Stephen Kenny

[Diggs246]

Weren't there similar comments by players in the media around the end of the Stan reign?

Of course. They are completely compromised,!!

[Fixer82]

Kenny had a good crack at it and it hasn't worked. I've said it here before, he doesn't have the charisma that can gee up the players when needed. McCarthy had it, O'Neill had it. Big Jack had it in spades. I just can't imagine Kenny giving an inspirational speech that would make players run through walls for him.

I wish him all the best cos i think he's a good guy but it just hasn't worked.
I don't know who I'd have in. Maybe Hughton if he wasn't already employed. But I'm at a loss. It's a bad state of affairs. Owen Coyle maybe? I really don't know!

[SkStu]

Of course. They are completely compromised,!!

Yeah...fair enough of course - its just that true feelings to the contrary have tended to get leaked under quite a few of the previous regimes.

[JR89]

Weren't there similar comments by players in the media around the end of the Stan reign?

Wouldn't Stan have been coaching a group that would have had a decent number of ex teammates since there was only 3.5yrs between him retiring and becoming manager.

[Colbert Report]

“pub league.” You can f##k right off with that attitude.

He is a pub league manager, though. The League of Ireland is a pub league. I'm not looking to wind anyone up, but the League of Ireland crowd on here need to wise up and face reality. Daryl Horgan was the best player in the league in 2016 and isn't good enough to play for a League 2 team in England. I've seen him play for Ireland and he looks like Bambi on ice. Sean Maguire, Michael Duffy, Jack Byrne, Georgie Kelly, Rory Gaffney. All named players of the year, all League 1 or League 2 quality players. And these were the BEST players in the country! Most years the LOI teams are out of Europe before the end of July, beaten by minnows in far off countries that don't produce good players. Nobody good enough to play in the fifth or sixth tier of English football would choose to stay and play in Ireland.

Stephen Kenny was relegated in his only season in charge of a professional football club in Scotland. He's such a nice guy, but not up to this. He needs to be let go so he can go back and coach amateur players at the League of Ireland level. Most of our players are Championship level in England, and they deserve a proper manager, not someone who got off the train at the wrong stop and somehow ended up with the job.

[Dave77]

Don’t think that’s fair comment at all. You say I’m not looking to wind anyone up but it’s a pub league. Pub league is lads who don’t train and get ****ed before/during and after match. LOI is not this so clearly it’s a wind up. I won’t even argue the rest of what you said. It’s amazing in Ireland, we must be the only country in the world who completely ignores our own football and slags it off at every opportunity.

I genuinely prefer talking to football fans from Holland, Scotland etc. who genuinely have an interest in domestic football in Ireland then irish Man U/pool fans

So Colbert Report you can **** off with pub league ****.

Lower standard fair enough but pub league is to get reaction

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, to say it's a pub league is just stupid. No mention of Séamus Coleman, James McClean, Kevin Doyle, even the current Ireland manager taking Dundalk to the brink of the Champions League group stages. It's probably around L2 level, which clearly isn't great but that's a point that can be made without going daft.

Kenny deserved his chance at the 21s and did a reasonable job there. Delaney's idea of appointing two managers at the same time was idiotic, but it's not unknown for a 21s manager to take over as senior manager in due course (Southgate the obvious example). And it hasn't worked out. Again, an argument that can be made without stupid hyperbole.

[2 Year Contract]

He is a pub league manager, though. The League of Ireland is a pub league. I'm not looking to wind anyone up, but the League of Ireland crowd on here need to wise up and face reality. Daryl Horgan was the best player in the league in 2016 and isn't good enough to play for a League 2 team in England. I've seen him play for Ireland and he looks like Bambi on ice. Sean Maguire, Michael Duffy, Jack Byrne, Georgie Kelly, Rory Gaffney. All named players of the year, all League 1 or League 2 quality players. And these were the BEST players in the country! Most years the LOI teams are out of Europe before the end of July, beaten by minnows in far off countries that don't produce good players. Nobody good enough to play in the fifth or sixth tier of English football would choose to stay and play in Ireland.

Stephen Kenny was relegated in his only season in charge of a professional football club in Scotland. He's such a nice guy, but not up to this. He needs to be let go so he can go back and coach amateur players at the League of Ireland level. Most of our players are Championship level in England, and they deserve a proper manager, not someone who got off the train at the wrong stop and somehow ended up with the job.

It’s rare enough that you’d see a post on here as long as this which tries to make so many different points yet is incorrect in pretty much everything it says. I would say congratulations but it’s pretty clear you did so deliberately. Get outside and enjoy the California sunshine It’ll surely be better for the head than deliberately trying to wind people up by knocking your own national football league by talking nonsense about it

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah, to say it's a pub league is just stupid. No mention of Séamus Coleman, James McClean, Kevin Doyle, even the current Ireland manager taking Dundalk to the brink of the Champions League group stages. It's probably around L2 level, which clearly isn't great but that's a point that can be made without going daft.

Kenny deserved his chance at the 21s and did a reasonable job there. Delaney's idea of appointing two managers at the same time was idiotic, but it's not unknown for a 21s manager to take over as senior manager in due course (Southgate the obvious example). And it hasn't worked out. Again, an argument that can be made without stupid hyperbole.

Southgate got the England job almost by default. Allardyce had been caught in a sting by one of the tabloids posing as potential buyers of a premier league club talking about how he could get transfers pushed through, and had to resign. The FA had to appoint someone fast, nobody was interested, so Southgate got promoted from their U21s.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough, but there's similar at Spain - Suarez, Saez, Lopetegui and the current manager de la Fuente for example. All with the 21s before taking the senior role. Or Berti Vogts with Germany

[Diggs246]

Fair enough, but there's similar at Spain - Suarez, Saez, Lopetegui and the current manager de la Fuente for example. All with the 21s before taking the senior role. Or Berti Vogts with Germany

Did they have high level club experience before the u21?

Genuine question?

[John83]

Reasonable question. I sampled a couple at random.

Lopetegui had a year at Real Madrid B, and some years before that he managed Rayo Valecano for ten games and Spain's U17s. So not much, though at a decent but not exceptional level.

De la Fuente's career is a patchwork of youth teams and regional league gigs. One abbreviated season in Segunda Division B.

Looks to me like a strategy that's seeking value for money, and possibly adherence to a national strategy over personal stylistic preferences.

[pineapple stu]

Berti Vogts went straight in as 21s manager when he retired from playing, was there for 12 years (four of which he doubled up as national team assistant), and then was senior manager for the next eight years. So again, nothing there.

I suspect a club manager of any sort of high profile wouldn't go in as 21s boss. It's hard to get a feel for how common it is though as it's hard enough to find lists of historic U21 managers.

But to bring that back to the point I was making - the LoI isn't a pub league (but equally isn't a strong league); I think Kenny was deserving of a spell with the 21s, which can come with promotion to the seniors; I think Delaney was an idiot for effectively sacking McCarthy the day he appointed him (Kenny could maybe have benefitted from a longer stint as 21s boss); and ultimately I don't think it's worked out for Kenny and we need to be looking elsewhere.

Given budgets are a big issue - Mark Kennedy? Not a lot of club experience but seems to have done ok with Lincoln this season. League 1 unfortunately may be about our level for new managers.

[Diggs246]

Berti Vogts went straight in as 21s manager when he retired from playing, was there for 12 years (four of which he doubled up as national team assistant), and then was senior manager for the next eight years. So again, nothing there.

I suspect a club manager of any sort of high profile wouldn't go in as 21s boss. It's hard to get a feel for how common it is though as it's hard enough to find lists of historic U21 managers.

But to bring that back to the point I was making - the LoI isn't a pub league (but equally isn't a strong league); I think Kenny was deserving of a spell with the 21s, which can come with promotion to the seniors; I think Delaney was an idiot for effectively sacking McCarthy the day he appointed him (Kenny could maybe have benefitted from a longer stint as 21s boss); and ultimately I don't think it's worked out for Kenny and we need to be looking elsewhere.

Given budgets are a big issue - Mark Kennedy? Not a lot of club experience but seems to have done ok with Lincoln this season. League 1 unfortunately may be about our level for new managers.

Am I right in saying carsleys contract with the u21s is up soon?

Also he has a bad run recently but defo has something in his locker ...Chris wilder?

I fear John o Shea will get the rest of this campaign.

[JR89]

Carsley's contract is up this summer I believe but he's been meh with an U21s team that should have blown through teams in qualification and would likely beat our seniors. Can't imagine him doing much better with Ireland.

[Diggs246]

Carsley's contract is up this summer I believe but he's been meh with an U21s team that should have blown through teams in qualification and would likely beat our seniors. Can't imagine him doing much better with Ireland.

You might be right, but its more then time to discuss kennys replacement.
If we win 4-0 does that mean he has the two games in September?

[Trequartista20]

Kenny was promised the Ireland senior managererial position before he took over as U-21 manager. This is completely different to earning promotion to the top job as a result of successes achieved at underage level, as was the case with Brian Kerr.

One of the foundational tenets of the Kennyite mythology is that he did an exceptionally good and indeed transformative job with the Irish Under-21 team, in doing so, forming an unshakable bond with an emerging crop of talented young players that would benefit the national team for years to come, and his elevation to the senior position being therefore fully merited. In fact he took charge of just a dozen U-21 matches, winning just over half those. I believe only seven of those twelve being competitive games.

Southgate, who already had experience managing in the Premier League, managed the England U-21s for three years and 37 matches, enjoying a 73% win rate. So, not really comparable with the Kenny situation at all.

The idea that the LoI is on a par with EFL League Two seems an enormous stretch to me. For a start, League Two, in contrast to the Irish Premier Division is fully professional. By pretty much every conceivable metric from wages to stadia to training facilities to finances to transfer fees to average attendances to highest attendances to standard of play, League Two appears to be of a vastly superior standard to the semi-professional and largely amateurish and mismanaged LoI.

An exceptional case, but Bradford City had average attendances of over 18,000 last season.

In this article Damien Duff talks about wanting to improve his side by signing two or three experienced players for 1,200 euros a week but not being able to afford to do so. The average wage in League Two is about 3,000 euros.

The minimum wage for those players who are on full-time contracts of €430 per week. Many players have second jobs and have to sign on to the dole in the off-season.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...ut-more-to-do/

The LoI Champions receive €125,000 in prize money, with the bottom side receiving €22,000. Each League Two side receives £473,000 (about €550,000) from the EFL plus £430,000 in 'solidarity payments' from the Premier League. The difference is stark.

So while talking about the LoI as pub league isn't perhaps quite fair, neither is a belief that it's on the same level as the EFL. Indeed I believe John Sheridan's assessment of the league was indeed that it was a 'pub league'. And that as someone who'd managed in both the EFL and the Irish Premier Division.

[pineapple stu]

The idea that the LoI is on a par with EFL League Two seems an enormous stretch to me. For a start, League Two, in contrast to the Irish Premier Division is fully professional. By pretty much every conceivable metric from wages to stadia to training facilities to finances to transfer fees to average attendances to highest attendances to standard of play, League Two appears to be of a vastly superior standard to the semi-professional and largely amateurish and mismanaged LoI.

It's a topic for a different thread I guess, but if nothing else the LoI doesn't fit neatly into any one division in England. UCD certainly aren't League Two for example, and aren't even Conference.

There's certainly a huge financial difference between L2 and the majority of the LoI, but then the top LoI sides get European money which L2 sides don't, and that'll balance things out a bit. Facilities here are way behind for sure, as is stuff like underage structures.

I've always found this chart quite reasonable; positions the LoI closer to L2 than to the Conference, but the nature of a smaller league is that it'll stretch more, at both ends.

[Razors left peg]

https://extra.ie/2023/06/18/sport/so...o-interim-role

Sam Allardyce being linked with the role. THIS is why so many have backed Kenny I think. The alternative is not what clever manager might be out there, it's the knowledge that the FAI are incompetent enough to appointment Allardyce

[JR89]

You might be right, but its more then time to discuss kennys replacement.
If we win 4-0 does that mean he has the two games in September?

The only way imo that the FAI replace him pre September is if he doesn't win tonight. Holland at home will be the deciding game if they do decide they can replace him mid campaign.