Unemployment

[mypost]

I've said the same to other people, I really don't see how it could be anything other than beneficial if you got people working in the community for their dole.

Can't work.

1. The current set up of the dole, means you must have nothing to do in order to get it.
2. Doing community/charity work leaves the system wide open to further fraud, with undeclared "payments" made.

stupid bumping old threads

Unemployment is still very much a live issue in this country.

[Fr Damo]

anyone think that to get the dole you should do 10hours of community service or charity work a week? might give people somthing to do i guess..

Don't we have this already, back to work schemes?

I can't see it working too easily, I know a guy getting close to 500 euro a week for sitting in a junior soccer club's club house (cos of the weather) for 19hrs a week. His duties include pitch marking, grass cuttting and litter duties. Why would he (And others no doubt such grave diggers and many other community posts) work for 10 hours to get the "basic "dole?
Before anyone asks, he has three kids under 16, wife unemployed, I wonder what would he be entitled to if he sat at home doing SFA?

[dahamsta]

Sometimes I have difficulty understanding your mindset mypost.

1. The current set up of the dole, means you must have nothing to do in order to get it.

I know it's a bit whacked out an' all, but... change it?

[mypost]

September 2009: We're ordered to support the government's Lisbon Treaty for "jobs" and "economic recovery"

December 2009: "Our plan is working, we have turned the corner"

February 2010: Unemployment soars to 437,000 people, at a rate of 12.7%

No jobs, no recovery, no idea.

[Macy]

No jobs, no recovery, no idea.

They do have an idea - to cut wages across the economy. They just haven't thought it through - wage cuts, and threats of further wage cuts (both further public sector cuts, and the threat to the minimum wages/ JLC's), reduce consumer confidence, which reduces consumer spending as they save, pay down debt or simply don't have enough. This - shock, horror - leads to job losses in retail and the service sector and the vicious cycle continues. ISME and IBEC campaigned for this situation, and the Government complied - remember that next time you have to suffer Mark Fielding whinging.

[Fr Damo]

The reason we have job losses in the hotels, retail and services sevtor is not down to the loss of spending power on it's own, but down to the cost of doing business here and in particular rents. Most of the retail parks, office blocks & fancy resturants that sprung up in the last five years are in buildings that have rents that are based on a price level and in turn profit margin that simply isn't and wasn't viable. Prices are falling and as painful as it is for business it'd good in the longer term of this countries recovery.

Landlords/developers (with the help of the banks/government/nama) need to wake up to this sharpish and I agree with mypost, they (FF / Greens) aren't adressing this at all.

I have no confidence in Fielding or Patrica Callen of the SFA

[John83]

It's not so much that the landlords haven't caught on Damo, as it's that the landlords have mortgages to service.

[Fr Damo]

Landlords/developers (with the help of the banks/government/nama) need to wake up to this sharpish and I agree with mypost, they (FF / Greens) aren't adressing this at all.

That's Where the Government come in John and why I agree with mypost (for once!)

[Macy]

The reason we have job losses in the hotels, retail and services sevtor is not down to the loss of spending power on it's own, but down to the cost of doing business here and in particular rents

I've argued a long time that the drivers of our "uncompetitiveness" are not wages, however the focus on them has left the other issues unaddressed. How many FF politicians have a nice property portfolio reliant on rent? Then we have their ideological driven regulation of other markets such as the utilities to attract competition, with no benefit to the consumer either commercial or domestic. And ISME, IBEC's and FF/Greens solution to this is to reduce minimum wage rates inparticular, and wages and social welfare in general, to increase our "competitiveness".

[mypost]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0315/jobs.html

[dahamsta]

The VAT rate is starting to look like a damned yoyo.

[tricky_colour]

anyone think that to get the dole you should do 10hours of community service or charity work a week? might give people somthing to do i guess..

Sound akin to slavery to me.
If there is work to be done pay people a proper wage.
People pay their national insurance (or whatever it is called in Ireland, I'm UK) so why shoudl they be used as
forced labour?

But as I said it is slavery - work or starve.
It is immoral.

Also once employer realise they can get free labour, employment is likely to rise.

[dahamsta]

I reckon we'd save millions just by stopping the nonsense practice of doling out dosh to people, counting it, and then taking some of it back in tax. The administrative overhead has to be significant.

The civil servant that came up with the idea, doubtless to keep him- or herself in an overpaid and underworked job for the rest of their life, should be rewarded for their ingenuity, and then taxed at 99% for the rest of their life.

[Fr Damo]

What are they going to do with VAT? As I understand it 21% VAT is going up to 23% as part of the IMF Deal. I know FG were saying they were going to cut the 13.5% to 10 or 12% to stimulate "hairdressers and small builders doing extensions" but is this article refering to that lower cut or something else? If it is related to FGs election manefesto it's old new and much ado about nothing.

BTW, raising the higher rate from 21% to 23% is going to do more harm than the good of a spin off of in cutting the lower rate from 13.5% to 10%. It will hit cash flow of small businesses

[Macy]

I reckon we'd save millions just by stopping the nonsense practice of doling out dosh to people, counting it, and then taking some of it back in tax. The administrative overhead has to be significant.

I don't get you - I know some benefits are taxable, but surely the amount of tax is dependent on other factors (single or jointly assessed, split of tax credits etc)? It would be far more complex to deduct at source, if I'm getting your issue right?

[Eminence Grise]

FG were saying they were going to cut the 13.5% to 10 or 12% to stimulate "hairdressers and small builders doing extensions"

What about hairdressers who don't do extensions? That discriminates against my barber (and me - not enought left to fit extensions to...)

I'd like to see both rates of VAT lowered - it's a horribly regressive tax that hammers somebody on benefit, who pays the same rate as high earners for the same goods and services. But I'm not holding my breath. It's too easy a tax for governments to play with.

I'm all for people volunteering while they're out of work (my mum is volunteering in a charity shop until something comes her way) but AFAIK one requirement for benfit is that you are available for work, and some jobsworths in the department regard volunteering as breaching that. I had a run-in with one of those jobsworths years ago over a chance to get a fortnight's work experience. Ridiculous. How would you monitor forced volunteering (there's an oxymoron) - it sounds like an expensive layer of bureaucracy, and would junior football clubs, Oxfam shops, active age groups etc etc want the hassle of filling in forms for volunteers?

I'm very sceptical about making people work for benefit, and these 10,000 internships that the government is going on about: if all they do is provide free or underpaid labour for businesses, they don't create jobs. When somebody reaches the end of their work for dole or intern scheme, instead of being offered a job, they get shipped out, back onto benefit, and the next batch of hopefuls is brought in.

Dahamsta, I'm not quite sure I get your point. Is it what Macy has said? That was what I took from it too.

[dahamsta]

It would be far more complex to deduct at source, if I'm getting your issue right?

Why? They have all the data right there. And they're accountants.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

No thanks, I pay my tax and PRSI and if I fall on hards times I've already paid for my dole money I owe the state nothing, especially not my slace labour and dignity.

[dahamsta]

I pay my tax and PRSI too, but because I'm self-employed I'm entitled to nothing if my business goes bust.

[pineapple stu]

What's the justification for that, by the way? It sounds like a legal challenge waiting to happen on discriminatory grounds surely? (I know it's because you don't pay employer's PRSI, but I think you're legally obliged to be in the PRSI grouping you are in). Never understood that.