QuoteI assumed when I saw the headline that it was gonna be a ****take article. How wrong I was!Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Just saw that this morning. You'd despair.
I assumed when I saw the headline that it was gonna be a ****take article. How wrong I was!
As painful as that was to read and as bad as the comments were also to read... My ire was mostly reserved for the use of pictures:
http://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2014/0...um-630x415.jpg
In that useless post they managed to post a bar from Semple Stadium... could they not find a picture of a bar from a pub? FFS! I despair!
I copped the "Fir" in the toilet sign of the top left and that was that. Morons.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
As I always say - Ireland is the worst country in Europe to be a football fan. Uh....
I thought some of you might find some interesting parallels here. The match he talks about finished 3-2 to Juventus:
Here's the interesting article:Their 3-2 loss, which came on the back of two late goals within five minutes of each other, in reality, was almost one of the greatest upsets we have seen in Australian football. This is a side who have been assembled for the best part of a week, who had the audacity to play an attacking brand of football against Juventus, the Serie A giants, champions over the last three seasons in one of the best football leagues in the world.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/a...#ixzz3A8b0k0Hl
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...stars-juventus
Brian is an Arsenal fan, even though he lives in Newtown and he’s never actually been to Highbury or the Emirates Stadium. Brian was also a Barcelona fan for a few seasons, and he went through a Palmeiras phase after that two-for-one sale at the Adidas Originals store. He doesn’t care much for the local game, so you do your best to explain.
Along a similar vein, we have a German fella staying with us at present, he's from Bremen but supports Bayern München.
Same country, granted, but the guts of 600km distance.
Supporting non-local teams happens more than we probably imagine.
Does he support his local side too?
Mate of mine from Vigo supporters Barcelona but also his hometown club. He says it's very common for Spanish people to support their own club and one of the big two.
Nope. And it's not like Werder Bremen are a small team or anything.
Have you ever won the treble?
The 'fans' that annoy me the most are the clowns that, never having been to Manchester, Liverpool, London etc, still insist on using 'we' to describe an EPL teamreally makes me want to bludgeon them to death with the nearest TV. Usually resist the urge to kill (no guarantee of future performance
as the banks say) but have to ask if their name is Glazer, Henry or Abramovich.
........its the little things that keep you sane(ish)
the "we" stuff gets me everytime.
Also when Irish liverpool and united"fans" call one another mancs and scousers. Makes me want to throw up all over them
No worse again is when they call each other "Manc scum" or "scouse scum".
Sure, the examples desaintsno.12, Jofspring and yourself highlight are curious and peculiarly Irish phenomena, and I'm not particularly fond of the hyper-commercial ethos that now permeates modern football at the expense of the communal one, but that's an awful lot of repressed anger you've got there. Why do you hate so much people who simply have an interest in something other than what you're interested in? Of what use is such pent-up aggression and what business is it of yours if other people want to shamelessly consume a brand? Is it your way of reassuring yourself you're better than them?The 'fans' that annoy me the most are the clowns that, never having been to Manchester, Liverpool, London etc, still insist on using 'we' to describe an EPL team
........its the little things that keep you sane(ish)
Ah Danny.
The main reason that an LOI fan might seem to be more angry or annoyed or seemingly feel a sense of superiority is because we are witnessing the slow demise of soccer in our country.
The LOI is dying as is the IL. Werder Bremen will be fine without that one odd fan who supports Bayern. Shels and Bohs and Harps and Derry however...
I have no care for who anyone supports. It doesn't really affect my day-to-day living but whe you see the stupid "lifestyle" of Irish EPL supporting fans it just makes you weep for what could be.
I mean the dismissal of the entire national league of a country doesn't happen ANYWHERE else. At least Barca and Bayern are located in the countries of the above mentioned people.
The supporting of Madrid and Barca right across Spain usually occurs in conjunction with the local team and I see no harm in that generally.
So yes, Marinobohs is better than them. As I am and Dodge and Nigel and PartySaint and LTID and Osa and Jofsping and dong and redobit and SkStu and Longfordian and SamHeggy...
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
You say the LOI is dying, but is that not a Shels fan talking?
I can only follow the LOI from a laptop but what I'm picking up on is a strong vibe from Cork and Dundalk and Rovets, Pats and Sligo are well placed to push on in the years ahead. I think the LOI is in a better place than 20 years ago. Maybe not 10 years ago but costs are more realistically managed now.
Anyway, my Berlin mate is a Bayern fan. He claims also to be a Hertha fan.
I think it's ok for fans from non-elite football nations to have a team they support in a big league. I do hate when that's all they support though. I think the Scandies are quite good at supporting local football whilst also looking to the big leagues for a bit of vicarious big time football action. I think the Irish are particularly rubbish. I think it's odd that a German from a big city can claim to be a fan of two top flight teams from big cities, less odd than a guy from the regions following only a big city club.
To be honest, only supporting one team makes more sense to me. I can't imagine supporting two clubs in the same league, or even league set-up. Shamrock Rovers B is an exception obviously.
The LOI isn't dying but it's been on life support for years. The stadiums are dilapidated and there are several generations that deride it for what it's not rather than appreciating it for what it is. In Tallaght, at least, there's been a clear shift in support from older fellas from the Milltown days to kids, which hopefully bodes well for the future, but I'm not sure how it is at other clubs.
Irish football dying is not just at league of Ireland level it's right across the board and most would prefer to just go on supporting English clubs across the water, pumping big money into the English game all the while ignoring all the problems that are here. The same people will then whinge that Ireland isn't producing good enough players anymore and that the international team is suffering.
I've absolutely no problem with people supporting the bigger clubs, who doesn't want to see the best players playing at the highest level, but getting in a few Loi matches here and there would go along way to an Irish team but would be fairly insignificant to the bigger clubs.
As you know, there's an emotional side of me that strongly sympathises, if not wants to conveniently agree, with a lot of what you say, but I think the anger is misdirected and counter-productive. It's terribly regrettable that the game in Ireland is the way it is. It is a great shame; a national shame. But surely to feel angry towards someone for what they happen to take an interest in, simply because it's not in line with what you're interested in yourself, is to selfishly or expectantly assume, or at least imply, that they somehow owe you something or that they exist to serve your interests to some degree? In any scenario, there will always be elements that we can't control. To speak rather generally for a moment, shifting blame onto those factors/people and vocalising them as excuses is vindictive, irresponsible and, ultimately, a surrendering of personal/collective power and an acceptance of impotence. How can someone who owes you and your passion nothing in the first place be held responsible for the demise of said passion? The upkeep and maintenance of your passion is not their burden. It is the responsibility of the self-declared and recognised patrons of that passion. If there is anger to be directed, it ought to be (constructive anger) directed towards those patrons, who should also be willing to admit that their negligence, failure to take initiative and habitual inability to learn from their errors has indeed proved detrimental.
I'd love it if the broad Irish public got behind the entire Irish game, but they do have a choice, whether we like it or not, so it's about winning them over and trying to welcome them under the umbrella. It's a voluntary matter for them; becoming interested parties. There are no obligations or duties. If trying to win them over doesn't work, try again and try harder. There's little point in shunning them, abusing them and condemning them to their alleged national and intellectual inferiority. In what way could that ever be productive? Trying to shame them for who they are? The rather bi-polar position of playing their victim whilst simultaneously claiming their national and intellectual superior breeds nothing but animosity and contempt.
"They're the problem." "We aren't wrong." "It is someone else's fault." "We are superior." They're all unhelpful attitudes. It takes me back to a quote by the missed Sullivinho (where did he go anyway?) from the eligibility thread back in the day. To adapt it and render it relevant here, it could be rephrased as:
Curiosities and contradiction abound when trying to explain the inexplicable. Family? Ignorance? Inferiority? Stupidity? Extraterrestrial mind control? All possibilities. What is absolutely beyond doubt is no one should ever, ever have an issue supporting the League of Ireland. That is the axiom from which all further reasoning must proceed.
And so we mocked IFA intransigence and presumptuousness along such lines. We advised that the IFA should sort out their own house before shifting the blame for their perceived problems onto others. The quote embodies a familiar defeatist mindset, so why should we tolerate such psychological evasion to the detriment of our national league, just because it's convenient to shift the blame? When someone engages in such evasion and delusion, they should be pulled up on it, because it's not doing the league any favours and causes only further damage. It lets those responsible off the hook.
I agree that that represents a glaring contradiction in the declared interests of many football fans in Ireland. We can only hope that the greater number of League of Ireland players contributing to the fortunes (hopefully not misfortunes...) of the national side opens more eyes to the crucial importance of a stronger national league, especially with the numerical downturn of Irish players participating in the upper echelons of the English game. Educating people (as intellectual equals) when the opportunity arises and explaining to them why, in your opinion, their declared interests are seemingly incongruous and self-defeating (without being condescending or assuming that they must be imbecilic ignoramuses to think the inexplicable way do) is a good start. I speak generally, by the way, and am not referring to you specifically, Jofspring.
As an aside, it's not something I've theorised about or pondered about in any great detail (so would, of course, appreciate the thoughts of others on it), but I've often thought that the lack of a widespread industrial revolution, and resultant urbanisation, in Ireland has historically contributed to the country's poor to virtually non-existent national footballing infrastructure and culture. Ireland was the exception in Europe during the age of industrialisation and remained primarily agrarian whilst the rest of Europe steamrolled into the next century. In the UK and other European states, the stronger football teams almost exclusively grew out of urban working-class communities living around the thriving factories in the new industrial centres. Ireland's society and national identity has been very much a rural one, historically, with that identity rooted very much in the concept of the agricultural parish. The attempted (or half-hearted, even) Gaelicisation/de-Anglicisation of Ireland towards and post-independence, no doubt, didn't help the development of the "foreign game" either.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 13/08/2014 at 12:25 AM.
I can guarantee you it will do the opposite. You can have Seamus Colemans coming out your arse but there will always be a substantial portion of Irish people who genuinely think they could play for Drogheda United or Shelbourne. 80% of this country is lost to the LOI and will never have their heads turned. There is a small (young) minority who might buy in but they have to be given an experience they can buy into and bring their friends along with them.
Disinterest can admittedly be pretty stubborn but I don't think that's a necessary truth to which we should just automatically resign ourselves. There's a way to win people over. It just hasn't been successfully tried yet, evidently. Has it really been tried en masse at all? How did football gain such popularity in the US recently, for example? Was there a concerted campaign (obviously in line with the World Cup)? I can't imagine it was purely spontaneous. Gradually winning over people can help; the sense that something is popular can be a very powerful and contagious tool. There is a way to crack it. It'll just require a bit of imagination.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 13/08/2014 at 6:04 AM.
If Irish football is dying how come the girls game seems to be thriving? u19s, Raheny United?
I think the lack of top quality coming through is largely because the bar has been raised so high now and because the traditional destination for our best talent is now looking under rocks in the North Pole, its recruitment reach is that vast.
Yes, there are issues with the shape of the game, coaching standards, coaching and infrastructure investment etc. but it's too extreme to say the game is dying.
I still think the game has a very strong foundational structure but emotionally / psychologically the public want to attach to the nearby "major league" variety. It's the BIRGing / CORFing thing I referred to earlier in another thread.
I do agree with Danny though, there are ways to win people over.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 13/08/2014 at 12:31 PM.
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