Republic of Ireland V Luxembourg - Saturday, 27th March 2021 - World Cup Qualifier

[seanfhear]

Well soon enough we won't have to worry about losing to lower ranked teams.

There’s always an Up-Side ! !

[Stuttgart88]

We have to face reality whilst we say football is the most played game in Ireland are many of the more talented youngsters particularly outside of Dublin still picking GAA first and Rugby is also a lot more popular regionally than it used be.
Too much competition in this country for talented youngsters who are good at 3 or 4 sports .

I think your argument is intuitively true. I'm not saying I disagree but I do often wonder how many genuinely class players we lose out to other sports though. My sense is that those with a real gift for football (rather than those who are better than most but never likely to excel at elite level) do tend to specialise at football. I read a story about Tony Grealish once, how he'd watch his dad play GAA while dribbling football behind the goal. Tony played GAA too and was good at it but excelled at the football. Do we really lose many exceptional footballers to other sports? Does it matter in the overall scheme of things if kids play other sports and move away from football? I don't know but my instinctive answer is to think we don't lose many potential elites to other games.

Did anyone see the Twitter pic posted last week of a young Gavin Bazunu shaking hands with a kid called Jack Lundy, then of Leicester Celtic? Each was about 9 or 10 at the time. David McWilliams of the Irish Times asked who the other kid (Lundy was). His dad replied saying it was his lad, and had come from a 100% football family but went to school at St. Mary's Rathmines where he because the rugby team out-half and someone added that he also went on to captain Dublin minors. But football broke the dad's heart. The GAA club was a constant, a well funded well supported club that was there down the years and will be there for years to come. The school allowed for continuous development, 6 years of being in the same team and regular competition against other schools. The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.

I suppose it's a numbers thing. Football clearly loses players to other games as it clearly doesn't help itself and the more players you lose the % chance of missing a very good player increases. But playing other games at a young age is generally seen as a good thing too (Ruud Dokter disagrees though). And while Rob Kearney could have been a super GAA player for example, could he have been an international standard footballer? Could Sexton, Carbery or O'Gara have been turned into footballers of the standard needed if they'd specialised at football early? I'd say it's more likely Andy Reid could have been another Tony Ward rather than Ronan O'Gara being another Andy Reid. Ward was a very good footballer btw. My own experience from playing in a big rugby school is that the better footballers on the first XV rugby team were genuinely really good rugby players (Leinster schools quality) but none could hold a candle to a kid called James Crowley at football. James was on the books at Bohs but never got near the first team. Shels legend Eric Barber's son Malcolm was in my year. He was just miles better than the best all-rounders in the school at football. I have no idea what level he went on to play at but probably no higher than LSL.

[backstothewall]

I'm not surprised by that stat tbh. Over the years we've had our ups and downs, but we generally don't lose at home. Lansdoowne Rd is a hard old nut to crack for visiting teams.

I do think the lack of fans is contributing to our fall from grace. The atmosphere can be lacking when it comes to teams where there's a gulf in class, but when opposition of a similar level to ourselves come to town it's usually very good.

[tetsujin1979]

I mentioned a few things after the Serbia game, and after the 2 or 3rd game, that both cunningham and sadlier pointed out last night. I can't be bothered
going through them to be honest. One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is our midfield isnt good enough for 3 at the back, and our defending is
generally too sloppy in moments throughout the game to actually play 3. It all seems pointless and futile at this point.

You should bother Paul. You really should.

Paul, you have until 8:30 this evening to provide the requested points.

[jbyrne]

The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.

part of the problem is a pitches thing. most football clubs play on local authority pitches which inevitably end up closed for weeks on end from november to february due to weather. I experienced this myself constantly when playing. rugby at youth level is largely schools based with no such pitch problem. Id say an awful lot of GAA clubs own their own pitches too. Local authorities need to start building asto pitches so that kids (playing all codes) can continue to play uninterrupted through the whole season

[Stuttgart88]

Facilities in Ireland are a joke. Can I ask any of you living in Ireland how far is it to your nearest proper running track?

How much does an astro pitch even cost? And an urban white water rafting park was seriously considered for EUR 25 million.

[jbyrne]

Facilities in Ireland are a joke. Can I ask any of you living in Ireland how far is it to your nearest proper running track?

How much does an astro pitch even cost? And an urban white water rafting park was seriously considered for EUR 25 million.

approx €1.5m to construct a GAA astro so I suppose maybe €1.2m or so.
there are a few proper running tracks in the process of being built in Dublin (blanchardstown (i think), UCD and Dundrum that I am aware of) but we are a long way behind a lot of countries.
for some bizzare reason every new school in ireland seems to get massive basketball facilities...... probably because the hard surfaces double up as playgrounds that facilitate students coming back into class not covered in mud!

if they spent 5% of the annual health budget on extra sports facility funding every year i bet they would start saving 10% of the health budget in say 10 years time

[sbgawa]

If you have the land a top notch Astro (like the oriel or Roadstone) is around 400k for a full size pitch.
So Dublin CC could have done approximately 60 astros on Council land for the same price as the white water white elephant.....
Public record the Dublin County Manager is a member of Kayaking IReland.....so not that surprising..
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-38763521.html

[Stuttgart88]

Yet another example of just how badly Irish football does politics.

and jb, not only would health benefits accrue you'd also probably have crime reduction benefits too.

[jbyrne]

If you have the land a top notch Astro (like the oriel or Roadstone) is around 400k for a full size pitch.
So Dublin CC could have done approximately 60 astros on Council land for the same price as the white water white elephant.....
Public record the Dublin County Manager is a member of Kayaking IReland.....so not that surprising..
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-38763521.html

that €400,000 is just the carpet. it wont cover the cost of sub-base, fencing, floodlights, sub-pitch drainage etc

[D24Saint]

Facilities in Ireland are a joke. Can I ask any of you living in Ireland how far is it to your nearest proper running track?

How much does an astro pitch even cost? And an urban white water rafting park was seriously considered for EUR 25 million.

I agree , just look at the absolute state of our national athletics stadium.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Stadium

[Bielsa´s irish]

Lets see how it develops

[elatedscum]

I think your argument is intuitively true. I'm not saying I disagree but I do often wonder how many genuinely class players we lose out to other sports though. My sense is that those with a real gift for football (rather than those who are better than most but never likely to excel at elite level) do tend to specialise at football. I read a story about Tony Grealish once, how he'd watch his dad play GAA while dribbling football behind the goal. Tony played GAA too and was good at it but excelled at the football. Do we really lose many exceptional footballers to other sports? Does it matter in the overall scheme of things if kids play other sports and move away from football? I don't know but my instinctive answer is to think we don't lose many potential elites to other games.

Did anyone see the Twitter pic posted last week of a young Gavin Bazunu shaking hands with a kid called Jack Lundy, then of Leicester Celtic? Each was about 9 or 10 at the time. David McWilliams of the Irish Times asked who the other kid (Lundy was). His dad replied saying it was his lad, and had come from a 100% football family but went to school at St. Mary's Rathmines where he because the rugby team out-half and someone added that he also went on to captain Dublin minors. But football broke the dad's heart. The GAA club was a constant, a well funded well supported club that was there down the years and will be there for years to come. The school allowed for continuous development, 6 years of being in the same team and regular competition against other schools. The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.

I suppose it's a numbers thing. Football clearly loses players to other games as it clearly doesn't help itself and the more players you lose the % chance of missing a very good player increases. But playing other games at a young age is generally seen as a good thing too (Ruud Dokter disagrees though). And while Rob Kearney could have been a super GAA player for example, could he have been an international standard footballer? Could Sexton, Carbery or O'Gara have been turned into footballers of the standard needed if they'd specialised at football early? I'd say it's more likely Andy Reid could have been another Tony Ward rather than Ronan O'Gara being another Andy Reid. Ward was a very good footballer btw. My own experience from playing in a big rugby school is that the better footballers on the first XV rugby team were genuinely really good rugby players (Leinster schools quality) but none could hold a candle to a kid called James Crowley at football. James was on the books at Bohs but never got near the first team. Shels legend Eric Barber's son Malcolm was in my year. He was just miles better than the best all-rounders in the school at football. I have no idea what level he went on to play at but probably no higher than LSL.

anecdotal evidence - but in my primary school, there were two truly exceptional footballers in my class (of i'd guess about 14 boys). the second best has had a career of 400+ professional appearances so far between ireland and the uk. the best lad at age 12 (like the kid above, was also at leicester celtic at that age), he went to a rugby secondary school and he bulked up there, gained a lot of weight to be the best rugby player he could be. he continued playing football through his teens but focussed more on rugby. he left school still being a very good footballer, but nowhere near what he could have been had he gone down a different path.

i remember when i was about 20, playing with a lad who had gone to the rugby school with Player A and had been the third keeper for the LOI side that player B was playing for the previous season. His take on it was that while Player A had the better football brain, player B was significantly the better athlete. While Player B was able to play several different sports at a high level with ease through his teens, Player A really needed to focus on playing football, stay light and trim and train regularly.

i think you can probably make assessments on a macro level, but there really is a whole spectrum of routes that work or don't work depending on the player.

FWIW Johnny Sexton was in the same primary school, but was about 5 years ahead, so can't remember at all if he was any good at football (he also went to Mary's).

interestingly, i also played with a lad who was in Andy Reid's year in Synge Street. He said Andy didn't make the school team for his year in football until 2nd or 3rd year. Bit weird considering his father's history in the game but probably re-enforces the idea of bad coaches not recognising good players...

[Stuttgart88]

That's mad about Andy Reid. Funnily enough Andrey Arshavin's kid was in my son's class in primary school and was rubbish apparently!

[mark12345]

I think your argument is intuitively true. I'm not saying I disagree but I do often wonder how many genuinely class players we lose out to other sports though. My sense is that those with a real gift for football (rather than those who are better than most but never likely to excel at elite level) do tend to specialise at football. I read a story about Tony Grealish once, how he'd watch his dad play GAA while dribbling football behind the goal. Tony played GAA too and was good at it but excelled at the football. Do we really lose many exceptional footballers to other sports? Does it matter in the overall scheme of things if kids play other sports and move away from football? I don't know but my instinctive answer is to think we don't lose many potential elites to other games.

Did anyone see the Twitter pic posted last week of a young Gavin Bazunu shaking hands with a kid called Jack Lundy, then of Leicester Celtic? Each was about 9 or 10 at the time. David McWilliams of the Irish Times asked who the other kid (Lundy was). His dad replied saying it was his lad, and had come from a 100% football family but went to school at St. Mary's Rathmines where he because the rugby team out-half and someone added that he also went on to captain Dublin minors. But football broke the dad's heart. The GAA club was a constant, a well funded well supported club that was there down the years and will be there for years to come. The school allowed for continuous development, 6 years of being in the same team and regular competition against other schools. The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.

I suppose it's a numbers thing. Football clearly loses players to other games as it clearly doesn't help itself and the more players you lose the % chance of missing a very good player increases. But playing other games at a young age is generally seen as a good thing too (Ruud Dokter disagrees though). And while Rob Kearney could have been a super GAA player for example, could he have been an international standard footballer? Could Sexton, Carbery or O'Gara have been turned into footballers of the standard needed if they'd specialised at football early? I'd say it's more likely Andy Reid could have been another Tony Ward rather than Ronan O'Gara being another Andy Reid. Ward was a very good footballer btw. My own experience from playing in a big rugby school is that the better footballers on the first XV rugby team were genuinely really good rugby players (Leinster schools quality) but none could hold a candle to a kid called James Crowley at football. James was on the books at Bohs but never got near the first team. Shels legend Eric Barber's son Malcolm was in my year. He was just miles better than the best all-rounders in the school at football. I have no idea what level he went on to play at but probably no higher than LSL.

Small small world it is. I played with Malcolm Barber for 10 or 12 years in Boston, for a team called Bohemians. Superb player - a real Roy Keane of amateur football in Massachusetts. Quite a successful team were the Boston Bohs - all Irish, made up of players from amateur leagues at home - won Massachusetts state title 5 times. Got to be honest - having played reserve football in LOI at home, I learned more in six months playing in Boston than a lifetime of playing at home. When you come up against Italian, Portuguese, Brazilians etc, you learn a lot from them. And about Tony Ward - I saw him play for an Ireland select team against Southampton at Tolka Park. What a football player. He was excellent that night and was a real handful for the Saints. Kevin Keegan proclaimed after the game that Tony could have been a professional soccer player - and from what I saw he was right.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'm not surprised by that stat tbh. Over the years we've had our ups and downs, but we generally don't lose at home. Lansdoowne Rd is a hard old nut to crack for visiting teams.

I do think the lack of fans is contributing to our fall from grace. The atmosphere can be lacking when it comes to teams where there's a gulf in class, but when opposition of a similar level to ourselves come to town it's usually very good.

Another thing that nobody of these streetwise irish football fans mentioned or talked I think is that we dont "win" yellow cards, I dont want to win the fair play award, I just wanna qualify to the WC.

We should be smart enough and get some nasty business on the football pitch, I always remembered the Roy of Ireland vs Overmars, set the tone of the game.

Only Molumby showed that bite, we need more bite. Football and agressiveness, that Rodrigues the other day, imagine him playing against us or Uruguay or even brazil, we have class but we are better at closing down opposition and we are ready for a challenge and some streetwise methods and picardy.

Get some yellows. Dont be naive mr.Kennyn

[backstothewall]

Another thing that nobody of these streetwise irish football fans mentioned or talked I think is that we dont "win" yellow cards, I dont want to win the fair play award, I just wanna qualify to the WC.

We should be smart enough and get some nasty business on the football pitch, I always remembered the Roy of Ireland vs Overmars, set the tone of the game.

Only Molumby showed that bite, we need more bite. Football and agressiveness, that Rodrigues the other day, imagine him playing against us or Uruguay or even brazil, we have class but we are better at closing down opposition and we are ready for a challenge and some streetwise methods and picardy.

Get some yellows. Dont be naive mr.Kennyn

I'd agree with this actually. We are too nice.

[Stuttgart88]

Small small world it is. I played with Malcolm Barber for 10 or 12 years in Boston, for a team called Bohemians. Superb player - a real Roy Keane of amateur football in Massachusetts. Quite a successful team were the Boston Bohs - all Irish, made up of players from amateur leagues at home - won Massachusetts state title 5 times. Got to be honest - having played reserve football in LOI at home, I learned more in six months playing in Boston than a lifetime of playing at home. When you come up against Italian, Portuguese, Brazilians etc, you learn a lot from them. And about Tony Ward - I saw him play for an Ireland select team against Southampton at Tolka Park. What a football player. He was excellent that night and was a real handful for the Saints. Kevin Keegan proclaimed after the game that Tony could have been a professional soccer player - and from what I saw he was right.

Wow, I always wondered what had happened to Malcolm! I presume you've lost touch? If not I'll PM you so I can send my regards via you.

[Kingdom]

Had to come back to this before today's game.
Passinginterest summed up everything I could and would say so much better in the Qatar thread. Plenty of soul-searching the last few days. To sack Kenny now, would be a waste of time, waste of a year, and counter-productive.

[tetsujin1979]

Something I didn't realise until last night. We had three shots on target in the game against Luxembourg, but I didn't realise two of them came in the first half.
https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/sta...08698397286400
https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/sta...25372890578951
In 45 minutes of football, we had one shot on target against Luxembourg.