PCA League Proposal

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2017, 12:03 PM

If it would help the lower first division clubs to reduce travel costs for starters.

It would mean any clubs who have ambitions to get promoted can do so without the huge change that now entails (leaving your league, changing season, high probability of going bust). If they're happy where they are, fine.

Why should the MSL/LSL/USL be asked to be part of the LoI? There shouldn't be a divide in the first place. It's daft. Get rid - but respect the MSL/LSL/USL's identity and history and make as few changes ax possible.

But new clubs need to be encouraged, and cost reduction for existing clubs would help too. The current format does neither.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 05/01/2017, 12:04 PM

Are the play-offs gone for good though? Where does it say they've been permanently scrapped? I would have thought they'd make a return in 2018 when the split was finalized. Certainly, if the old format was kept 30% of FD clubs in a ten team league would be in the promotion picture at seasons end, which wouldn't be bad. I vaguely recall one of the reports mooting a group stage affair between PD's 8/9th and FD's 2/3rd to determine promotion.

And if the play-offs were still retained - beyond the coming season, the absence of which I've noted elsewhere is a bad idea - would the FD clubs still have the same level of objection to a ten/ten split?

In regards the objections to a regionalized First Division, I'd be happy with anything that would get new clubs involved in the LOI to be honest. They'll never get the chance to grow into top tier capable clubs without a baby steps approach.

**ForzaHoop** · 05/01/2017, 12:47 PM

Won't lash up article from SUN as they are liars

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2017/01/...e-be-scrapped/

**bluewhitearmy** · 05/01/2017, 12:53 PM

......

**Mr A** · 05/01/2017, 12:53 PM

Would imagine the playoffs will return- but even removing them for one year could be the straw that breaks the camels back for a division one club. With Waterford splashing the cash with the aim of getting up, the likes of Cobh and Wexford who have made great strides could find themselves adrift.

Between that and the failure to give D1 teams a vote, the complete lack of transparency and the general way this was done (late in the day when budgets etc are set) and presented make it one of the biggest betrayals I can recall in Irish football. It is an outright disgrace.

**bluewhitearmy** · 05/01/2017, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

If it would help the lower first division clubs to reduce travel costs for starters.

It would mean any clubs who have ambitions to get promoted can do so without the huge change that now entails (leaving your league, changing season, high probability of going bust). If they're happy where they are, fine.

Why should the MSL/LSL/USL be asked to be part of the LoI? There shouldn't be a divide in the first place. It's daft. Get rid - but respect the MSL/LSL/USL's identity and history and make as few changes ax possible.

But new clubs need to be encouraged, and cost reduction for existing clubs would help too. The current format does neither.

If they were promoted they would still have to change leagues from lets say basically the MSL to the premier which then involves higher travelling costs. How is the possibility of going bust reduced for teams coming from MSL to premier than it is going from first to premier? To me it seems just changing season is what is different going from a regional first to prem than the current first to prem.

Why should they be asked? You are not suggesting we try and force teams to be part of LOI are you? Below is a list of the current MSL teams according to the website I am not 100% sure but I think all of them are from Cork if not all then a vast majority? Of those teams listed the places I have been to don't have facilites anywhere near up to scratch so. Anyone in around Cork know if any of them actually do have decent facilites? Imagine the standard of one of the teams if we were to have 3 or 4 teams from Cork all in the regional first division and fine you can come back and say spread the clubs better across Munster but who do we force to join then if there is no interest still? College Corinthians
Cobh Wanderers
Douglas Hall
Avondale United
St Marys
UCC
Ringmahon Rangers
Mayfield United
Castleview
Rockmount

**gufct** · 05/01/2017, 1:42 PM

The pyramid leagues feeding into 16 team premier not a regionalised 1st division. Strict licensing criteria for all teams and no bypassing it .

**El-Pietro** · 05/01/2017, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Between that and the failure to give D1 teams a vote, the complete lack of transparency and the general way this was done (late in the day when budgets etc are set) and presented make it one of the biggest betrayals I can recall in Irish football. It is an outright disgrace.

All clubs are welcome to a vote, the fans can all have individual votes, I think we should ask Trump what he thinkgs too. Won't matter. The FAI decide.

**Real ale Madrid** · 05/01/2017, 2:41 PM

Does anyone have a link to the actual PCA report?

**sbgawa** · 05/01/2017, 3:33 PM

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 1,627 (1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488; 1,835; 2,366)
Bray - 957 (769; 718; 891; 965; 1,121; 952; 1,169)
Cork - 2,533 (3,263; 3,777; 1,965; 2,786; 2,128 FD; 1,693 FD; 2,681)
Derry - 1,563 (1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135; 1,965 FD; 2,436)
Dundalk - 2,738 (3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355; 1,877; 2,371)
Galway - 1,169 (1,290; 975 FD)
Harps - 1,216 (784 FD; 449 FD; 479 FD; 429 FD; 433 FD; 644 FD; 480 FD) -
Longford - 488 (803; 567 FD; 379 FD; 365 FD; 315 FD; 230 FD; 260 FD)
Pat's - 1,088 (1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346; 1,756; 1,631)
Rovers - 2,041 (2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779; 3,794; 3,611)
Sligo - 1,750 (1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103; 1,807; 1,756)
Wexford - 585 (553 FD; 331 FD; 227 FD; 302 FD; 216 FD; 343 FD; 494 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 156 (314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200; 354; 462)
Cabinteely - 352 (610)
Cobh - 403 (366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681; 368; 403)
Drogheda - 583 (813 PD; 1,064 PD; 817 PD; 977 PD; 811 PD; 859 PD; 1,106 PD)
Limerick - 1,131 (1,206 PD; 757 PD; 1,649 PD; 734; 569; 598; 429)
Shels - 554 (596; 713; 1,114 PD; 1,187 PD; 781; 737; 972)
UCD - 297 (216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD; 558 PD; 610 PD; 272)
Waterford - 314 (460; 470; 478; 453; 466; 619; 434

With thanks to Nigel Harps for above...........
What ever about a 10 or 12 league does anyone seriously think a 16 team league is viable based on these attendances figures?

**NeverFeltBetter** · 05/01/2017, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy

If they were promoted they would still have to change leagues from lets say basically the MSL to the premier which then involves higher travelling costs. How is the possibility of going bust reduced for teams coming from MSL to premier than it is going from first to premier? To me it seems just changing season is what is different going from a regional first to prem than the current first to prem.

Why should they be asked? You are not suggesting we try and force teams to be part of LOI are you? Below is a list of the current MSL teams according to the website I am not 100% sure but I think all of them are from Cork if not all then a vast majority? Of those teams listed the places I have been to don't have facilites anywhere near up to scratch so. Anyone in around Cork know if any of them actually do have decent facilites? Imagine the standard of one of the teams if we were to have 3 or 4 teams from Cork all in the regional first division and fine you can come back and say spread the clubs better across Munster but who do we force to join then if there is no interest still? College Corinthians
Cobh Wanderers
Douglas Hall
Avondale United
St Marys
UCC
Ringmahon Rangers
Mayfield United
Castleview
Rockmount

I think this is a fair point. If you were instituting anything on the basis described it would have be from a new Munster League, to include the best of Cork, Limerick and then whoever else in the province would be capable/interested.

That's real pie in the sky though.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 05/01/2017, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by ForzaHoop

Won't lash up article from SUN as they are liars

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2017/01/...e-be-scrapped/

I realise now this means it would actually be 8-4 opposed as it stood. Still think the FAI will steamroller ahead, even if they realized that the objections of the clubs themselves are important, they wont back down now that it has been announced.

**sbgawa** · 05/01/2017, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

I realise now this means it would actually be 8-4 opposed as it stood. Still think the FAI will steamroller ahead, even if they realized that the objections of the clubs themselves are important, they wont back down now that it has been announced.

The FAI would be right at this point to call the PCA a joke if they turn around now and say they want to change their mind.
What sort of bunch of amateurs vote for / then request a 10 team league / then change their minds when it is announced?

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2017, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Does anyone have a link to the actual PCA report?

There's a link on the previous page.

**gufcfan** · 05/01/2017, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

The pyramid leagues feeding into 16 team premier not a regionalised 1st division. Strict licensing criteria for all teams and no bypassing it .

Going from a provincial league to playing the likes of Dundalk is far too big a step. Provincial leagues feeding a top-tier division is just going to kill the team that gets relegated and embarrass the one that gets promoted.

People giving out about travel costs in the FD need a kick up the arse as well. It's one among many different costs.

A regionalised First Division would make it even less attractive than it is already.

Rather than arranging the 20 deckchairs on the Titanic, the Premier Division should be left the f alone, and just as the juvenile structures at the top level in Ireland were reformed, do the same with senior football.

Feed the regional leagues into the First Division and let the clubs with the ambition to play at as high a level as possible, rise to it. Let the "big fish in a small pond" types stay where they are if they want.

Just as I see happening with schoolboy football, eventually people won't even remember it was done another way and some will laugh at how utterly ridiculous it was.

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2017, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

The pyramid leagues feeding into 16 team premier not a regionalised 1st division. Strict licensing criteria for all teams and no bypassing it .

I think that's what the suggestion is though. Try interfere with the non-league structure as little as possible, but merge the two so that FD clubs can join a regionalised league while non-league clubs have the chance to jump up to the LoI if they want to/are good enough/meet licencing. Because if, say, Athlone and Cabo drop out of the LoI, where are the replacements coming from?

But in fairness, there's a lot more in the report apart from a league format (and suggestions to improve the Cups too). There's a call for significantly increased investment from the FAI, with a kind of return on investment to properly buy the FAI into advancing the league and an indication of the link between domestic leagues and national team success (and how the LoI is vastly underperforming in that regard). That seems to me the most important part. But unfortunately, everyone always gets hooked up on league format.

**nigel-harps1954** · 05/01/2017, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

Going from a provincial league to playing the likes of Dundalk is far too big a step.

In fairness, going from the First Division to playing the likes of Dundalk is a huge step. There's non-league sides as good as First Division teams out there.

**Charlie Darwin** · 05/01/2017, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

In fairness, going from the First Division to playing the likes of Dundalk is a huge step. There's non-league sides as good as First Division teams out there.

There's non-league sides better than Harps out there.