Premier League 2 with Old Firm ?

[OwlsFan]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...5875-21288238/

Somehow, I doubt if it will happen but who knows.

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting.

I wonder could a Scottish League without the OF open up the possibility of a Celtic League style cross border tournament?

[Neish]

This story appears every few years(almost as much as the stone roses reform stories). Can't see it happening but then agian it was in The Mirror

[Razors left peg]

If Cardiff and Swansea can do it I could never see any reason why Celtic and Rangers couldnt

[holidaysong]

If Cardiff and Swansea can do it I could never see any reason why Celtic and Rangers couldnt

Cardiff and Swansea didn't leave the LOW to join the English set up though. They were in the English set up before the LOW even formed. Indeed, the LOW was only set up so the FAW could keep their national team. It's a completely different situation to what the Old Firm want to do. I can't see UEFA or the SFA allowing it to happen.

This will be backed by yo-yo clubs such as West Brom, Wolves, etc. but I can't see it happening. One club being promoted from the Football League to PL2 is a joke.

[DeLorean]

Cardiff and Swansea didn't leave the LOW to join the English set up though. They were in the English set up before the LOW even formed. Indeed, the LOW was only set up so the FAW could keep their national team. It's a completely different situation to what the Old Firm want to do. I can't see UEFA or the SFA allowing it to happen.

This will be backed by yo-yo clubs such as West Brom, Wolves, etc. but I can't see it happening. One club being promoted from the Football League to PL2 is a joke.

Ya I must admit this was the point that I had the biggest issue with really. I can't see why this wouldn't remain at 3 to give the football league clubs a fighting chance of progress.

[holidaysong]

I can't see why this wouldn't remain at 3 to give the football league clubs a fighting chance of progress.

That is the key point though for clubs such as Wolves, West Brom, etc. It gives them a much greater chance of remaining in the elite. Other wise, it'd just be a case of renaming the Championship the PL2 and bringing the division under the auspices of the PL rather than the FL.

[Gather round]

It could happen in principle, but in practice CeltGers and RangTic moving would likely be unpopular with

a) other leading Scottish clubs, who would lose the income from Old Firm games while still carrying the cost of upgrading their grounds (as insisted on by RangTic and CeltGers)

b) the English clubs who would lose their places to the gruesome twosome

c) some English Police, local authorities etc. who wouldn't want the baggage of more troublesome fixtures

d) Old firm fans unused to not winning almost every game they play. At least initially, even if co-opted straight into the English Prem, who's to say they wouldn't struggle against relegation?

Sealing off English D2 (ie championship) from D3 is a separate issue. D2 wouldn't be an elite, just a rump of clubs protected from slumming it in a bad year. Their chances of going up to D1 for a while would be increased, but not their likelihood of doing any better having got there. They wouldn't have any more money- the Champions' League clubs cream off more and more each season.

With due respect to the mighty Wolves, they aren't a yo-yo club in recent years. One season in the top division since 1984...

[DeLorean]

That is the key point though for clubs such as Wolves, West Brom, etc. It gives them a much greater chance of remaining in the elite. Other wise, it'd just be a case of renaming the Championship the PL2 and bringing the division under the auspices of the PL rather than the FL.

Well not really though because they would still be much more secure in the sense that the PL would consist of 36 teams instead of 20.

[Gather round]

36 clubs wouldn't be an elite comparable to the present 20, even if the prize money available doubled and the biggest four teams constantly qualifying for the CL didn't take all of it.

The thing is, calling D3 'League 1' doesn't make it any more elite. You're still two steps away from the real elite (or arguably three, if the first four places in D1 are predictable not just every year but probably for years to come).

[DeLorean]

36 clubs wouldn't be an elite comparable to the present 20

True. In fact associating the word elite with the likes of Hull and Stoke is pushing it as it is!!

[Schumi]

I don't see how this would be passed by 14 Premiership clubs as the article says is required. An 18 team top division with 2 of the places presumably being taken by Glasgow clubs would leave the current 15th placed Premiership club being relegated. They'd be mad to vote for the change.

[DeLorean]

I don't see how this would be passed by 14 Premiership clubs as the article says is required. An 18 team top division with 2 of the places presumably being taken by Glasgow clubs would leave the current 15th placed Premiership club being relegated. They'd be mad to vote for the change.

Celtic and Rangers are being proposed to begin life in PL2. Clearly this would be the 2nd tier of English football (ie.the Championship) but not as we know it. They would have the same financial packages as PL1. I think any club which would foresee the possibility of relegation in the not so distant future would go for it as it gives them some security. I don't think the clubs would have a problem with Celtic and Rangers taking 2 PL spaces as there would still be 34 more places up up for grabs compared to the existing 20. Basically the whole point of it is to make it less damaging financially for a club (namely Bolton!!) to be relegated. I think it's an interesting idea but more than one team should be relegated from/promoted to PL2 in a given season.

[Sheridan]

Scotland should have its membership of UEFA and right to field a national team revoked if this ever happens.

[holidaysong]

Scotland should have its membership of UEFA and right to field a national team revoked if this ever happens.

Can the SFA actually legally stop the Old Firm from going off to the English League though or can they only withhold their European spots?

[Weatherman]

Cardiff and Swansea didn't leave the LOW to join the English set up though. They were in the English set up before the LOW even formed. Indeed, the LOW was only set up so the FAW could keep their national team. It's a completely different situation to what the Old Firm want to do. I can't see UEFA or the SFA allowing it to happen.

This will be backed by yo-yo clubs such as West Brom, Wolves, etc. but I can't see it happening. One club being promoted from the Football League to PL2 is a joke.

Yeah but swansea and cardiff still have to answer to the FAW, regarding sending off's and so on. cant see why the old firm cant join and still have to answer to the SFA?

[holidaysong]

Yeah but swansea and cardiff still have to answer to the FAW, regarding sending off's and so on. cant see why the old firm cant join and still have to answer to the SFA?

The FAW won't nominate Swansea or Cardiff for their European spots though, would Celtic and Rangers be willing to give up European football to join the Premier League? Maybe they would..?

[Gather round]

Celtic and Rangers are being proposed to begin life in PL2. Clearly this would be the 2nd tier of English football (ie.the Championship) but not as we know it. They would have the same financial packages as PL1

BL, you aren't explaining here how English Division 2 would generate this extra money. I can't see any way in which D2 strugglers (maybe teams like Blackpool, Doncaster etc. from the current season) would get anywhere near the income from prize money, TV deal that teams like Villa, Everton, Spurs etc. could expect.

I think any club which would foresee the possibility of relegation in the not so distant future would go for it as it gives them some security

Abolishing or severely restricting relegation from D2 might give security (although it risks atrophying the league, without the possibility of promotion from below). That's completely different from the point above though, surely?

I don't think the clubs would have a problem with Celtic and Rangers taking 2 PL spaces as there would still be 34 more places up up for grabs compared to the existing 20

Do you seriously think Barnsley against Celtic or Rangers (or even Newcastle or Sunderland against one of them) would have the same attraction as the likely Champions' League qualifiers, if either or both the Scots were mired in D2 mid-table?

Basically the whole point of it is to make it less damaging financially for a club (namely Bolton!!) to be relegated. I think it's an interesting idea but more than one team should be relegated from/promoted to PL2 in a given season

Reducing the number from three to two will only protect one team per season, hardly a big deal. Reducing it to one or potentially zero (through a play-off, or maybe a certification scheme where you need a demanding miniumum standard of facilities, say 20,000 seats) risks distorting the whole system by reducing the realistic incentive of promotion to most lower division clubs.

[Weatherman]

The FAW won't nominate Swansea or Cardiff for their European spots though, would Celtic and Rangers be willing to give up European football to join the Premier League? Maybe they would..?

Yeah i think they would! hard to think about it tho because realistically imo they will never be in the champions league again if they join the english league.

[Gather round]

Yeah i think they would! hard to think about it tho because realistically imo they will never be in the champions league again if they join the english league

Maybe they feel confident of earning more from the English TV deal than they'd lose from the CL prize money? Anyone know the comparable figures for last year (I know Rangers probably didn't get much for losing to Hearts' feeder team)