It's just so childishOriginally Posted by Stuttgart88
A bit daft to label such people Kennyites imho.
It's just so childish
There was a lad on here around 2009-ish who hated Trap - the word 'Crapattoni' springs to mind. As well as 'Kevin Kilbad' and 'Paul McShame.' Think I made the mistake of engaging once.
There was much more craic with the lads who fetishized David Connolly and Sean St. Ledger, and wouldn't hear any praise of their selection rivals.
Edit - Tets, you'll have to move this post too. It doesn't make sense now.
Last edited by Supreme feet; 01/04/2023 at 6:11 PM.
Was it really off topic to call out the nonsense that has been building up Tets?
I'd like Kenny to succeed because I do think his ideas are roughly the right ones. I'm sure others here are the same.
But it's a bit sweeping to say "their continued support comes in spite of a fairly substantial body of evidence at this point to suggest that he unfortunately isn't capable of taking us where we need to go". That doesn't apply to me for example.
I challenged a poster (Trequartista I think it was) to name some Kennyites here. There was no reply. Who do you think they are? I think the posters who refer to them are engaging in strawman arguments
I really don't see the issue in calling supporters of Stephen Kenny "Kennyites". Certainly I - personally - don't mean it in a derogatory way, even if I strongly disagree with the sentiments being expressed.
My own view is that continuing to fully support Stephen Kenny given the issues we have seen during his time in the job requires a sufficient degree of belief in his principles that such a description is not unwarranted.
Whether we like it or not, the man has been in the job long enough now that it's not unreasonable to take a view on whether he is up to it or not. My view is that he isn't, as evidenced by repeated tactical errors which have led to consistently poor results. His poor communication in public also raises further concerns - though I could overlook that if his teams were doing the business on the pitch. Unfortunately they are not.
Others have presumably seen something different to suggest he'll come good.
I suppose we'll know either way in a year's time at the very latest.
Last edited by Eirambler; 01/04/2023 at 6:28 PM.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Done
Well, in the sense that it doesn't really have anything to do with Qualifying Group B, probably. And there's a thread in the support forum about it.
Would it not have been better to move it to the Stephen Kenny thread in that case. I think it's legitimate for a pushback to the stupid labeling of "Kennyites". Unless u remove all posts that use that term I think it's fair that there can be discussion about how silly it is
I don't see the issue with calling them Kennyites either - the problem is that I'm not sure who they are, and no-one can seem to say.
It's taken on a meaning of anyone opposed to Kenny's immediate sacking, tarring and feathering in retaliation for the national disgrace he's caused us. That's not right.
That's why I think there's a lot of frustrating strawmanning going on lately.
Presumably we all agree that mypost is a Kennyite. The most extreme example on the forum. Anyone who doesn't agree on that point, well I can't contribute with them further because to disagree with that would be the equivalent of calling Boomshakalaka a Kenny supporter.
In terms of anyone else - it probably depends on their own views of how long they would be willing to support him if results in competitive games don't take a fairly sizeable upswing.
My own view would be that if someone, for instance, believes that he should continue in the post even if we fail to qualify for Euro 2024 (having already fallen well short in both the Euro 2020 playoffs and the World Cup 2022 qualifiers), that would make them a fairly dyed in the wool Kenny Supporter/Kennyite. Because in that situation not only are they supporting him, they're also supporting his continued failure to deliver results in the job.
I suspect though, when we don't qualify for Euro 2024 (because I don't have any confidence that he has what it takes to get us there) there will be plenty on here suggesting he is kept on. And continuing to suggest that calling them a Kennyite, or any phrase that denotes them as a Kenny supporter, is childish or stupid or whatever other put-down suits their position at that time.
Last edited by Eirambler; 01/04/2023 at 7:22 PM.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
So the only achievement that would see him kept on would be qualifying out of a group with France and the Netherlands? Most would agree that it’s an almost impossible task. No context seems acceptable in how you’ve articulated it ER and that’s way too black and white. There are multiple scenarios that I can see where he’d have earned another contract/campaign (and many where he won’t have) outside of qualification via the group.
I seen mypost mentioned as a Kennyite but if his views are an example of unreasonably extreme pro-Kenny views then there is a larger contingent that similarly holds unreasonably extreme anti-Kenny views.
On a more humorous note, there were a large contingent of Bohs fans who anointed themselves Rodestants when Collins got sacked after winning the double. It still makes me laugh. Some still keep to that particular faith!!
I'll agree on mypost. And BOOMers is the other extreme. I think almost everyone else falls into the middle ground, which is why I think the term is bandied about far too often.
I think mypost and BOOMers just lack the ability to engage in discussion and just dictate to you why they're right. That's the problem, not which end of the stick they're holding. That's a problem with any poster on any message board.
You've got to bear in mind though that we're in the group we're in because of Kenny. We're touch and go for the playoffs because of Kenny. He made an absolute mess of the Nations League group and that has brought about both of those situations.So the only achievement that would see him kept on would be qualifying out of a group with France and the Netherlands? Most would agree that it’s an almost impossible task. No context seems acceptable in how you’ve articulated it ER and that’s way too black and white. There are multiple scenarios that I can see where he’d have earned another contract/campaign (and many where he won’t have) outside of qualification via the group.
I seen mypost mentioned as a Kennyite but if his views are an example of unreasonably extreme pro-Kenny views then there is a larger contingent that similarly holds unreasonably extreme anti-Kenny views.
On a more humorous note, there were a large contingent of Bohs fans who anointed themselves Rodestants when Collins got sacked after winning the double. It still makes me laugh. Some still keep to that particular faith!!
So the grouping with France and the Netherlands can't really be looked at in isolation. We're there because of poor management which left us as third seeds, which left open the possibility that we might get a horror draw. Now it's time to see if he can dig us out of the hole he dropped us in.
Don't get me wrong, if we have a really progressive campaign and narrowly miss out to France and Netherlands then there's probably justification in sticking with him at least into the playoffs if we're there. But, at the same time, if we lose to Greece in June if there really any point persisting with him? We're obviously not going to even challenge in the group if we lose that one, let alone qualify from it.
I never like seeing a manager's future being decided based on one game, but that situation usually comes about because repeated underperformance has led to that situation. So it's not really one game. And that's the case again here.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Lads, Eirambler made a detailed post on his feelings about the French game and what needs to be achieved if Kenny is to survive in the Stephen Kenny thread but he received a childish reply by another poster instead of actually engaging with his post. This is a regular thing on this forum. Kenny supporters throw their toys out of the pram when criticism is sent his way. People threatening to leave the site etc. It's a complete overreaction. People have different opinions. People can be really positive about Kenny and others can disagree with that and vice versa.
I got an infraction for calling out a posters lies. He asked me to explain the French managers thinking with his team pick vs Ireland as if I'm good friends with Didier Deschamps. His lie was allowed to remain on the forum, I got an infraction for ignoring him. Certain posters seem to have carte blanche, others get the dirty end of the stick.
You were asked to provide clarification and ignored it.
You've a long history of appearing on the forum around the time of internationals, stirring up needless arguments and disappearing until the next international window.You should read it, and then answer the question, in the next 24 hoursThat's Tchouameni who has started in 17 out of his 23 caps for France? "doesnt start much". Thats as far as I read, was too busy laughing at that nonsense to read the rest.
Other posters are given more leeway because they engage.
Thinking about a GoFundMe for a Kennyites Society.
Thinking banners, pom pommed cheer leaders dressed as Riverdance girls. Everywhere he goes, we'd aim to be.
Stephen Kenny Saviour, Leader, Winner, An Autobiography - In All Good Bookstores Now
I think we covered off most of this a week or two ago (see below - i've pulled from the post i made). In that exchange, I provided an analysis of Irelands seeding going back to 2010 and, if i recall correctly, we have been 3rd seeds in all but two campaigns since then (once we were 2nd, once we were 4th). So there was no ground lost. Opportunity missed, perhaps, but that is debatable in a group with Scotland and Ukraine. The likelihood is that we would have been 3rd seeds going into the draw for this campaign and, as such, were always going to be open to the worst possible luck - which is how i'd categorize getting Netherlands and France as your top two seeds. To say he should have been second seeds is a standard that not many other previous managers going back to 2009 rankings have achieved - and those were squads with an objectively stronger playing pool in many cases. In short, he didnt drop us in a hole - he kept us in the same hole to which we have been accustomed for the best part of a generation. Its ridiculously harsh to take that perspective, if you ask me.
Below looks at (L-R) - tournament; seeding/pot; year of assessment; ranking at time of assessment (note that the ranking for Euros is different).
WC 2010 – 3rd pot (2007) – 35
Euro 2012 – 3rd seeds (2009) – 25*
WC 2014 – 3rd seeds (2011) – 33
Euro 2016 – 2nd seeds (2014) – 19*
WC 2018 – 4th seeds (2015) – 42
Euro 2020 – 3rd seeds (2018) – 23*
WC 2022 – 3rd seeds (2020) – 52
Euro 2024 – 3rd seeds (2022) – 26*
Last edited by SkStu; 03/04/2023 at 12:32 PM.
This thread (arguably swathes of this forum) has degenerated from a discussion on what behaviour merits infractions and suspensions, to – what a surprise! – Stephen Kenny. It’s wearying at this stage that a small number of posters are able to drag everything into the mire, and pitiful that any poster’s existence seems predicated on their fanatical beliefs (not opinions – I value those) about somebody else who they’ve never met and never will.
What are they like in real life?
I see the Ukrainians are launching a counter-offensive.
- Well, I hope they attack better than Kenny.
- A bit like Kenny’s Ireland – it doesn’t matter if they lose, so long as there's signs of progress.
I hear Trump will be charged tomorrow.
- I hope Stephen Kenny isn’t sorting his defence.
- If he nearly gets off, that’s good as Kenny’s moral victory against the French.
It’s not that glasses are half empty or half full; it’s that some posters are drinking pure poison. It doesn’t take long for any mention of Kenny to remind me of the intransigence of the Trump thread in the Current Affairs section – but at least there were posters there who had a range of interests and a viewpoint there was no indication of one elsewhere. I fell out with people there, and minutes later was nodding in agreement with them in the Ireland thread, or LoI, or wherever.
I don’t post here as much as I used to – partly down to starting a new role at work 18 months ago and having a lot less time, but partly because there are posters here who I don’t want to engage with. I don’t find them reasonable, accommodating, well-informed, interesting – they add nothing to my enjoyment of the site, or knowledge of Irish football. And, maybe it’s coincidence, but as these have become more prominent, other posters who provoked and prodded, made me laugh inappropriately out loud in public and change my mind, all the while being open to changing theirs, have disappeared.
I’m avoiding terms like wum and troll, and name-calling, even using names: there’s been too much of that, and all it does is entrench viewpoints. In any case, everybody reading this will know the other posters this is referencing. And that’s part of the problem: too often, it is the other poster – there’s precious little self-reflection that maybe they’re thinking the same of us.
All I want to see is more consideration in posts: nobody with a civil tone would ever be suspended. Dial back the 'nought to nuclear' instinct. Try to understand where somebody else is coming from. Punch hard when it’s needed – but only when it’s needed.
Is that too much to ask?
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
Spot on EG. Sorry for my part in all of this, everyone. As I've said before, I am annoying myself with many of my contributions to the topic at this point - never mind everyone else. I will take Adam's advice and just try to completely disengage on this topic and with some posters going forward. Apologies again - and wish me luck LOL
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