QuoteSo if they were all related it would have been okOriginally Posted by bbc
God help the poor woman
From the BBC.
What kind of country is this?An appeal court in Saudi Arabia has doubled the number of lashes and added a jail sentence as punishment for a woman who was gang-raped.
So if they were all related it would have been ok
God help the poor woman
But "its their culture and we have to respect that"
Christianity had its fundamentalist period centuries ago. Islamic Fundamentalism seems to a few hundred years behind Christianity & as bad anything that happened in the Middle Ages in Europe. Fundamentalist Islam will claim it cherishes women but I think it is fairly clear it hates women.
Saudia Arabia is even worse because its leaders enjoy a Western lifestyle.
Edit: On the otherhand maybe we could bring in this law.
Last edited by pete; 16/11/2007 at 5:11 PM.
[QUOTE=osarusan;816053
What kind of country is this?[/QUOTE]
Over here in the UK they had the Saudi's over for a state visit recently. Loads of arse-kissing and the like going on. I think it was the Brit foreign secretary that said ' we share common values' or something to that effect. As usual only a few labour backbenchers spoke up about this nonsense and the countries despicable humanitarian record.
They might have even made it as far as Buckingham Palace.
The dude abides....
Just one more place where "god" is an excuse for human rights violations.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Friend of mine is living in Dubai at the moment due to work and can't believe the nonsense that she hears over there on a daily basis. It includes being illegal to be an unmarried pregnant woman, and her friend almost getting a jail sentence for having a drink of water in a taxi duriung Ramadan. Almost makes you believe in George Bush being a means to an end, almost
Given that the Bushes are best buddies with the Saud Family, I doubt it.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I was more talking of the extermination of Islam to be honest
Extermination is a strong word
While I support the removal of religion from any sphere of influence, I don't think Bush's methods have helped. At all. Aside from his "proving the extremists right", he hasnt actually done anything to stop Islam: he invaded the only secular state in the region. In particular, funding and protecting the theocracy we're discussing here invalidates any such hope for me, I'm afraid.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
She was punished for being in the car with an unrelated man. That's the law over there (bizarre as it may be). She got punished for that. It was nothing to do with being raped.
Her rapists had their sentences doubled, anyone else mention that?
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Superfrank, she gets 200 lashes with a whip and a six-month sentence for being in a stranger's car.
However-
Just under a year doubled equals....lets say 22 months.Seven men from the majority Sunni community were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years
She gets 6 months in prison and 200 lashes for being a in a car with an unrelated man.
He gets less than 2 years for his part in a 14-time gang rape.the 19-year-old woman, who is from Saudi Arabia's Shia minority, was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.
You are right in that it is the law over there, my point is it is a disgraceful law which people should be disgusted by.
I understand what you're getting at. When she gets a strong punishment for what we see as a stupid law, surely the rapists should get stronger punishments for their part. But that's the case the world over. Frequently in any given country people are given lenient sentences when the crime warrants something worse (The Hoolahan/O'Donoghue case here springs to mind). The only reason this story is getting any publicity is because the woman was also punished for a Saudi crime that we don't understand.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Is that because I'm thick and my moral compass is horribly skewed or because the way 'justice' is meted out in Saudi Arabia is abhorrent?
In my case, I am not a Muslim therefore I do not understand the tradition and customs of that religion. That's why I do not understand why a law forebidding a female to be in the car of a male unrelated to her is passed and enforced in Saudi Arabia. It doesn't make sense to me and all non-Muslims.
However, if I were a Muslim I would have an idea of why such a law is in effect.
It's down to environments. We think it's ridiculous that such a law is enforced in any part of the world because it would be seen as a joke here because of the way our culture is. However, in a Muslim country with different customs and a different culture altogether, there may be a public taboo regarding such behaviour and therefore they have this law.
I'm not condoning it but I think it's a bit snobbish of us to say what laws are right or wrong in another country which has a different culture that we don't understand.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Call me a snob in that case then!
I think I've a reasonable idea of what Islam is like, women are treated as some form of sub-human.
I take your point about us not being qualified to comment on how the laws are spawned. But Shirley this kind of behaviour is reprehensible no matter what cultural basis. Like can I not say that the cannibalistic tribes of rural Laos egregiously violate human rights? (Although I'm not sure the right to not being eaten is in the UN charter!) I may not understand the cause but I know the effect is downright wrong. I think the question really should be whether the women in this case can understand it. If they do and are happy to accept it then we don't really have a right to interfere.
But perhaps because they are, given their position, voiceless we should be obliged to stand up for basic equality. Or should we sit back and allow religion to be leveraged to persecute people simply because we don't understand the reasons? Wrong is wrong the world over - people are people and just because a religion is used as an excuse to foist inequity I don't think it should be brushed off on the grounds of cultural misunderstanding.
As it happens, I live next door to a Muslim (of Algerian origin) family. The man of the house is a lovely fella, always smiling and saying hello, even on the days after the music had been blaring til all hours! Obviously and unfortunately I've no idea what the wife is like. She does tend to scream at the kids a lot though so I'm not too sure about her. It can be pretty unsettling at times when you walk past her and the kids, it's hard to know whether to say hello, just smile, or ignore them. I usually just tend to say hi to the kids. What can be very weird is when I look out my sitting room window to see a gaggle of women, well presumably at least, shrouded head to toe in black floating around the corner. Just one of the joys of multiculturalism I suppose.
Like apertheid in South Africa ( written into law). Nazi Germany laws. Seperation of black and white in he south of the US up to the late 60's (State laws). Very snobbish of us to think of these as abhorent.
Great post.
POTM.
Find that strange and conflicting regarding Dubai :
- Firstly, some in Ireland today and the vast majority up until recent times treated single pregnant women like criminals in Ireland.
- I have been told that it was illegal to be gay in Ireland until the late 80's (I stand corrected if this was not true.) I genuinely dont believe it personally. It beggers belief.
- I find the incident you speak of relating to Ramadan very strange given that all non-Muslim have ID cards in Dubai that allows them to buy alcohol and it is probably the most relaxed country in relation to the Muslim faith in the world. I was there during Ramadan and had absolutely no problems with food or drink in public during the hours of daylight. Are you sure it wasnt Saudi?
On Saudi, people need to accept that it is a uber-strict muslim country and they live and breath the Koran and its principals. I sure we all agree that the liberal west has many faults and failings.
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