2022 Season, Arrivals and Departures

[pineapple stu]

You're welcome to make an argument against the open hypocrisy out of Richmond if you want.

[Jack B]

It's apparently only 6720 nautical miles from Dublin port to the Port of Karachi, poor form from us not to just stick Kerr and Ger O'Brien on a boat over.

[pineapple stu]

Joking aside, when it comes to sustainability a lot of companies (not just Pat's obviously) are bleating about the great things they're doing and keeping shtum about the bad things they're doing (and flying long-haul is actually up there in terms of the worst things an individual can do for the environment).

Unfortunately any benefit out of making your jersey out of recycled plastic or whatever it was is going to be dwarfed by this, and so while we keep collectively burying our heads in the sand about negative impacts, then climate change will continue apace.

If Pat's are going to pat themselves on the back for sustainability over their jerseys, I think it's worth calling things like them out for this. Bit of balance never hurt.

[patsdad]

Joking aside, when it comes to sustainability a lot of companies (not just Pat's obviously) are bleating about the great things they're doing and keeping shtum about the bad things they're doing (and flying long-haul is actually up there in terms of the worst things an individual can do for the environment).

Unfortunately any benefit out of making your jersey out of recycled plastic or whatever it was is going to be dwarfed by this, and so while we keep collectively burying our heads in the sand about negative impacts, then climate change will continue apace.

If Pat's are going to pat themselves on the back for sustainability over their jerseys, I think it's worth calling things like them out for this. Bit of balance never hurt.

Now I'm wondering if you were actually being serious, or are you just trying to dig a bigger hole to justify your lame joke.

Are you seriously suggesting that talented young Pakistani soccer players should be denied the opportunity to come to Ireland to develop their career? Do you also apply that to Pakistanis who come here to study medicine? Or to work? Are you saying that flying long-haul can't be justified in any circumstances? Find me any climate change expert who makes that claim - and who hasn't attended any of the annual Climate Change COPs to which climate change activists fly long-haul from all over the world.

[pineapple stu]

Nope, it's serious. You can read the recent National Geographic issue on sustainability (Oct 21 I think) as a starting point if you want to see flying described as I did (particularly long-haul, because of the way emissions interact in the upper atmosphere - flying has something like twice as much climate change impact per unit of CO2 than other carbon emissions).

Climate change doesn't give a damn about individual rights unfortunately. If you're that worried about their careers, why not look to let the local football league develop rather than undermining the league by taking away any underage talent as soon as they show any potential?

[D24Saint]

Nope, it's serious. You can read the recent National Geographic issue on sustainability (Oct 21 I think) as a starting point if you want to see flying described as I did (particularly long-haul, because of the way emissions interact in the upper atmosphere - flying has something like twice as much climate change impact per unit of CO2 than other carbon emissions).

Climate change doesn't give a damn about individual rights unfortunately. If you're that worried about their careers, why not look to let the local football league develop rather than undermining the league by taking away any underage talent as soon as they show any potential?

That has certainly sucked the life right out of our little PR stunt.

[Longfordian]

Can Kerr and co not just assess these lads via YouTube and fly them over only when they're signing? Worked well for Dundalk.

[patsdad]

Sorry, Pineapple, I’ll leave you to your views on this one.

[pineapple stu]

That has certainly sucked the life right out of our little PR stunt.

Ye started it with the comment about the jerseys!

Sorry, Pineapple, I’ll leave you to your views on this one.

It's a pity that you've no debate in you at all about it tbh. It's an important topic, and only going to get more so in the coming years.

[patsdad]

It's a pity that you've no debate in you at all about it tbh. It's an important topic, and only going to get more so in the coming years.

I know that better than most as I have worked professionally on climate change issues. There is no disagreement from me that emissions have to be reduced drastically in aviation just as in road transport, agriculture etc. That doesn’t mean you have no long-haul travel, no more than it means you have no trucks and no cows. People flying from one country to another to further their career or help others further theirs is not the type of travel that anyone wants to prevent. I go back to the question implied in my first post. Are you opposed to Asian medical students coming to Ireland?

[desaintsno.12]

Joking aside, when it comes to sustainability a lot of companies (not just Pat's obviously) are bleating about the great things they're doing and keeping shtum about the bad things they're doing (and flying long-haul is actually up there in terms of the worst things an individual can do for the environment).

Unfortunately any benefit out of making your jersey out of recycled plastic or whatever it was is going to be dwarfed by this, and so while we keep collectively burying our heads in the sand about negative impacts, then climate change will continue apace.

If Pat's are going to pat themselves on the back for sustainability over their jerseys, I think it's worth calling things like them out for this. Bit of balance never hurt.

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.

[Neish]

Carrillo comes in with a half decent bit of pedigree too. Most of his career in the Spanish third tier, and the last four years in the Slovakian premier. Played with FC Senica last season, same club as Kris Twardek is after joining Bohs from, as Joey said.

It'll be interesting to see how he adjusts to the LOI, the Donegal weather, and picking up the language, as I understand his English isn't too great.

Sure we'll learn him English good in Ballybofey, he will always mind it

[pineapple stu]

I know that better than most as I have worked professionally on climate change issues. There is no disagreement from me that emissions have to be reduced drastically in aviation just as in road transport, agriculture etc. That doesn’t mean you have no long-haul travel, no more than it means you have no trucks and no cows. People flying from one country to another to further their career or help others further theirs is not the type of travel that anyone wants to prevent. I go back to the question implied in my first post. Are you opposed to Asian medical students coming to Ireland?

I didn't say that you can't have any long-haul travel. And of course I agree that there are other factors in climate change. (Aviation emissions are estimated at 4-5% of the total impact of climate change, so while it's relatively small compared to, say, agriculture, it's not insignificant and the challenge from the UN is to reduce carbon emissions by 50% in the next ten years.)

So for Pat's to be patting themselves on the back over a sustainable new kit, and then go flying people half way around the world to scout some Pakistani teenagers for the privilege of joining Pat's U19 team, is clearly worth calling out. Are you telling me that that's a level of football that simply isn't available in Pakistan? The issues of underage transfers abroad have dogged Irish football for decades - both in terms of the players themselves and the league - and I'd say there's a strong argument that flying teenagers half way around the world to join the Pat's 19s really is the sort of transport that we should be looking to prevent.

The issue of Asian medical students is tangential - primarily because they at least are on a solid professional path, whereas teenage footballers aren't, and really the idea of comparing some speculative scouting trips to Pakistan with medical student exchanges is daft to start off with - but the overall impact of large-scale emigration still isn't as clear-cut as you make out, partly because of the brain drain impact on the countries these people are leaving, which nobody seems to care about. Brain drain afflicted Ireland for decades, of course, so we should know about it; it makes it really hard for a developing country to grow its economy. So the gap between the rich and the poor economies in the world will continue to grow, the movement of people will continue to increase, and airline emissions continue to rise as more and more people take long-haul flights that they simply wouldn't have taken 10/20 years ago. Is that a good thing? It's why I said the bigger picture trumps people's individual "rights". (If you want to limit to just studying, then the lesson of the past two years is that increasingly remote study is a very real option if Asian colleges aren't good enough)

You can compare it to club football in a way - increased freedom of travel since 92 in particular has led to far less competitiveness and far more concentrated wealth across European football, to the extent now that even the Champions League seems to be broken and utterly predictable. Yes, some professional Asian footballers get a chance to forward their careers in Europe (partly because that same freedom of travel has made their own leagues irrelevant), but is the bigger picture worth it? The point you've put across is way too simplistic, in my view.

[pineapple stu]

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.

It is a silly argument.

Fortunately, it's not remotely the argument I put across.

[Martinho II]

To change the subject a bit we have signed from Shamrock Rovers Dean McMenamy on loan for the coming season. For all the shamrock rovers fans that are posters here is he any good as I have never heard of him before?

https://ltfc.ie/2022/01/dean-mcmenamy-joins-on-loan/

[sbgawa]

With all the lockdown stuff I didn't get to many of the underage games but judging him off the few appearances for the first team he looks a decent player. There are lots of good players in the underage so just making it to the first team is a big vote for the kid. Hopefully he does well for you.

[mcgonigle]

Hopefully Kerr stays there, some dose these days

[John83]

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.

What a silly analogy. Perhaps a little close to what he said was: if you brag loudly about recycling and then make unnecessary short trips in humvee, you look like a buffoon.

[D24Saint]

Hopefully Kerr stays there, some dose these days

That's very islamabad of you.

[patsdad]

So for Pat's to be patting themselves on the back over a sustainable new kit, and then go flying people half way around the world to scout some Pakistani teenagers for the privilege of joining Pat's U19 team, is clearly worth calling out. Are you telling me that that's a level of football that simply isn't available in Pakistan? The issues of underage transfers abroad have dogged Irish football for decades - both in terms of the players themselves and the league - and I'd say there's a strong argument that flying teenagers half way around the world to join the Pat's 19s really is the sort of transport that we should be looking to prevent.

The issue of Asian medical students is tangential - primarily because they at least are on a solid professional path, whereas teenage footballers aren't, and really the idea of comparing some speculative scouting trips to Pakistan with medical student exchanges is daft to start off with - but the overall impact of large-scale emigration still isn't as clear-cut as you make out, partly because of the brain drain impact on the countries these people are leaving, which nobody seems to care about. Brain drain afflicted Ireland for decades, of course, so we should know about it; it makes it really hard for a developing country to grow its economy. So the gap between the rich and the poor economies in the world will continue to grow, the movement of people will continue to increase, and airline emissions continue to rise as more and more people take long-haul flights that they simply wouldn't have taken 10/20 years ago. Is that a good thing? It's why I said the bigger picture trumps people's individual "rights". (If you want to limit to just studying, then the lesson of the past two years is that increasingly remote study is a very real option if Asian colleges aren't good enough)

You can compare it to club football in a way - increased freedom of travel since 92 in particular has led to far less competitiveness and far more concentrated wealth across European football, to the extent now that even the Champions League seems to be broken and utterly predictable. Yes, some professional Asian footballers get a chance to forward their careers in Europe (partly because that same freedom of travel has made their own leagues irrelevant), but is the bigger picture worth it? The point you've put across is way too simplistic, in my view.

I appreciate you probably didn’t watch the press conference or read the detailed press release. This is a project originated by the Pakistani Government as part of a strategy to raise the standard of their game. The number of people who will be involved is small - 4 coaches now, and about 20 Pakistani players over 3 years. St Pats were approached because these kids would have a better chance of doing well by starting in an Irish club rather than an English one and the standard of our academy is known to be very high. It’s a honour for St Pats to be asked to do this, it will help us build links with the Pakistani community here (most of whom live in our catchment) and if we end up finding a player who can go on to have a good career, all the better. It’s basically a good news story and to try and turn it into a story about a tiny number of flights is, frankly, petty in the extreme.

I have to say I’m very surprised because over the years I’ve found you to be one of the most sensible and balanced posters on this forum. But I really feel you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here.