QuoteDerry wage figures are astonishing. Equates to around €48k a week, for a club that averages around 3,000 on the gates.
Those sort of figures just aren't sustainable, long term.
Moving in to that time of the season where clubs financial statements are being published, in one spot thans to John O'Connor over the years. https://twitter.com/chippie1974?lang=en
So far hightlights are Rovers have €2.4mil accumulated hole in last years finances but its was a reduction on 2022 loses. there are implications greater than just the debt in 2024 as 'director loans' mature but that impact will probably only become clearer in 2025 AGM? Its usually held in Jan of a new year after the season review is complete i think was said here previously.
Derry had about STG£1mil in director donation, similar to 2022. Something more concrete than 4th biggest wage bill with DCFC spending STG£2.1mil on wages. Sligo spent €1.3 which is sizable considering last seasons performance and backs up observations made by Sligo fans preseason that their relatively quiet transfer activity this season was due to 2023 spend and multi year contracts.
Cant wait for Dundalk's accounts, will be interesting in general than just to Dundalk fans on the basis of ownership turmoil and maybe even an indication of a particular fee paid to St Pats.....or not! Again how 2024 will compare subsequently will indicate plenty on BA and his ownership and medium/long term committment.
Comparative EFL League 2 figures are an interesting addition to the thread on X
Stockport County the surprise there heading for a £5mil loss as a club that has previously been put in administration with points deductions and could be heading down that road again. Salford are spending 128% of income on wages and the L2 weekly wage average is £1600 if I have read that correctly. While our average is unlikely to be near that some clubs could well be paying more than that average - Richie may have had a pay increase moving to Rovers.
Last edited by Nesta99; 01/05/2024 at 2:53 PM.
Derry wage figures are astonishing. Equates to around €48k a week, for a club that averages around 3,000 on the gates.
Those sort of figures just aren't sustainable, long term.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
They are if you have a Doherty, Kelleher, Desmond/Wilson to fund the club.Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Always a risky strategy having these guys who are happy to pump in say a million a year, there is no doubting their wealth that's fairly obvious, but if they ever get fed up, or move on to another project? I suppose in these particular examples, all 3 are fairly stable in terms of they will continue to invest, maybe.
In our case it would seem Ainscough has a bit of cash, but needs investors to come onboard, then again he too could easily move on, there is no contract in this type of game !
Still, as a fan you will always enjoy the run while the money is there to fund the big wages / general success, I certainly did in our scene 2014-20. That said, a lot forget Dundalk had won 3 in a row before P6 came to town / EL monies poured in post 2016.
Last edited by oriel; 01/05/2024 at 8:29 PM.
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).
Desmond / Wilson have no plans to put more funds into the club
Stockport are an interesting club. After nearly a century of League football, mostly in the 4th tier, they dropped out of the league in 2011 to 5th tier and 2 seasons later down to the 6th tier. The climb back, via 3 promotions will see them back up to Lge One (3rd tier) for next season.
The most recent accounts (2022/23) show they lost £5m, on a turnover of £9m, with ave attendances of 8,790 (9,358 this season). However, they have a benefactor who has put £8m into the club as equity, which indicates that they're stable.
Further, they have impressive plans to redevelop and modernise Edgeley Park from 10,800 capacity to 18,000, with the ultimate aim of becoming an established Championship club:
https://www.stockportcounty.com/stoc...-edgeley-park/
Meanwhile, compare that with the situation at Wrexham, 60 miles away. They've had a very similar climb back up to league status over the same period, including promotion to Lge One for next season. In 2022/23 they had almost exactly the same turnover and losses,while their Hollywood owners have also put £8m into the club. However in their case, this has taken the form of loans at an interest rate of 3.5% over the base rate!
And where it gets really bizarre is that while they, too, are currently enlarging their ground from 10k to 16k, that's not the half of it!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/c4n1wegp847o
Salford City are another interesting case, as you say, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's not a basket case!
Wonder if any of this was part of Jim Gannon's 40 point plan for success!? Probably ahead of its time at Dundalk in the post Anderson era! Salford always seemed to be a FC Manchester type project, working on the back of disillusionment of club ownership in Greater Manchester. Wrexham are making hay when they can imo. Stockport are certainly a club wih potential. There seems to be plent of selling the family silver to get to the money available in the Championship as LoI clubs would chase European qualification. Pity all clubs dont publich accounts.
Last edited by Nesta99; 02/05/2024 at 12:23 AM.
With losses like that on an annual basis, they may have no choice eventually.
Salford is the complete opposite of the FC United model. Salford is essentially a rich(ish) man's plaything. It's just that there are a number of rich(ish) celebrity men involved, and they have a background in football. The club didn't rise from the depths of non-league to League 2 - plus get a lovely new stadium along the way - off their own back. And they're another TV show club as well.
The point is they are not 'bankrolling the club' on an ongoing basis, that myth persists for some reason. Last year's loss cancels out the previous year's profit which shows how crucial it is to win the League, be seeded in CL Q1 and crucially to win that round - which obviously didn't happen last year.
Should that happen again or should we not win the League then a strategic re-think will have to happen but to re-iterate Dermot Desmond and/or Ray Wilson are not bankrolling the club.
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
They wont bankroll something they dont own yet.
Fair enough, support base still seems to me to be rooted in issues among the support base of big clubs in the same city. It may be the play thing of the class of 92 but support comes from among traditional support of the bigger clubs that couldnt be bothered anymore with the big clubs but still get a fix of relative success that is a hard slog for FC United. The origins differ but the picking up of certain supporters may not.
Tbh, Stockport, FCUM and Salford are all different - background, fans, owners, potential etc.
EYG has got it right about Salford, though. They were a decent-enough non-league side who the "Class of 92" (and a wealthy Agent) reckoned they could rocket up the EFL. But despite big investment (at that level), they've found that it's not so easy as it looks, and they're apparently losing a packet.
While they too, like Wrexham(?), may have unrealistic ambitions. For example, I've been to their stadium. It's a standard, new(ish) identikit stadium, in a surprisingly leafy/affluent suburb of Greater Manchester - certainly nothing like the image of Salford Docks! That said, at 6k capacity, imo it's perfectly adequate for their present status, even if it's not exactly where they'd like it to be.
However, that didn't stop them from trying to combine with Sale RFC to buy a 12k stadium a couple of years ago, the idea since abandoned:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...witch-25798167
Anyhow, the point for LOI comparisons is that if they get it right, those three clubs have a clear pathway up the pyramid to aim for. The problem there is that unless they can get to the PL (v.unlikely for all three), then it's almost impossible to make money in the Championship, even breaking-even is a huge challenge.
Whereas the LOI equivalent for advancement must be to hope for European football, the problem there being that only 4(?) clubs can achieve it at any one time, with those 4 normally being drawn from the same small group of clubs each year.
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