If Finn Harps can manage the travel this season, there's no NI club who should have any trouble. We're a small country. Took me all of 4.5 hours to travel from Carlow/Kilkenny border to Letterkenny today. Roughly 6 hours from Tralee to same. We're not going to outer Mongolia or anything.Originally Posted by culloty82
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
If all else were in place, then I'm sure the travel would not be a deal-breaker.
But I cannot see any way past the opening "If".
That depends what you mean by 'large'.
The CSO definition of a large town is one with a population of 10,000+. For me that would be more of a medum-sized town, with a large one being 20,000+ (i.e. Sligo, Athlone, letterkenny).
So if we take a population of 20,000 as providing a solid base from which to grow support for a potential LOI club, there are quite a few places without an LOI club currently =
- Swords (40,000).
- Navan (30,000).
- Kilkenny (27,000).
- Ennis (26,000).
- Carlow Town (25,000).
- Newbridge (23.000).
- Portlaoise (23,000).
- Naas (22,000).
- Mullingar (22,000).
- Cellbridge (21,000).
- Letterkenny (20,000).
Could some of those locations support a viable LOI club ? I personally believe so anyway. Obviously Kilkenny and Newbridge have tried previously - but in a different era, where there was significantly less support and income generally across the league.
Last edited by EatYerGreens; 16/05/2023 at 12:36 AM.
- Swords (40,000). Fingal II?
- Navan (30,000). Bernard O'Byrne in Athboy?
- Kilkenny (27,000). CK United.
- Ennis (26,000). Treaty supporters?
- Carlow Town (25,000). CK United.
- Newbridge (23.000). Klub Kildare.
- Portlaoise (23,000). Any possibility of an Offaly Laois partnership?
- Naas (22,000). Klub Kildare.
- Mullingar (22,000). Athlone supporters?
- Cellbridge (21,000). Klub Kildare
- Letterkenny (20,000). Finn Harps or Derry City supporters?
As always, any new clubs should start off in the youth leagues.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
Although Celbridge is in Kildare, the ground that Klub Kildare play in is 28km from Celbridge while Tallaght is 17km and Inchicore is 20km away
Paaatrick's Agletic
"Always"?
There has been one attempt so far and it remains to be seen whether that attempt will succeed. And even assuming it does, how many other Kerry FC's are there waiting in line to repeat the trick? Realistically you would need another 8 (minimum) or 10 or 12 (ideally) to add a genuine third tier to the pyramid. And whatever else it is, a cobbled-together league consisting of LOI Reserve teams, College teams and elevated Youth teams etc would not constitute a a third tier.
This is because to form a genuine next step in a pyramid, theoretically at least, every participating club should be able/aspiring to get promotion to the FD, and from there the PD. (And yes, I know that in practice, the majority would not be likely to do so any time soon, if ever).
While at the same time, any FD/PD club which hits hard times should know that there is a viable third tier for them to drop down to, without it jeopardising their very existence as a Senior, professional club.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 16/05/2023 at 10:31 AM.
I get the vibe that those who support a pyramid think it's the only possible way to succeed, this seems to me a very eurocentric way of thinking.
Our sporting culture is set by the GAA, which has representative teams at the elite level. Junior and intermediate clubs seem happy out as they are, so why make them change their fundamental nature? Seems to me like the Kerry model is the way forward
Are Kerry really the model if - like Cabo and others before them - they can't make the most of their early momentum because they're utterly awful on the pitch?
Dismissing a pyramid as Eurocentric is a bit bizarre. It works outside Europe too. For a reason
Last edited by pineapple stu; 16/05/2023 at 1:02 PM.
I think I see your problem here.
That is, the domestic version of a global, professional sport is being framed by how they do things in a separate, localised and amateur sport which is hardly played anywhere outside of Ireland.
No offence, but that is parochial thinking. Literally.
Even the GAA have a pyramid structure at club level and also intercounty level for hurling, it works very well.
A pyramid structure cannot succeed in this jurisdiction while there is a misalignment with seasons. If it was all summer seasons or winter seasons, then the FAI wold stand a much better chance of implementation a pyramid but no established clubs with ambition move up into LOI will make the move in its current form.
We can't be solely dependant on the formation of new clubs like Kerry if the league is to grow. Its great that that pathway exists for locations that it suits but you need existing clubs wanting to step up as they will have an established base and identity to build from.
And it is that same misalignment alone which is likely to scupper any hope of expansion via some sort of AIL.
For even if a sufficient number of Senior NI clubs were prepared to switch to a summer season (debateable), it would consequently dismantle NI's pyramid. And considering how much work has gone into building it in the first place, I cannot see NIFL, the IFA and the remaining Senior clubs, plus Intermediate/Junior clubs liking that either.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that while the LOI's move to a summer season may have brought short-to-medium term gains, it has caused an equally big, or greater, problem over the long term.
Kerry is one route forward. There is no one size fits all. The one blueprint Kerry have set is to build up through the youth leagues. While Kerry have the backing of all district league clubs that will not be the case everywhere.
Realistically a third tier will be a mix match of reserve teams and first teams graduating from the youth league. Most have acknowledged there is a tier required between the U19s and LoI.
If Mullingar are reluctant to get behind Athlone, it's an example of an area that might benefit from the rivalry of having two clubs. East v West.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
The difference being that the gains it has delivered are actual and tangible, whilst the alleged problems are academic and notional. Becuase there is currently no move to introduce a deep pyramid - and no clamour to have one - so the misaligned seasons don't matter right now. There was no pyramid under Winter football eother, so it's not as if Summer football is the sole r even primary barrier to that happening (will and interest is).
I'd be pretty confident that if a survey was held asking LOI fans if they'd rather stick with a Summer season or revert back to a Winter one, a large majoriity would vote for the status quo. Which again shows that there is no real problem at play here (only for those interested in fantasy pyramid formations).
Anyone I know from the Mullingar area who was interested n LOI gravitated more towards Longford Town, which is quite a bit closer (40kms v 60kms). Though that could also have bene due to the fact that Longford had a strong period 20yrs ago whilst Athlone have been fairly rubbish since the early 1980s.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of that post, it doesn't actually address the main point I was making, which was that the summer/winter issue would on its own scupper any realistic hope of expansion via an AIL.
While in ROI, it mitigates against expansion of the pyramid beyond the present two levels. Fair enough if people are genrally happy with a summer LOI and all the rest, but this whole thread is about expansion of the LOI beyond two divisions.
Or are you just looking for any old excuse to have a pop at me?
Again.
I believe an AIL will probably be introduced as a result of political change on the island. In those circumstances, it will happen regardless of league misalignment. A solution will be found.
An AIL is only a fringe option for expanding the range of the LOI anyway. A third tier will be in place way before that.
Ahh Jaysus - would you ever grow up
#insecure
I took a quick look at Mullingar Athletic's website just now.
They have a hugely impressive Facilities Development Plan under way and good luck to them. But with the way all that space and money is given over to extra pitches etc, rather than eg expanding their main stadium, it seems clear that their whole thrust is towards developing as a Community club, not towards becoming a senior LOI club.
Which is absolutely no criticism btw - quite the contrary in fact - but if a town like Sligo can sustain an LOI club, why cannot a similarly sized town like Mullingar do the same?
It can surely only be a lack of aspiration rather than a lack of potential - same as for another dozen or more Mullingars throughout the country, I suspect.
(Note that the new Spectator Main Stand is only Phase Four)
https://mullingarathleticafc.com/fac...lan-2023-2030/
Last edited by EalingGreen; 16/05/2023 at 4:22 PM.
Cabos early strong crowds were all people connected with the club though, plus they didn't have a proper base like Kerry do with MH. Kerry seem to have captured the imagination of people who had no previous involvement with the club which is very encouraging
There are 2 main clubs in Mullingar - Town and Athletic. I can never remember which is which, but one has decent support within the town, whilst the other has much less support but far better facilities. One is also in a more central location, whilst the other is on the edge of a housing estate. Again - I can never remember which is which.I took a quick look at Mullingar Athletic's website just now.
They have a hugely impressive Facilities Development Plan under way and good luck to them. But with the way all that space and money is given over to extra pitches etc, rather than eg expanding their main stadium, it seems clear that their whole thrust is towards developing as a Community club, not towards becoming a senior LOI club.
Which is absolutely no criticism btw - quite the contrary in fact - but if a town like Sligo can sustain an LOI club, why cannot a similarly sized town like Mullingar do the same?
It can surely only be a lack of aspiration rather than a lack of potential - same as for another dozen or more Mullingars throughout the country, I suspect.
(Note that the new Spectator Main Stand is only Phase Four)
https://mullingarathleticafc.com/fac...lan-2023-2030/
I don't think it's reasonable for @Outspoken to claim that "Mullingar will never have an LOI club". Both Town and Athletic were doggedly tryinng to get into the LOI back in 2002 when Kildare got awarded their place. Mullingar Town played in the old Eircom U21 league 20yrs ago as a stepping stone to full senior participation. At the time the club was bankrolled by Jim Moore - a wealthy local man with a bg building firm in London, who shipped over a load of players from England and spent more than €100,000 on the club to show they could work at LOI level. If memory serves me right this means that Town were the club with the better resources but the weaker local support. There has long been bad bloody between the 2 clubs in Mullingar, and Moore pumping money into Town only exasperated that.
There is no reason why Mullingar couldn't make an LOI club viable. It certainly has the population, and as a former 'garrison town' it has a longstanding interest in football/soccer too. Local footballng politics would appear to be the main barrier tbh.
If they got 1k at games from within the club, is that a problem? That's supposed to be one of the benefits of a strong community setup after all
You could also add Kildare and maybe Wexford too (can't quite remember) who started off with good crowds but they faded when the team weren't great.
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