Election 2007: Prime Time Leaders Debate

**pete** · 17/05/2007, 9:01 PM

On now on RTE 1.

Started off with some waffle about the economy.
Bertie asked about the recent financial issues, Enda forced to discuss but could see he did not want to get into....

**Matchman** · 17/05/2007, 9:15 PM

Kenny struggling a bit on health

**pete** · 17/05/2007, 9:32 PM

Numbers, numbers... its all dutch to me...

**jebus** · 17/05/2007, 9:51 PM

Bertie is losing this one from my point of view. Kenny is actually laying out figures, talking about what he will do and is bringing in people he has met when electioneering. Bertie is on the defensive on every case, and hasn't laid out anything specific

**pete** · 17/05/2007, 10:09 PM

I wasn't glued to the tv as really just had it on the background but was boring.

Bertie was trying to trip up Enda on figures & as you say Enda replied with stories from ordinary people on the canvass. Its not like Bertie could challenge them. The one good thing Kenny did was ease of on "de contract" as hes been pushing that too much lately.

I would think a draw which all Kenny needed. He was never going to delivery a knockout blow & just needed no show he could be a leader by matching Bertie.

**jebus** · 17/05/2007, 10:13 PM

Agreed, I was hoping he wouldn't harp on about that contract too much, but Bertiie hell into the age old trap of when losing a discussion just raise your voice above your opponant and try to put words in his mouth, I should know I do it all the time!

**Schumi** · 17/05/2007, 10:15 PM

Watched a bit of it but the two of them continually talking at the same time was too annoying. Miriam O'Callaghan should have told one of them to shut up!

**Poor Student** · 17/05/2007, 10:18 PM

O'Callaghan wasted too much time on the Bertie finance stuff, particularly given the fact that Enda Kenny wasn't going to comment on it. The costing arguments are real head wrecking stuff, they're free to bat about any figures and most of us really don't know any better. Is it just me or did the debate boil down to Kenny saying he wanted to do the same things but he has the greater political will? Also, his insistence that he'll not seek relection if his contract points are not met echoes very much of John Delaney and the Genesis Report.

**pete** · 17/05/2007, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

O'Callaghan wasted too much time on the Bertie finance stuff, particularly given the fact that Enda Kenny wasn't going to comment on it.

I agree with that. She forced Bertie & Enda to comment on when neither wanted to talk about.

I think the debate showed how similar their policies really are. Voters will just decide whether FF have more experience of implementing or new coalition deserve a chance to implement their promises.

**jebus** · 17/05/2007, 10:25 PM

Ah I don't know, Kenny has made such a big deal of this contract that there will be no way he can stay in office if he hasn't reached his targets in five years, thats why FG are getting my vote

**galwayhoop** · 17/05/2007, 10:26 PM

i thought enda kenny looked a bit rattled on his justice spokesman's comments. i think that bertie showed much more leadership ability (bullying maybe??) than kenny but maybe thats just experience.

all in all i don't think that anything enda kenny is saying represents the major change that the people say they are looking for. the fact that people are majorly for this so-called change is beyond me anyhow as i reckon we have a larger potential fall than potential improvement.

**galwayhoop** · 17/05/2007, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Ah I don't know, Kenny has made such a big deal of this contract that there will be no way he can stay in offica if he hasn't reached his targets in five years, thats why FG are getting my vote

are you saying that you are voting for them because they are saying they won't welch on their promises???? surely a politician could never do such a thing

**jebus** · 17/05/2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

are you saying that you are voting for them because they are saying they won't welch on their promises???? surely a politician could never do such a thing

Jesus you lot should be happy considering Kenny brought up Galway's Third World water supply.

Actually I was surprsied that the nurses strike, Galway's water supply, Rossport and other media friendly issues weren't touched on more

**Poor Student** · 17/05/2007, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Ah I don't know, Kenny has made such a big deal of this contract that there will be no way he can stay in office if he hasn't reached his targets in five years, thats why FG are getting my vote

Is that sarcasm?

I was sitting there thinking "Hmmm, so how many will be seduced by this contract rhetoric?".

Pete, they're essentially differentiated by their choice of coalition partner. PDs will drag FF to the right, Labour/Greens will drag FG to the left, granted not too far.

Why did Bertie Ahern keep emphasising that babies born this year would not benefit from the free health care for under 5s? That seemed an utterly irrelevant point. I don't know if Kenny can implement it or not but under Ahern they won't have it this year, the next etc. Seemed like total sophistry.

**jebus** · 17/05/2007, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Is that sarcasm?

I was sitting there thinking "Hmmm, so how many will be seduced by this contract rhetoric?".

Not at all, I generally don't want FG or FF, but given that FF haven't been held accountable for their many, many failings I would prefer a FG government that openly say they will be held accountable for their mistakes or failings

**hoops1** · 17/05/2007, 10:37 PM

Ahearne won the deabte with a bit to spare
Kenny didnt seem to have anything different to bring than what the present government are already doing.
The FG Justice spokesman agreeing that overall serious crime was down worked against him and the fact he was against Thornton hall. Bertie seemed to turn that part of the debate around when Kenny should have really rammed home the broken pledge on Gardai numbers not being met on time.
And Saying they wanted to 2000 extra gardai and only had the finances for 1000.
Did Enda slam his glass down at one stage?
Kenny couldnt really argue on the economy and seem to trip himself up once or twice on figures regarding health

**BohsPartisan** · 17/05/2007, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Ah I don't know, Kenny has made such a big deal of this contract that there will be no way he can stay in office if he hasn't reached his targets in five years, thats why FG are getting my vote

Oh the innocence of youth.
Politicians can make whatever promises they want, turn around and break them and still get people to vote for them. They have been doing it for years. FG are in power on countless local authorities. Their approach to planning is no different to Fianna Fail. Why do you think no FG/Lab coalition ever gets more than one term in office? Simple, its because people vote them in, and every time they turn out just the same and people go, oh yeah, I forgot thats what they do and vote them out next time around. I gaurantee you will be dissapointed with the "alternative" if it gets a chance to take the reigns of power.

Originally Posted by pete

I think the debate showed how similar their policies really are. Voters will just decide whether FF have more experience of implementing or new coalition deserve a chance to implement their promises.

EXACTLY!

(Is that twice this year we've agreed on something?

)

**Poor Student** · 17/05/2007, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Not at all, I generally don't want FG or FF, but given that FF haven't been held accountable for their many, many failings I would prefer a FG government that openly say they will be held accountable for their mistakes or failings

Jebus, it's empty rhetoric.

**galwayhoop** · 17/05/2007, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Jesus you lot should be happy considering Kenny brought up Galway's Third World water supply.

Actually I was surprsied that the nurses strike, Galway's water supply, Rossport and other media friendly issues weren't touched on more

i reckon the water saga is more to do with the county coucil than the government and sure at least we know the water is sh1te while most of the rest of the country THINK theirs is fine. i would rather have a strong economy than drinkable water straight from the tap anyway.

i seriously feel for the economy with a FG/Labour/Greens government. I reckon the reduction in infrastructure spending would be fairly instant and the knock on would be felt throughout. thats why i will vote for the status quo (well FF anyway) even with their faults i think we know what we are and are not getting!