League of Ireland in Europe 2016

**disgruntled** · 22/07/2016, 5:01 PM

Great win for City last night.
Sorry that Pats didn't quite make it but a very brave effort.

**disgruntled** · 22/07/2016, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Thats been tried a few times by the clubs/club owners to the detrimental effect of the clubs and the owners in some cases. It's not just a case of throwing 6 million at it will get you CL football, the quality and a whole lot of other aspects would need to change and improve.

What I have noticed over the years, with the teams that are seeded(greater co-eff) above(slightly or medium above) against the Irish sides, and whose budget is not that much greater than LOI sides, is that they are dotted with "internationals", players of a slightly higher calbire and greater technical ability than the Irish sides. These are hardly playing for world class International sides, but they will have experience of playing international football and at a higher level, what I would ask is what are these guys being paid to live in countries not as appealing as Ireland? I'd hazard a guess that they aren't being paid much more if in fact any. Maybe a change of mindset/thinking or a radical approach to improving the quality of the league by attracting some of these type players. Ireland is a good place to live,a great place to raise a family, decent schools and Health system and certainly more attractive than half of these Eastern european countries running on post-commie "democracies".

From watching the Irish sides the last couple of years, they are competing in the midfield area, and somewhat up front, but its the defense that makes the difference to these bigger sides. It's definitely becoming a closer playing field.

There seems to be a little more interest the last couple of years also from the "general"(soccer fans in Ireland) public, I can even see it in my mates back home, maybe its post euro blues or something, but they watched the Dundalk game. Thats an effort to go find a steam, nevermind turning on a channel on tv, something they wouldn't have even considered two years ago. I'm sure they would have watched the Cork game had it been on, but some even listened to cork fm!!

Yes if you can afford to pay for it. Ireland is no different to most countries. If you have money then you can get anything you want.
Its a hard struggle for anyone in Ireland depending on the state services.
Unless you have health insurance over here you'd be well dead before getting an appointment to see anyone. Likewise with any kind of decent schooling where you'd need a mortgage to give your children any kind of decent chance.

**nigel-harps1954** · 22/07/2016, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

€3.2m if Dundalk get to the Europa League and lose every game I think. Breakdown here

Where'd you see €6.3m?

Still, way above even what Rovers got five years ago.

If Dundalk get past BATE and lose the play-off round, they'll go straight into the EL Group stages, worth €6.3 million in that case.

**TheBoss** · 22/07/2016, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by orielabu

Has McMillan’s 3 goals over the two legs been bettered/equalled by a LOI player?

Jason Byrne got 4 goals (2 in each) for Shelbourne against Glentoran.
Rory Patterson got 4 goals (3 in 1st, 1 in 2nd) for Derry City against Aberystwyth Town.

Billy Dixon got 3 goals over 2 legs twice, once for Drumcondra and once for Shamrock Rovers.

**pineapple stu** · 22/07/2016, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

If Dundalk get past BATE and lose the play-off round, they'll go straight into the EL Group stages, worth €6.3 million in that case.

Ah, ok - I had been working off losing to BATE and winning the play-off round. Christ, that's huge money then.

**kksaints** · 22/07/2016, 7:16 PM

Fabio O'Brien got 4 for Pats in 2 ties in the Europa League in 2009.

**placid casual** · 22/07/2016, 7:19 PM

Dundalk have very very little chance against BATE.
If they had to fall over the line against a pi$$ poor icelandic team it does not bode well.

the draw they will receive for the europa league knock out will determine their fate, but i wouldnt be expecting some mickey mouse club.
they have done well to progress.

**Nesta99** · 22/07/2016, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by placid casual

Dundalk have very very little chance against BATE.
If they had to fall over the line against a pi$$ poor icelandic team it does not bode well.

the draw they will receive for the europa league knock out will determine their fate, but i wouldnt be expecting some mickey mouse club.
they have done well to progress.

I agree but the best attitude is to think of nothing but winning. Dundalk support in general know well the difficulty of the task but much like the players and management we shouldn't be thinking we're done before a ball is kicked.

**jinxy lilywhite** · 23/07/2016, 12:02 AM

Exactly however unlikely there is always a chance!!!!!!!!!!!

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/07/2016, 12:21 AM

Dundalk aren't the team they were last year, but they've generally been making up for it through Horgan and McMillan stepping up. The worry now is the defence is really creaking. Shields would normally be the answer, but he went into BATE undercooked last year and made two bad mistakes. Be interesting to see if Kenny makes the same calls this year he did last year.

**bennocelt** · 23/07/2016, 12:30 AM

It depends on how well the team is set up. A lot of football these days is rubbish, its more about the system than the players, just look at the Euros. Bate weren't amazing last year and with a bit of luck Dundalk could have had them. On the day anything can happen. Keep it tight next week, and then 90 minutes in Tallaght, who knows...

**TheBoss** · 23/07/2016, 2:39 AM

I just don't get this BATE praise on here. They are a good team no doubting that but their not this unbeatable team that some are portraying. The reason for their good results over the years in the Champions League group stages is that they like to play ultra defensive with counter attacking (Gordeichuk & Stasevich being the focal point in those attacks which they are excellent at). But even with that defensive strategy, they conceded 132 shots in those 6 games, which is 22 shots a game. They created 40 shots, averaging 6/7 shots per game in last seasons group stage.

But as a team that is given the incentive to try and break down a so called inferior side they do struggle and give up chances, just look at the qualifying results over the last few seasons. Since 2011, they have drawn or lost games against Linfield, Ekranas, Sturm Graz, Vardar, Debrecen, Ironi Kiryat Shmona, Skënderbeu*2, Dundalk, Videoton & Partizan. That is a lot of games in 5 seasons that they failed to win. Like last season, if Dundalk are organised, they will have a chance but that appears to be Dundalk's weakness at the moment!

**gufcfan** · 23/07/2016, 7:08 AM

Interesting points TheBoss.

I notice they've played 10 games at home this season in league and cup. They only conceded in one of them v Dinamo Minsk (3-3).

On the flip-side, they've played 12 away games and conceded in 10 of them. If you count the HJK game, they have only won 2 of their last 6 away games. One of those was a loss against a team that were in the relegation zone before their win against BATE and they let in 3 goals that night. Lost the following game against a mid-table team too.

Alexander Hleb signed back with them in the last few days. Two trips to LOI grounds for him this year!

**Conroy** · 23/07/2016, 8:35 AM

Any idea how much it cost St Pats to use a few years ago? Just the cost rental.

**legendz** · 23/07/2016, 10:22 AM

These qualifying rounds are essentially cup competitions for LoI teams. Dundalk and Cork are into European semi-final rounds. That's the way I look upon it. Shamrock Rovers winning the EL playoff a few years ago was there European Cup.

The Cork City manager was complaining about poor marketing for the league earlier in the summer. European runs like Dundalk and Cork create their own good marketing for the league on the field of play. One swallow doesn't make a summer though. It would need to be on a more consistent basis. Ideally the league should not to be dependent on European runs to raise the awareness and profile of the league but it seems to be where the league is.

**pineapple stu** · 23/07/2016, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

These qualifying rounds are essentially cup competitions for LoI teams.

So you're saying these knock-out competitions are essentially knock-out competitions?

Deep stuff there.

Originally Posted by gufcfan

If you count the HJK game, they have only won 2 of their last 6 away games.

Slight point of order - they played SJK, not HJK. HJK are traditionally the biggest club in Finland; SJK were formed 8 years ago after a local merger, started in the third tier and won the top flight for the first time last year. (You should of course know this as a Galway fan - Tommy Dunne was their first manager!)

I don't know if drawing with SJK makes BATE even less fearsome than drawing with HJK - and of course, they were 2-0 up and 4-0 up on aggregate, so can be excused for going to sleep.

BATE have lost just four league matches in the past 2½ seasons, took four points off Roma in the Champions' League group stages, drew with Leverkusen and lost home and away to Barca, though "just" 5-0 on aggregate. They're a really formiddable side, even allowing for the scare Dundalk gave them last year.

I'd like to think Cork and Dundalk have one more match win left between them though.

**wonder88** · 23/07/2016, 11:13 AM

Delighted for Dundalk and Cork(especially Stephen Kenny), but a couple of drawbacks. The disruption to the fixtures of the clubs not in Europe. This could be sorted by better planning and allowing/assisting the clubs left idle to have friendly fixtures against English clubs popular in Ireland. I am surprised that not more notice have been taken of the 3k crowd at the Shels/Leeds game at Tolka Park. I found this figure impressive. Would Shels have made much of a profit from the game?
The other drawback/problem is harder to sort, and this is the money made by the clubs if they win a few games in Europe. Is there a gap between clubs who qualify regularly and the rest and will it get wider in future. Of the 4 clubs who took part in Europe this year 3 of them are in the top four in the league table this season with over half the schedule played. How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

**Nesta99** · 23/07/2016, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by wonder88

How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

As i've said before on things like this, fair enough but not until Dundalk current stock has fallen to mid table, then yes work away. The reality is that it is not up to the clubs that have managed to break through long term obscurity, like Dundalk, to have to give a leg up to others. The same sort of stuff was discussed of worried about when Rovers were in the EL groups and rightly so Rovers fans were salivating at significantly adding to their roll of honour. It didnt work out that way but on this occasion if Dundalk make the next round or EL groups the financial reward gives an ability to remain one of the top sides in the country with probable ambition to catch Rovers league title haul.

Ah Stu give legendz a break here, what he is obviously getting at is that the qualifying rounds for LoI clubs is the equivalent of the quarter/semi/final of the entire competition for the top European clubs in relative terms.

**pineapple stu** · 23/07/2016, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Ah Stu give legendz a break here, what he is obviously getting at is that the qualifying rounds for LoI clubs is the equivalent of the quarter/semi/final of the entire competition for the top European clubs in relative terms.

Yeah, I know - just legendz does specialise in the remarkably bland and obvious at times!

**disgruntled** · 23/07/2016, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by wonder88

Delighted for Dundalk and Cork(especially Stephen Kenny), but a couple of drawbacks. The disruption to the fixtures of the clubs not in Europe. This could be sorted by better planning and allowing/assisting the clubs left idle to have friendly fixtures against English clubs popular in Ireland. I am surprised that not more notice have been taken of the 3k crowd at the Shels/Leeds game at Tolka Park. I found this figure impressive. Would Shels have made much of a profit from the game?
The other drawback/problem is harder to sort, and this is the money made by the clubs if they win a few games in Europe. Is there a gap between clubs who qualify regularly and the rest and will it get wider in future. Of the 4 clubs who took part in Europe this year 3 of them are in the top four in the league table this season with over half the schedule played. How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

Wasn't there something about this from the PCA ?
Not sure if it was the same thing as its some time ago since we heard from the PCA.