We need to lose the McCarthy love fest and move on ,his last campaign was hardly a resounding success saved only by a centre half heading in a few setpiece goals coupled with hoofing the football anywhere from our last third of the pitch and a few glorious victories over Gibralter.Now Kenny has a list of unfortunate excuses for results up to tonight but tonight it was a disaster especially second half and toothless both on the pitch and his decision making off it.He needs to be left at it now ,bring in the kids and see can he produce over time, its not as if we are blessed with quality,all our so called established players are not regulars at their clubs and are injury prone.
We were terrible, no runners from midfield beyond Collins. We failed to get Robinson in the game. Our brighter moments in the pocket all happened in the first half when Browne got into that space and fluffed his feet everytime. Stevens had an absolute stinker as a wing back. Brady, McClean and Long are finished. There was two occasions in the 2nd half in which our players could've put a simple ball through to Robinson after a great run and he'd have been through but they played the ball out wide instead. Players need to be more clinical in the very few opportunities that come up.
Lux have been building for this for three years, we are unfortunately having to dig new foundations of a new house now. They were fortunate though as I thought their Captian should've had a 2md yellow.
Where do we go now? Gotta hope Brexit sends our youth to Europe and they develop as players there rather than in lower levels in England.
As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls
Was a big supporter of Kenny, but tonight was awful players need to take a big share of the blame but Kenny just seemed clueless on the sidelines and unwilling to adapt. And perhaps not important but he always seems so uncomfortable in the post and pre game interviews
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Stan, Mick (twice), Trap, O'Neill and Keane and now Kenny. Won't be long until we have 11 managers to blame instead of 11 players.Originally Posted by zero
I posted in a WhatsApp group earlier that a loss would be bigger than just the international side, it's a kick in the teeth for the LOI. Kenny was pushed as the best manager the league had produced, his Dundalk side played the best football, and were the first side to earn a point in the group stages of European club football, but he's clearly not up to management at international level.
I did note at the time of his appointment that there were a few similarities with Brian Kerr's appointment - both came from a League of Ireland background, had a reputation for attention to detail, working with young players, and getting the best out of limited players, coincidentally both also replaced Mick McCarthy. And both were shown to be out of their depth at this level. Kerr had the strongest pool of players available to to an Irish manager since the late 80's, and underachieved massively with them. Kenny has a much weaker set of players to work with but is unable to produce anything with them. Right now he has many clean sheets as goals in his ten games in charge, His team have led their opposition for 22 of the 900 minutes in his reign.
As others posted in the build up to the game, Luxembourg are not the pushovers of old, have improved in recent years, and have players playing around Europe, including one with Champions League experience this season - the goalscorer.
They've also kept 2 clean sheets in their last 20 games before tonight. We had three shots on target.
The 5-2 loss in Cyprus ended qualification for the 2008 European Championships. The loss tonight has ended qualification for the World Cup in Qatar next year.
The 5-2 loss in Cyprus was the beginning of the end for Steve Staunton's time in charge - it dragged on for another year before a draw against the same opposition ended it.
The loss tonight is the beginning of the end of Kenny's reign.
Brian Kerr's contract was not renewed by the FAI when it expired at the end of 2005, it took 15 years before another manager with League of Ireland experience took charge of the national side. It might be longer than that before the next one does.
The players were awful tonight in the sense that they looked like they didn't even know the objective was to put the ball in the opposition net. We had mountains of possession but absolutely no imagination in the final third. Lux didn't deserve to win but neither did we insofar as we couldn't score in an empty net these days. That fact has not changed over the last several years. Not Kenny's fault. But he will probably get the axe because of it.
I guess I'm one of those that's aimed at. Still here, just trying to take it all in. It says a lot that wanting football to win out, gets you pigeon-holed, as if Ireland losing to Luxembourg doesn't hurt "us" too. But it does, don't worry.
And it's nearly 2a,m. Back tomorrow sweetie.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. I thought Kerr did well with Ireland, played good football, and if not for that Israeli goalkeeper, we would have been qualified before the Switzerland match.
Failing an immediate change of management, Ireland are well on course to finish bottom of the group and are, with little doubt, amongst the very worse sides in Europe right now.
His crazy substitutions having no influence in the game at all............ tut tut
Being honest, that in itself might not be a bad thing. The Kenny era has shone an unfavourable light on the gap between the LOI and even mid tier European football, never mind the top level. Sometimes the truth hurts but it's better to know it and accept it.
I certainly wouldn't consider myself a League of Ireland man, but no question I really wanted Kenny to succeed. I genuinely thought, despite the defeat against Serbia, that there were green shoots there on Wednesday. I was wrong. Tonight we were back to the dark nights of the Nations League last year and it was horrible to watch.
I had zero expectations of us qualifying for the world cup before the campaign started. To be honest I had zero expectations of us even getting second in the group. I did think we would slip up at some point in the four games against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg, although probably not through a deserved home defeat to Luxembourg. What I wanted to see though was progress on the field, direction and purpose to our play, even if we didn't always get the results. I have to say in nine of the 10 games that Kenny has had I've seen nothing - and in the cold light of day the Serbia game wasn't even that great either. That it was the best of the 10 speaks volumes I think.
I really wanted the Kenny project to work but it's obvious now that it won't. We may well soldier on with him until the autumn but he's already a lame duck manager. Who knows what the future holds from here (I still believe there is hope with the players coming through, though it may take a number of years) but it really would be best for all parties now if the current manager was taken out of the firing line.
Last edited by Eirambler; 27/03/2021 at 11:03 PM.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Let's not get carried away. Mick presided over the absolute muck which was the away performance in Georgia and quite a few other underwhelming displays. I love Mick as a person who has a real passion for the Irish cause and I can't forget his performances as a player, but tonight's performance under Stephen Kenny has been a long time coming. We've been outclassed by so-called lesser sides for many years now. Funny enough - we weren't outclassed tonight. The bottom line is we are a nation of defenders who have never put an emphasis on attacking football (even our most memorable years under Jack were built on his making us tough to beat). You can't win games without scoring (it's that way in rugby, GAA, etc). Time for the nation to wake up to that fact.
Yes the two eras are chalk and cheese. The premier league has long since diversified and its less likely Lawrenson, Beglin and Whelan would be playing regularly in a top premier league side. Ditto for Moran, considering the prequisite to have decent distribution from defense in the current era.
The current crop of Irish players are certainly the worst in my 30 years of memory. The FAI is broke, Covid has wreaked havoc on many of the games thus far. Another manager is unlikely to do any better. And we would be unlikely to attract any decent managers given the financial restrictions and the paucity of talent making it an unattractive job. This campaign was always a rebuilding process. Time for Irish supporters to take a step back, take a reality check, and give Kenny until the 2024 campaign. It’s difficult to do, and I’m hurting just as much as anyone else. Let’s be patient and blood in the rest of the players and aim for 2024. Bigger picture and pragmatism called for.
Haven't posted in a while but have been following the team as loyally as ever. We now know we're not going to the world cup. I would take the rest of this campaign as an opportunity to build a team of young players and cap as many young players that are eligible for multiple countries as possible. Imagine where we'd be if grealish and rice were in the team.
Brady, Long, McClean are done, shouldn't be in anymore squads.
The One positive from tonight was Bazuna impressed the heck out of me. Time to stick with the young players and build for the future. But there HAS to be a plan including Kenny eventually handing off a team of young decent footballers to a more experienced manager.
In many ways tonight was the best thing that could have happened to Irish football because we've been farting around for almost 20 years trying to BS our way into tournaments just to pay off some fai debt. Now it's time to build.
Everything you say Eirambler is correct. And I, like you, want the Kenny project to work. But what is getting lost in all of this is that Stephen Kenny is quite a success as a manager - Dundalk, several LOI league titles, interest from Scotland, taking the U-21's as far as he did and arguably into the Uefa playoffs had he stayed in charge. Stephen Kenny is a manager who has the foresight to try to change the way the Irish team plays football. That takes courage - courage no other manager before him had. Ultimately no one will care and he'll be yesterday's news very soon. And then, we'll be back to square one - being outclassed by lesser teams at the Aviva and complaining about our manager, whoever he may be.
Here's how the group went - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_F...3_UEFA_Group_4
If we had beaten Israel, we'd have been a point ahead of Switzerland going in to that last game, needing to draw or win to finish second. The way things actually went, we needed to win to get into the play offs. The game finished 0-0. He took off Robbie Keane when we needed a goal.
his best performance was the 0-0 draw in Paris. His worst performance was the 0-0 draw with Switzerland.
The highest ranked side he beat in a competitive international were Georgia. They were 84th in the FIFA rankings at the time.
He never scored more than three goals in a game (and only managed that twice)
We were 2-0 up in that game against Israel, when he decided that bringing on Graham Kavanagh for an injured Robbie Keane, and pushing Kevin Kilbane out to the left and Damien Duff up front was better than bringing on Stephen Ellott.
That goalkeeper conned us out of a fair game, Kerr's decisions cost us the win
I like your analysis. The future has to rest with the youth (obvious enough statement but there is certainly no future in the established international players we have). I would like to think that players eligible for multiple countries would want to play for us, but after tonight........ If Kenny is to be removed by the FAI authorities, I would like them to at least keep him on in some capacity. After all, he developed an U-21 team which almost became the first to qualify for 6he Uefa finals. That experience with the youngsters in Ireland has to count for something going forward.
In his first campaign, Kerr took over a team that had lost their first two matches against the top two teams in the group, and our best player of the past 30 years had retired himself from international football. Hardly ideal conditions.
His "massive underachievement" in the next campaign was finishing one point off the playoffs. Keane had come back, but was very much in the twilight of his career. Duff was in his Newcastle phase. Apparently he had to do, because all who were wise told us we were in a weak group with a French side that were "there for the taking". Talk about notions. That French side went on to the World Cup final were they were edged out on pennos.
Kerr's dismissal was very harsh. But Delaney wanted to put his mate Stan in charge. That turned out well.
In Kerr we had a good value, committed, long-term manager.
Last edited by brine3; 27/03/2021 at 11:29 PM.
McCarthy got no points from the opening two games. Kerr got one point from the same opposition. He needed a last minute winner against Albania at home. Needing a win in the last game away to Switzerland, he lost 2-0.
We were seeded second in the draw - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_F...seeding_(UEFA) - and finished fourth, in a six team group.
We needed a penalty save from Shay Given to save a win in Cyprus in the penultimate game. After scoring 10 goals in the first seven games, we scored one goal in the last three. We surrendered leads to Switzerland and Israel(twice). The three teams ahead of us all scored more than we did. We won four games, beating the two lowest ranked sides in the group twice.
I agree with a lot of this. But at the end of the day you have to play to your strengths. We are indeed a nation of defenders. The best players we have currently are defenders and many of the best players we have coming through are defenders too. So ultimately, the way we are most likely to succeed is to get ourselves back to being rock solid at the back and do the best we can with what we have from midfield forward. That doesn't mean we need to play hoof ball again for the next 20 years, but as a middle of the road European nation, if we are secure at the back first and foremost we'll often eke out enough going forward to get us results against better teams and avoid embarrassing nights like tonight against poorer teams. As we have shown in the past that's a combination that can get us to major finals. There's a middle ground between what Kenny has tried to do and what MON, Trap etc tried to do - we need to find it.
I think the Kenny experiment was an itch that many of us, myself included, needed to scratch. But having seen it in action for 10 games we need to accept that it's not a runner at this point in time. Maybe we can revisit it in the future if we have better players. But I think we need a back to basics approach for the time being, depressing a thought as that is.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
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