All Hands on Deck !Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
While responsibility can be apportioned out on the whole debacle for sure, I just think the bottom line, for me, is that it is simply unacceptable that you walk out on your teammates and your country on the eve of a World Cup - no matter how right you think you are.
I cant give u cctv footage
But I'm pretty sure this is accepted as fact by those who were there( the whole squad)
Are u saying its false?
Will Smith would disagree!
I'd agree with you if I thought he walked more so than was pushed. But I suppose it rests on that in a way. For me, McCarthy wanted him gone and called the meeting to make that happen.
We had a chance at that WC. Keane knew it. It sounds, from what I'm reading here, that most posters thought the same. I try to put myself in the shoes of our best player and captain arriving to the farce of Saipan, which was the culmination or at least continuation of years of neglect, mismanagement and incompetence on behalf of the FAI. Would I sacrifice my last (only) chance at a WC to call it all out? Maybe. I'd certainly want to make a point. I think that's how he saw it in the end. And I dont really blame him for that.
But there's layers to it and angles and almost everyone here has a fair enough take even if I come down fairly firmly on Keane's side. I can completely see why you'd be on the other side.
I think there's a lot underlying that row and handshake though.
I agree there's nuances to the whole thing, but I think Keane throughout his career seems to have held unhelpful grudges, and I think in the end that contributed more to Saipan than whatever McCarthy may have done. Maybe he thought it was for the best - people not pulling what he saw as their weight or what have you.
And I agree the FAI do seem to have been a bit of a shambles.
Yeah all fair. Certainly a man to hold a grudge. Sometimes it probably helped, sometimes it definitely didn't. I managed him just fine in Champo though so.....
Keep Will Smiths name out ya fckin mouth!
According to the quotes here - https://www.theguardian.com/football.../sport.comment - McCarthy's nationality was not mentioned
That's not to say Keane didn't call him that another time"Mick, you're a liar... you're a ****ing ******. I didn't rate you as a player, I don't rate you as a manager, and I don't rate you as a person. You're a ****ing ****** and you can stick your World Cup up your arse. The only reason I have any dealings with you is that somehow you are the manager of my country! You can stick it up your ********."
The phrase "manager of my country " has a fairly similar connotation I guess
To be fair, Wills actions were worse than Keane's and nobody sent him home from the Oscars. It's a shame Chris Rock wasn't managing Ireland for the WC in a way. Might have been a better choice for those games against Gibraltar as well.
I'll just grab my coat there.
Ah come on. You wouldn't say "manager of the team representing our shared heritage"!
You could say "somehow you are the manager!" or "somehow you are the Ireland manager!"
The phrase used is very strange and has a clear connotation that Ireland is not McCarthy's country. Would you say to Ogbene that he's done well so far "playing for my country"?
Last edited by pineapple stu; 12/05/2022 at 5:23 PM.
No but I also wouldn't say he's done really well for "my team" because I'm not on it!
I think it's a stretch to look for something in a turn of phrase here unless he emphasized the "my" and waved a proclamation in the air at the same time. If I was at work and had an issue with my manager and I said, "I don't like you but I'll do what you say because you're the manager of my team (or a manager at my company)" it wouldn't be implying that it wasn't also his team or that I had more ownership over it than he or she did.
Replace McCarthy with Kenny and Keane could say the same thing with no problem.
If only Stephen Ward's whatsapp account had been around in those days. We'd have had the full, unadulterated scoop within seconds.
Fairly fundamental difference between "my team" and "my country" though.
He is absolutely 100% clearly stating that mick is a different nationality to him.
I suppose if you say it in your head with the emphasis on the "my" then you'd have a point.
We went pretty quickly from accusations of overt racism to arguing over semantics though which I think highlights that it wasn't really very clear and certainly shouldn't have been such a big deal when taken in context. Worse is said between teammates, players and managers in the heat of the moment all the time.
Clinton Morrison said he said it.
Niall Quinn said he never questioned McCarthy's nationality.
People remember things differently
Oh to be a fly on the wall
Folding my way into the big money!!!
All the flies were in the ointment in Saipan unfortunately...
it does... but i could also credibly imagine Roy saying the same thing to Steve Staunton if Roy's retirement didn't coincide with Stan's appointment
i guess it's a touch of egomania. we may be all from ireland but it's Roy's country more than anyone else's
Last edited by elatedscum; 13/05/2022 at 1:09 AM.
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