Ok, I thought i'd give this a bash and see how we get on. I'm sure there's quite a few on foot.ie that are actively coaching or looking to get ino it and this could be a good thread to throw about ideas on every aspect of coaching including development, psychology, dealing with parents, winning vs performing, training etc....(MODS please move this if it's in the wrong section - thanks!)
I'll get the ball rolling.........
I've been coaching for about 5 years now - 3 years as a semi-qualified coach (working towards UEFA certification). Currently I hold qualifications in coaching & psychology with the FAI & the English FA. I am also an active member of the FA Coahes Organisation and the National Soccer Coaches Assocation of America. I consider myself very much a novice in the area of coaching but am learning all the time with experience being a key part of that. I've coached at a wide variety of age groups over the last age. I've spent 2 years coaching U-12 & U-13, then 2 years with a Senior Team in Dublin. In between all that I spent 3 months coaching in Massachusetts, USA and am currently living and hoping to coach in the spring & summer months in Toronto, Canada.
I still haven't really made up my mind on what aspect of coaching I prefer - Adult or Kids. I really enjoy the development work with kids and it's great to see improvement in kids without having to worry about results. There's plently of fun and enjoyment in the coaching and it's rewarding knowing that your helping to put someone in love with the game - even if it only means that when they are in their 30's they still love a kick about with the lads. A tricky aspect of all that is convincing parents that winning 20 medals when your 10 or 11 isn't necessarily going to make you a better player and herein lies the main problem with youth football. It can be very trying dealing with parents expectations and can at times eat up time from your coaching. Having a good support team has always been vital for me with younger groups. I take my hat off to those guys coaching kids on their own without much help. It can often be a thankless task. It's amazing how people still think we need to coach kids to win. Play hide and seek with a 3 year old and he'll want to win - there's never any need to coach winning!
On the opposite side, I throughly enjoy the adult amatuer game as I really feel a coach can make a difference to a amatur team. Many teams in the amatuer game play the same system right through the league and get by on physical rather than technical brilliance. Coaching to win is definetly a different game but one that brings good satisfaction when you can bring something new to the table that helps get results. Just even spending time on set pieces in Amatuer Football can make all the differnence and it's a great learning ground as players will constantly question why you want to play in this formation or why you want the ball wide instead of long. You get challenged a lot and I enjoy that aspect of it.
I suppose a happy medium for me would be around the U-16 - U-18 age where playing to win becomes important in the development process. It combines those two aspects that really drive me - performance and winning. The one area i am interested in gaining experience in coaching wise is Women's football. I find the game really intriguing especially after watching the Canadian U-18 team in a match in 2003. The Technical level was truely astonding and the speed of the game was surprisingly fast when watched from the sideline. It's definetly on my to-do list to get a better understanding of the women's game.
Anyone else any thoughts on coaching in general or your different experiences with coaches. I could write forever on my experiences in America and the lessons Irish Football could take from their organisation of the game and that's after only 3 months there but I shall save that for when (If) this thread takes off.
Karlos
Last edited by Karlos; 27/01/2006 at 12:42 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Well Done!
Its about time such a thread was started, and if we want Ireland to return to the glory days there is no doubt that technical skills need to be introduced at a very early age. Street Soccer, the ultimate introduction to football, has long gone, so as a starter, any suggestions on a fun introduction to say, keeping the head up while on the ball?
As a starter! More to come!
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
Ahh, street soccer, those were the days! Nothing like a game of heads and volleys or poles to hone those skills! It's a great point you make though, nowadays kids are getting their fix of footie from the playstation where as not even a generation back we all spent our days out on the street or the local field in all types of weather conditions learning and improving our skills. The biggest challenge we face going forward to keep kids interested and provide them with a fun and rewarding experience that doesn't involve an Xbox or whatever.Originally Posted by MervilleUnited
Well Done!
Its about time such a thread was started, and if we want Ireland to return to the glory days there is no doubt that technical skills need to be introduced at a very early age. Street Soccer, the ultimate introduction to football, has long gone, so as a starter, any suggestions on a fun introduction to say, keeping the head up while on the ball?
As a starter! More to come!
To answer your question on 'keeping your head up' - I'm sure there's 101 exercises out there to do this but there is one that I use alot when doing this and one I find works well and becomes good fun in the latter stages - not sure how well it will come accross in plain text however I'll give it a bash.
I'll use a 20 x 30 or 10 x 15 grid (depending on numbers & possibly age/level) and throw all the kids/adults into it each with their own ball. For now, I'll make the assumption that I've worked with them on how to dribble a ball previously so I'll start by telling them to dribble the ball, keeping it in the area & moving in and out rather than around in circles as you would on a football pitch if you were playing. Usually the first thing that will happen is that people will put their heads down, begin to dribble and run into each other in some shape or form. I allow the mistake to be made first time and then tell them that we'll start again but this time they have to be extra careful not to bump into anyone and explain & demonstrate that to do that we need to keep our head up and scan the area to see whats around us as we are playing.
So after a few times or sessions depending on how quickly this gets picked up players will move around the area without bumping into each other. What I have found is that 90% of the time what looks like a group that totally understands what there doing is more down to 3 or 4 players who are clever enough to get others out of a hole by avoiding them when they go back to putting their head down as will happen.
I usually test this further with a little game that invloves the exact same set up but this time the players must stop the ball on my command when they are dribbling and avoiding each other. First I might use a whistle as the signal to stop the ball and this works well as players also need to be able to respond to verbal or audible signals during the game. I usually let this go for a few times and you begin to notice that it doesn't address the head up problem as players just do their own thing and concentrate on when the whistle is going to blow.
To really work on the head up part once they have got a hold on dribbling, I continue to use the same game but remove the audio signal of the whistle. Instead I'll raise my hand in the air as a silent signal to stop the ball. As the play commences i'll walk around the perimeter of the grid forcing the players dribbling to scan the area - they now must consider the ball, their fellow dribblers and me using the silent signal to stop.
If i use it as a knockout game, it really forces them to constantly scan the area if the rules are that
a) lose control of your ball and your out
b) crash into someone and your out.
c) run the ball out of play and your out
d) fail to stop after my silent signal and your out.
It becomes competitive and fun and again hammers home the point of needing to keep your head up when in possession of the ball. It impossible to succeed at the game without dribbling with your head up.
Just reading it back here to myself, it doesn't sound as much fun as it really is during play. It works well with all ages and levels and just a few months back I was using the same drill with a men's team (obviously with a much higher intensity) and we had some great competitions with it while working on a very important part of the game. I've found I get good results from this drill particulary with younger kids.
As I said this is just a game I use that I have a bit of fun with, there's loads more out there and I'd love to hear a few other suggestions and no one should considers this the only or best method.......
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Very Good, I had forgotten that oneFirst lesson, have a look back at old training notes! A big problem with my under 12 Squad is that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, wants to play in defence. And if you put them there, they sulk, underperform on purpose, and if i persist (Even when I rotate them on a regular basis to other positions, to the detriment of the game) eventually they move on.
Constant reassurance about the team ethos, out the window. An extention of this is the fact today that if kids are not in the starting eleven, they move on, usually to an individual sport. This results in a team that usually picks itself, and therefore training falls off, therefore progress is difficult.
May I add that I structure training sessions in such a way that enjoyment is the priorty, with planning previous, and involving the kids in decision making. A long way from the old days of laps followed by a match. And yet the desire falls away around 12/13 years of age.
In consultation with other clubs, this is a universal problem. The consumer culture means instant satisfaction, or move on. Got help the future of the Irish Squad.
Any thoughts?
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
Wow, where to start! Squad rotation, I feel, is vital at this age for development of the players skills and understanding of the game. To be honest, it's something that needs to be laid down at the beginning of the season and not just with the kids either. 9 out of 10 times Kids leave football teams becuase the parents aren't happy with the amount of time the kid plays. In some cases they are right to do so if there's not a fair chance for everyone but in a lot of cases I've come accross they just don't understand the concept of development and what is required to achieve it. Winning must be thrown out of the window at the earliest opportunity. It's difficult to do but it has to be done. I usually approach both the kids and parents in the same way, I give them two options
1) We can win all our games this year but you (or your son/daughter) will not improve as a player. We'll have a cup and some medals but will fall behind better players when we get to 15 and 16 years of age.
2) We'll forget about having to win all the time and try to work on aspects of our game that will improve us a players. We'll try to play better each game regardless of the result. We might or might not win a league and some medals now but at the end of the season we'll be better players and by the time we are 15 and 16 we will be challenging to win leagues when it matters.
Since I've started doing this at the start of the season, i usually get 100% acceptance of the 2nd option and it takes a little bit of the heat from the parents away as you can always bring the discussion back up when things get out of hand. Saying all that you then must set about trying develop every member of the team and that includes playing them in different positions and resting your best players.
How you deal with losing games becomes important too and parents must be advised to encourage the kids all the time. There should be no coaching from the sideline on a saturday - saturday is for the kids to play and me to observe the work I've done or need to do again. Directly after every game, I have a little 2 minute chat with the kids to send them home positive - 'we did well today, unlucky with the goals we conceeded but there was some great tackling out there at times and we have been working on tackling haven't we? And if our tackling is improving then that means we are getting better and that's what we all said we wanted i.e. to get better. So we'll keep working on tackling in training this week and we'll see if we can do better again next week. We didn't win today but there was a lot of great stuff out there..well done...etc etc etc..."
The problem you mentioned with squad rotation I've come accross many times and I now deal with it in a way that works a lot of the time. I used to give the teamwork speech but over a short space of time I realised that kids don't really know what teamwork is at times. I mean they understand it's a team game but the concept of doing something you don't want to, they can't relate to it.
As a result I now try to discuss this by bringing back the previous discussion about do you want to improve as a player and I usually use Premiership players as an example to hammer it home. Being an Arsenal fan, I usually use Ashley Cole or Henry as an example. I tell the kids that Cole was a striker who played up front but his manager used to sometimes play him as a winger and sometimes as a defender. He played loads of different positions but wanted to be a striker. Had he not played as a stiker, winger & a defender then he probably wouldn't be as good a player as he is now - I usually ask the kids a few questions to hammer home the point - Have you ever seen Ashley Cole defend? Have you ever seen him out on the wing going foward? Have you ever seen him beat a player? Have you ever seen him take a shot at goal etc etc...I always finish by asking the kids the same question no matter what player I'm discussing - Would you like to be a ok striker/defender/midfielder or a brilliant footballer? They'll all say brilliant footballer and you can tell them that brilliant footballers all played in different positions when they were kids! Sounds silly but I've got a lot of kids to buy into squad & player rotation this way. Give them an example with something they know - use Ronaldinho or Zidane etc to highlight your point - it works for me most of the time.
Would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts on this. I mean what works for me mightn't work for others and vice versa
Last edited by Karlos; 02/02/2006 at 6:59 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Thanks for that Karlos, looks like I am availing of some excellent free advice!
In general, most parents do apprecieate all the effort and time given in providing kids with a sporting outlet. I hope!Now, if I can ask the most common coaching problem. The structure of a training session. In my case U8, 10 and U12. Do kids need to stretch? How long is long enough for a drill session? When do you let them play? Is one hour twice a week, or one and half hours once a week beneficial? Any good websites around that could provide a season long training template? In my case, more and more parents need one, so we can all work together, but I simply do not have the time!
Any Takers?!
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
We train our kids once a week for an hour until they go under 10, then we move to twice a week four an hour at a time. Stretching in my experience is not really needed below under 10, I tried to get the kids into the habit as they will have to do it for the rest of their playing days, but they just get bored. On the kickstart 1 FAI training course their was no mention of stretching, just simple games starting at a slow pace.
Please!
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
I've just recently started coaching 5-8 year olds, boys and girls, and am enjoying it immensely. Agree whats been said, getting the kids to enjoy it at this stage is most important, while throwing in a few learning techniques, dribbling, shooting etc. While most kids just want to play matches, we have a match to finish off, but start with dribbling as outlined by Karlos earlier, runnign with the ball and shooting. Also 1 thing the kids love at this age is running backwards, its hilarious watching them.. Any other tips on what else we could throw into the mix..
Hi
Some great topics for discussion. I am a UEFA A coach and i would never do "static stretching (holding a stretch for longer than 8 seconds)" at any part of my session except at the end. Stretching is used to increase "flexiblity", a key component to improving speed, so should be done but only when your body is completely warm ie at the end.
I ready a recent scientific study where they now believe that stretching actually hinders "power" by overstretching muscle fibires in your legs. Hindering power in turn then hinders speed, a hugh no no.
Dynamic stretching is the way to go, looking to mobilize the joints.
Do a look up on Google/Yahoo on
Stretching in Sport
Stretching in Soccer
Dynamic stretching
Dynamic Stretching in soccer
A session should be made up as follows
1/ Dynamic warm up
2/ Speed/reaction work ie ladder work, bouncing ball reactions etc
3/ Ball work, doing drills that will work on the topic you have in mind.
4/ Match, again use it to coach and work on your topic.
5/ cool down & stretch.
This is the basic template to use. The big thing to do is plan a session before hand, get it down on paper and stick to the topic you are working on ie. if you are working on defending then set up your drills and match to work on defending. If a player has a shot in the match dont stop him and go through shooting because thats not what you are working on, you will get confused and flustered quickly and you will confuse the players.
If you are working with a young team or only starting out you wont find a better site than this..
www.bettersoccermorefun.com
It will address allot of issues that you will need to understand and it will give you a great insight into how you should be thinking as a coach. It doesn't give you too many practical drills but will give you a template to begin.
For advanced coaching log on and register with the following...
www.worldclasscoaching.com
& for 100s of drills
www.soccerspecific.com
Finally if you have a choice of two half hours or 1 hour do the 1 hour, you will get more done.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. My thinking on it is, if they learn 1 thing each week at 5-6 years of age, and are enjoying it, then we're doing something good.
And when i say learning, i mean even the basics, how to take a throw in. When can the kepper kick out of his hands etc...
At this age it has to be fun, so can't get too regimental about it..
Anyone read Liam Brady's interview with Kieran Cunningham on The Star yesterday? What some of us coaching hacks already know, it is about time that he spoke up on what is going on with the underage game in the country and it is a pity that a few more did not speak out. Why should there be a win at all costs mentality for under 12s? Why should the ball always have to be whacked long up the pitch rather than the keeper throwing the ball to the full back who then probes a good pass on the deck into midfield and eventually up front, allow our players to play in tight situations and be comfortable on the ball with both feet and all parts of the feet; inside, outside and sole. Brady rightly pointed out that Steve Staunton or Don Givens cannot produce any miracles and it was up to all of us around the country to do the work. Brady warned that it could be years before the Republic can seriously think of making the last 16 of the World Cup unless the coaches at grassroot level get a grip on what they are doing.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!!
Totally agree with you, the pressure on young children is immense. The attempt at non-competitive football for U10s in my area has been problematic, with parents pulling players away unless the right "Result" is maintained.
The reality is that the FAI need to take control directly of the adminstration, by professionals, of the Under Age game. No critisim of any of the volunteer officials at local League level (I am one myself), but in this age of marketing and branding, allied by more and more professional attitudes by the GAA and IRFU, a system, run by independents, that rewards the correct playing of the game, rather than the score, needs to be implemented. Maybe somthing like Playerzone!
We are heading the way of Scotland a few years ago, and the Scottish Parliment took action, with big funding now in place. Lokking at Derry the other night, we are still light years behind the mainland teams in terms of ability to keep hold of the ball.
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
I started coaching in Dublin 10 years ago upon my return from the USA (Im UEFA coach also). I started at both ends of the spectrum - u8s and a senior team. I introduced things to the senior side and was laughed at. Basics like no smoking in the changing room (I kid you not) and warming up before a match and being derided by the opposition. Everyone warms up properly nowadays.
Regarding the under age sides (especially 7-10yo's) the main problem is the pressure put on managers/coaches by the PARENTS. I implemented a coaching schedule based on the successful Ajax/Dutch methods used at the time. Progress was slow as you would expect but it was meticulous and everything was done with a ball. In our first season we got hammered by everyone for the first six months. Opposition managers picking players based on their size and who were more suited to playing rugby who just hoofed the ball and used their strength to muscle in on goal. I told my players to be patient and keep working on their skills and their passing and movement and eventually over time their technique will triumph over brute force. Also children develop physically at different times and eventually they will be as tall and strong as the others but will have superior technique. I also stamped out interference from parents on the line and told the kids not to listen to their parents during a game (that is very difficult to achieve)
The following season we got runners up and semi-finalists in the cup playing the beautiful game the way it should be played. Over the next two seasons we won Leagues and reached Cup Finals and came third in a tournament in Holland beating the Dutch FA Acadamy team on the way. In our first season at 11aside in Dublin the opposition were only concerned about playing the offside-trap. Their whole pre-season was concentrated on playing off-side - at the age of eleven !
I am now back with an u8 team once again and the situation is ten times worse than it was 8/9 years ago. The noise and abuse from parents on the line is un-controllable for a coach to deal with. We have won one and lost two of our opening games and again we are playing against giants. Three players (out of seven) on both of those teams looked as if they were at least eleven. Either the area where I come from just produces midgets or else something strange is going on. Also parents using you as a babysitting service. Dropping them off when they feel like it and collecting them when they feel like it. Sometimes late, sometimes early (in the middle of a session).
My point is that to try and counteract other teams playing rugby players (or bangers) you may find that you lower yourself and your team down to their level and try to win games by hoofing the ball and getting 'stuck in'.
Small but potentially talented players get frustrated when pushed off the ball by these giants and end up packing it in. Look at small players like Saviola and Riquelme or further back like Maradona or Garrincha. Damien Duff should have gone to Spain years ago and he would be twice the player he has detiorated into. No-one ever asked Maradona to track back.
Watching a DDSL U-15 Premier match is like watching Bolton v Blackburn. Every player is over 6 foot and its played at 90 mile an hour with little or no football played.
My other point is the lack of proper winter facilities in this country for kids. All the astro pitches around are very expensive for parents to cough up twice a week (especially if they have 2 or 3 kids) so you train once a week at 5 or 6 o'clock after rushing home from work (sitting in traffic for an hour) and you are in no fit state to train kids.
I witnessed another disgusting trait of the modern footballer recently when I witnessed two players DIVING to win penalties. How old were they ? One of them was eight and the other one was nine. I would love to meet Cristiano Ronaldo in a dark alley some night. Believe me, he wont have to dive.
To Summarise whats wrong with Irish schoolboy football ;
- result orientated managers/coaches
- parents
- facilities
- sky TV and the over-hyped premiership
Thats just my opinion. There can be excuses and arguments for and against the above in the Tiger culture we live in but then Germany had a fantastic economy when they won three World Cups and three European Championships.
Totally, utterly agree with the post above.
And without saying anything controversial, it is encouraged by the powers that be!
If someone could develop a method of measuring and recording the technical positives of a game, that could be used by volunteer coaches, that the games for U8 and 10s could be won on technical merit, not brute force, it may go some way to helping. If games could be won (And I am against that concept for small kids, but maybe harness that attitude for the positive) by awarding points for passing, or doing a trick to beat a defender, or a goalkeeper throwing a ball out rather than kicking it to the other keeper, maybe the culture of win at all costs might change.
I recently had a U10 Blitz at our club, in house, that the winning team was selected by the coaches using a scoring system based on just this, plus the most important aspect, attitude. We explained to the kids, in language they could understand, what was expected, to "win" the tournament. The hoofing stopped!
But one parent accused us of "robbing the heart" of the players, pandering to the weaker players! Make me think that I cannot bring the format elsewhere without abuse!
Suggestions please!
Football is a Simple Game, complicated by fools - Brian Clough
All Sligo Leitrim Youth & Schoolboys Info is live on http://homepage.eircom.net/~mervilleafc/
Great post, agree 100%. Parents are the hardest, they put so much pressure on the kids. I saw it in action last week, where 1 parent was actually screaming at his kid to gat back, the poor kid was terrified. I think parents need to be told , listen I'm the coach, I give instructions from the line, no interference etc..its a hard one though.
Hi This is a great topic and as we all know is only the tip of the iceberg. I think in fairness to the FAI that they are getting there act together and in the near future will be in a postion to implement allot of the above ideas.
Just a few comments on the above:
Liam brady is spot on but he is a bit hypcritical. He is involved with Arsenal and was/is head of there youth development. Can anyone tell me how many English players have come through his set up? Does anyone know why over the last 5/6 years arsenal have spent more money on foreign youth players than any other club in England? Its again easy to comment on the coaching in Ireland but at the end of the day how many coaches are involved in Ireland are working with an U16s team worth £10 million?
In relation to winning verses development its so easy to say that development comes first but if the coaches above actually read there posts they show that although they practice this principal they still tell us that over the 2/3 seasons that they went on to WIN Leagues/cups!
Parents aren't the only ones to blame, its society in general. Did you's lose again today doen't really sound nice. The only way to stop a win at all costs attitude is not to have a league. What i mean is that the teams just play to develope. this is the best way forward at youth level but will only come into place if the FAI and Leagues implement it together.
In relation to parents that are shouting abuse at the side? Take them aside and let them know that its not acceptable and that if they keep it up they wont be welcome. Now that sounds so easy but what happens if that abusive parent is the father of your best player? This is where as a country we need to aggree on a standard and stick to it. If every club had a rule that shouting and abusive behavior wasn't aloud and as a rule you acted on it, than within 1/2 years everyone would be happy?
On the statement about the U15 DDSL teams being like Bolton against Blackburn and how its driven by the powers that be, thats a bit harsh. The Clubs and League officials of that particular league put in more hours than any other League. all the clubs have worked hard to develope there coaches and managers, to improve there facilities and give any player willing to play for them the best of coaching. Im just woundering why you are watching this particular game? obviously you would rather watch this DDSL Premiere game than a match in the lower leagues which leads to the point that it must have actually been a good game to watch.
Please take the above as only comments. Thanks
Im involved in schoolboy football a few years and straight away I would bring in these changes
1 Ban All kick outs in schoolboy football ,Throw outs only kids can only throw the ball so far so play from the back is encouraged
2 Free kicks every time the ball goes above knee height of the referee ala indoor football except for shooting and crossing
3 Abolish all leagues and league tables until u16. There should be one big list
of teams that you can contact of your own accord to organise developemental games
Schoolboy football in Ireland is probably the most competitive in Europe
It needs to curtail the problems that this brings and take a longer view
and see the big picture. That its senior football we are preparing kids for
not winning the u11 or 12 league.While there is nothing wrong with wanting
to win at any age the manner in which you try to achieve the victories is
whats most important
Last edited by hoops1; 05/10/2006 at 12:23 PM.
Champions 2010
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Dick Brush 1 Sligo 0
Bohs are going bust.
A lot of good points on this tread. I think Geraldo is a bit harsh on Brady. His job is to coach the best kids. If they all happen to come from the continent its not his fault, and his words about underage coaching in this country should be heeded.
From next season, the DDSL are scrapping cup competitions from under 10 downwards. This is a start. But I think there should be some degree of competitiveness for the kids.
Always look on the bright side of life
The one i use for the kids is the cone on the head one( not a road cone theWell Done!
so as a starter, any suggestions on a fun introduction to say, keeping the head up while on the ball?
As a starter! More to come!
other ones) get them to put the cone on there heads and dribble around
without it falling off. Its very funny to look at at the start but they get
amazingly good at it and its a bit of fun
Last edited by hoops1; 05/10/2006 at 1:05 PM.
Champions 2010
Champions 2011
Dick Brush 1 Sligo 0
Bohs are going bust.
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