Eligibility proposal

[Hibernian]

The red of the St. Patrick's Cross (the saltire, or "X") represents Ireland and is actually the arms of the FitzGerald family.
The blue of the inverse saltire of the St. Andrews Cross represents Scotland. The origin of the blue isn't properly known, but Picts (one of few actual Briton tribes in history) painted themselves blue with woad before battle and i'd imagine they continued this tradition on when things became more civilised than fighting in nothing more than battle paint.
The red cross of the St. George's Cross represents England and is owed, ironically, to the Pope and to France. The Pope awarded each crusading nation a distinguishing shield; he gave France a red cross on a white flag, and england the reverse, a red flag with a white cross. However, the English preferred France's white purity and used that same flag anyway; and by the time the idea of flags and colours really took hold of nationalism, France had swapped to the tricolour anyway, nulling any possible clash of the old rivals over who got to keep the St. George's cross.

Interesting is Wales' omission.

Cool cheers

[Drumcondra 69er]

The red of the St. Patrick's Cross (the saltire, or "X") represents Ireland and is actually the arms of the FitzGerald family.
The blue of the inverse saltire of the St. Andrews Cross represents Scotland. The origin of the blue isn't properly known, but Picts (one of few actual Briton tribes in history) painted themselves blue with woad before battle and i'd imagine they continued this tradition on when things became more civilised than fighting in nothing more than battle paint.
The red cross of the St. George's Cross represents England and is owed, ironically, to the Pope and to France. The Pope awarded each crusading nation a distinguishing shield; he gave France a red cross on a white flag, and england the reverse, a red flag with a white cross. However, the English preferred France's white purity and used that same flag anyway; and by the time the idea of flags and colours really took hold of nationalism, France had swapped to the tricolour anyway, nulling any possible clash of the old rivals over who got to keep the St. George's cross.

Interesting is Wales' omission.

Wlaes' omission is interesting alright, is this down to the fact that Wales was considered a pricipilaity prior to their act of Union so it was a different situation to the unions with Scotland and Ireland?

Funilly enough the St Patrick's Cross was never an official flag prior to it's addition to the union flag but had been used unofficially for years.

Regardless of what it stands for, is it just me or is the Union Jack a dreadful flag aesthetically? Too much going on in it for me, hurts the eyes!

[lopez]

This is all getting out of hand. I'm off to ChavSDA for my christmas dinner - mad queues at Tescos. If this thread isn't locked by tomorrow. If it does, Merry Xmas to all of you (Seasons Greetings to the atheists), including Blanchflower, NB, EG, Absinthe and GR.

[GavinZac]

Wlaes' omission is interesting alright, is this down to the fact that Wales was considered a pricipilaity prior to their act of Union so it was a different situation to the unions with Scotland and Ireland?

There wasn't really any "union" with wales, more an annexation. There wasn't any formal ceremonial adherence of the 2 areas of England and Wales; wales were simply a defeated party, the same as Cornwall.

The union with scotland took place peacefully as a combination of the thrones under James, and the Union flag was representative of that.

[GavinZac]

This is all getting out of hand. I'm off to ChavSDA for my christmas dinner - mad queues at Tescos. If this thread isn't locked by tomorrow. If it does, Merry Xmas to all of you (Seasons Greetings to the atheists), including Blanchflower, NB, EG, Absinthe and GR.

I think the thread may be slightly off topic, alright. No worries, the topic has been flogged to death.

[Not Brazil]

If this thread isn't locked by tomorrow. If it does, Merry Xmas to all of you (Seasons Greetings to the atheists), including Blanchflower, NB, EG, Absinthe and GR.

Seasons Greetings to your goodself Lopez.

[Drumcondra 69er]

This is all getting out of hand. I'm off to ChavSDA for my christmas dinner - mad queues at Tescos. If this thread isn't locked by tomorrow. If it does, Merry Xmas to all of you (Seasons Greetings to the atheists), including Blanchflower, NB, EG, Absinthe and GR.

Seconded, Happy Christmas to all including our friends in the North!

[Blanchflower]

Interesting is Wales' omission.

Officially Wales is represented by the St George's Cross, since the Kingdom of England included Wales, whereas Scotland and Ireland were separate kingdoms.

[Blanchflower]

Happy Christmas, everyone.

[Cymro]

The Union Flag couldn't suck more even if it was on the suckiest day of its life and had an electified sucking machine.

We aren't on it because it all harks back to the 1532 Act of Union which meant we were legally represented by the St. George cross. And it remains that way to this day despite the fact that Wales now has significant autonomy thanks to devolution to the national Assembly.

[GavinZac]

had an electified sucking machine.

I have one of those

[kingdomkerry]

bah humbug!

[kingdomkerry]

Rather obviously, either ...

1. Neutral flag and anthem at all matches.

2. Two flags and two anthems at all matches.

1. I would'nt be in favour.

2. This would be fine.

However there is a problem, In the 26 counties the Irish tricolour and Aramhan na Bhfiann are representative of the entire population.

This is not the case in the North , the "NI flag" is not representative of the entire population (50% only). The nationalist community cannot and will not identify with the crown.

Similarly the same argument can be made for GSTQ.

So when the official flag and anthem in the north are representative of both communities I for one will have no problem with both being flown and sung at Ireland rugby games.

If northern protestants want a level playing field (although they only represent 20% of the people) they must take the first step.

[GavinZac]

However there is a problem, In the 26 counties the Irish tricolour and Aramhan na Bhfiann are representative of the entire population.

they are?

[Not Brazil]

However there is a problem, In the 26 counties the Irish tricolour and Aramhan na Bhfiann are representative of the entire population.

There is a problem - The Ireland rugby team does not solely represent the "26 Counties".

[kingdomkerry]

they are?

OK there are many thousands of foreign nationals living in Ireland but these people are hardly going to argue with irish anthems and flags.

[kingdomkerry]

There is a problem - The Ireland rugby team does not solely represent the "26 Counties".

I never said it did?

[osarusan]

[INDENT]

In the 26 counties the Irish tricolour and Aramhan na Bhfiann are representative of the entire population.

This is not the case in the North , the "NI flag" does not representative of the entire population (50% only). The nationalist community cannot and will not identify with the crown.

Won't the nationalist community already be represented by the tricolour and Amhrann na Bhfiann?

[kingdomkerry]

They will, but GSTQ and the union jack are not acceptable to 46% of the people in the 6 counties. How can it be acceptable to people in the 26 counties?

A Northern Ireland flag and anthem and flag acceptable to all is what is needed, not British symbolism being forced down the throat of the people of Ireland after an 800 year conflict with so so much opression inflicted on the Irish people under this symbolism.

[GavinZac]

They will, but GSTQ and the union jack are not acceptable to 46% of the people in the 6 counties. How can it be acceptable to people in the 26 counties?

A Northern Ireland flag and anthem and flag acceptable to all is what is needed, not British symbolism being forced down the throat of the people of Ireland after an 800 year conflict with so so much opression inflicted on the Irish people under this symbolism.

Oh give it a rest. Who gives a damn what happened for 800 years. Christ you'd swear the british had us out in the fields for them today. Why should a song about some old lady be any more offensive than our song about killing Saxons?