Shane Long

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

We shouldn't be considering Macedonia or Cyprus our direct rivals. That kind of attitude has hindered Ireland in the past and Trapattoni fostered it.

We go into games against poor Austria and Sweden teams looking for a point. It's ridiculous.

I knew the moment David Forde was celebrating that point in Stockholm like we won the World Cup that we would end up falling on our arses and embarrassing ourselves again.

People take the p*ss out of the "pub team" but they have beaten 6 or 7 European powerhouses since the last time we got a result to shout about in a competitive game. Scotland too outplayed teams like France, Croatia and Italy in recent memory yet we laud one single good performance against a big team under Trapattoni (when the players ignored his gibberish) before reverting back to type.

That's one thing I hope Roy Keane in particular will improve in the set up. This attitude of being overawed by teams that are not any better than us.

Then maybe we won't for e.g. get outplayed by teams like Bulgaria and make players like Radostin Kishishev look like Cafu.

Apologies if I'm ranting. Just passionate.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree that we should always look to put Cyprus & Macedonia away, albeit recognising trickiness of the away leg.

Austria and Sweden weren't that poor. Sweden scored 7 times in 2 games against Germany and have one of the world's top 3 forwards. Austria have been improving and have a top player in Alaba. There was nothing wrong with Forde celebrating a point he personally secured in Stockholm with a great save only seconds earlier.

We should have been looking to beat both at home though and the new regime won't set the bar as low as Trap.

NI are no benchmark but Scotland's recent good results show what's achievable.

[OwlsFan]

That's one thing I hope Roy Keane in particular will improve in the set up. This attitude of being overawed by teams that are not any better than us.

He installed such a winning attitude in Ipswich ok. His second season saw them wait 14 matches before their first win.

[geysir]

Lets hope Roy has found a few different methods to use for installing a winning attitude in our team.
Though there could be something in the way he spends so much time preparing and aligning the cones before training.

[DeLorean]

Apologies if I'm ranting. Just passionate.

I suppose Trap's low bar setting brought us from losing 5-2 and drawing 1-1 against Cyprus to winning 1-0 and 2-1 a campaign later. I don't think finishing behind Sweden & Austria was quite as embarrassing as that Cyprus defeat.

I don't see Cyprus and Macedonia as our direct rivals, was just saying that Robbie's goals help ensure it stays that way.

Anyway, I agree with the general point, even if it did bring our off topic Robbie Keane discussion off topic

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Roy Keane did do a great job of repairing Mick McCarthy's mess at Sunderland on the other hand and an attitude of we can beat Portugal and Netherlands is a better attitude than ah a draw against Slovakia or Bulgaria will do us grand.

And how much longer is that Cyprus game going to be used as a stick to beat Staunton with?

You could argue that under Staunton, we drew 0-0 with Germany and lost the other game thanks to a fluky setpiece as opposed to losing 1-6 in our own backyard. You could also argue that we got better results against Slovakia than Trapattoni and played better against a quality Czech Republic team than we did in pretty much any game under Trapattoni.

[DeLorean]

And how much longer is that Cyprus game going to be used as a stick to beat Staunton with?

Indeed... his only blemish.

[paul_oshea]

It can be used as a stick, but everyone uses and rehashes the same point about a very very bad result and performance to compare Traps reign. Its bloody ridiculous, we were way below our ability in that game and a few others of Stans, but stop using it as a performance meter to prove how good Trap was or how well he did to improve us. Too easy to take extremes and takes away from the point being made.

[Charlie Darwin]

That's very interesting Paul since nobody in this conversation has attempted to say anything like Trap did a good job.

[DeLorean]

To be honest, I think the 5-2 reverse to Cyprus epitomised the shambles of Staunton's entire reign. It's not merely a stick to beat him with. I also believe it is a very appropriate yardstick to measure how far Trap brought us during the early part of his tenure. Obviously there are a million and one sticks to beat Trap with otherwise.

[geysir]

That's very interesting Paul since nobody in this conversation has attempted to say anything like Trap did a good job.

It's anticipating the ploy.
Someone sometime was bound to commit the foul and say Trap did a good job.

interesting to see the squad Stan had at his disposal for that game in Stuttgart, I think Andy Reid went missing for some reason. And after that game Stan received a shedload of criticism

Given, Carr, Andy O'Brien, Dunne, Kilbane (Alan O'Brien 83)
Finnan, Reid, O'Shea, Duff (McGeady 77),
Doyle (Elliott 79), Keane.

Subs Not Used: Henderson, Miller, Douglas, St. Ledger.

[SkStu]

Keane is only a goalscoring threat against the smaller nations (Sweden was the exception)

complete and utter bullsh!t.

[osarusan]

complete and utter bullsh!t.

This old argument is brought up about Keane every now and again.

Here's my post from the Keane thread on the 2nd of march last year:

So what you're saying is, if you take out the goals in friendlies and against minnows in qualifiers - he has actually still scored more 'serious' goals than any other player has scored in total international goals?

And on this basis, you exclude him from any list of irish greats?

since then he's scored 5, 3 in qualifiers.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-...ational-goals/

There is a list of his International goals.

Since the World Cup in 2002, the only teams of note that he has scored (from open play) against are Italy in Bari, France in Paris and Sweden in Dublin.

He is not a goalscoring threat against top 2 seed standard International football teams.

Nowhere have I taken away from his record in meaningless matches or against International minnows. It's fantastic and no-one else can or will replicate it. It's the reason why he carved out a respectable career in English football.

Do I think he should start, at age 34 and playing for LA Galaxy, in the 2016 Qualifiers? Yes, if we are playing teams the standard of Macedonia or Armenia. Against other teams, other options should be considered but this is a moot point because if Keane is selected on merit instead of name, then he will probably retire as soon as someone decides to bench him.

34, playing for LA Galaxy, plays poorly against top seeds, didn't cut it at Inter or Liverpool, hasn't played consistently at a high level in over three years.....

He's an Irish footballing legend and I would expect him more than anyone else to nick a goal against Faroe Islands but his record and importance to the team doesn't compare with someone like Miroslav Klose who performs and scores against the best teams in the world for some of the biggest teams in the world; including current team Lazio in Serie A.

Sorry.

[Charlie Darwin]

This old argument is brought up about Keane every now and again.

Here's my post from the Keane thread on the 2nd of march last year:

since then he's scored 5, 3 in qualifiers.

Logic doesn't work with people who criticise Keane's record. They're not starting from a position of logic so they're hardly likely to adopt it when challenged. There are still people who say Ronaldo isn't a great player. We just have to let them occupy that part of the world and not let it get us down.

[tetsujin1979]

fee agreed between West Brom and Hull: http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...-keep-spending
Personal terms yet to be agreed

[ArdeeBhoy]

More fool Steve Bruce?

And good luck Shane...a basket case of a club?

[geysir]

fee agreed between West Brom and Hull: http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...-keep-spending
Personal terms yet to be agreed

Seems to be a sensibly run club. Bruce was given about £12m at the start of the season to spend and now after doing most of the donkey work needed to survive their first season, he has been given a real vote of confidence with another £10m to spend. When Brady returns, the club is not likely to be embroiled in a relegation scrap.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Maybe, but quite a few of their fans don't seem too keen on the current owner...

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't realise that Hull's owner has actually lived there for decades and made his wealth there, employed hundreds of locals etc. I presumed he was a lesser version of Vincent Tan.

Is the club really a basket case? I can see both sides to the renaming argument and I think he's entitled to seek new revenue streams, though I think they could move the club to Beijing and still make little difference to their brand value.

I'm sure Wednesday fans would gladly become the Sheffield Owls if they were to become solvent and a realistic regular top-flight participant