bowler said on RTE’s Morning Ireland programme.

I don't think those apologies mean much when the Board initially rejected the attempt by CEO to resign.
I suppose when the face of your company adverts is a gangster character... :p

Latest Public Finance Figures (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0304/1224242233221.html)



The exchequer figures portray a devastating decline in State receipts, with annual takings set to be up to €12 billion less than calculated in the Budget. New taxation methods are the answer

Tax receipts in the January-February period were just under €5.8 billion. This compares with €7.6 billion in the same period of last year, a decline of 24 per cent.

Typically, the first two months account for about one-sixth of receipts for the full year. On this basis, tax revenue for 2009 might amount to €35 billion. That would be €2 billion short of the Government’s revised projection of early January, the projection upon which the revised official target of a budget deficit of €17 billion (9.5 per cent of gross domestic product or GDP) for the year was based.


I hope the Dept of Finance have a hot line to the IMF. Our country is like someone with a wallet full of maxed out credit cards.

[mypost]

The IMF will be hitting the Eastern European countries first. They all have their own currencies. It'll be a while longer before they are called to the Eurozone, if it gets that far. We've had recessions before in this country, the IMF wasn't called in last time despite how severe it was. It is last resort territory, and broke as we are, we're not at IMF stage yet.

We're still in a position to revive our own economy, if it's handled correctly. Further increased taxes are not the way to go about it. More tax = job cuts = less money = less revenue in a wheel.

The Japanese government have come up with a unique spending programme whereby everyone is given $200 to spend as they wish, in order to get the economy going again. It's better than anything I've seen from our government yet.

[pete]

We're still in a position to revive our own economy, if it's handled correctly. Further increased taxes are not the way to go about it. More tax = job cuts = less money = less revenue in a wheel.

I would normally agree with due to the scale of the problem it can't be avoided. It is important that government spending is cut alone side the taxes. The state should also start selling the family silver (i.e. state assets.) so it has money to spend on core role like education, police etc...

In the old days we had a smaller government & could devalue our own currency.

[dahamsta]

The current government isn't qualified to sell lighters in Henry Street, never mind state assets. Look at the hash they made of Eircom ffs, can you imagine what we'd end up with if they sold off the ESB?!

The current governement needs to stand aside and let Fine Gael and Labour clean up after them. Again.

adam