What way? That's exactly what he's done directly and indirectly but also had an almost first team. All inputs have happened but only one outcome from all those varying inputs.Originally Posted by pineapple stu
https://www.the42.ie/roy-keane-irela...65518-Nov2020/
Spot on as usual, the crazy the more common sense.
Someday he is gonna be manager of the Republic national team no doubt about it.
What way? That's exactly what he's done directly and indirectly but also had an almost first team. All inputs have happened but only one outcome from all those varying inputs.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
What have you seen to suggest this about bazunu?
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
The only times I seen Bazunu was a couple of games for Rovers and I thought he was special considering he was 16.
You thought he was special cos he's 16? Making a snr debut? Or he was actually a special keeper. We've covered previously about circumstance and his chance coming.
Keepers more than anything need consistency and it's very difficult to make that out till you see them in a few games consecutively.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Fwiw I know I've already said this but I saw him twice and thought he did very well. But it's all relative really.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
The fact that he was 16 might have influenced me for sure. I dont remember what it was specifically but I think there was a couple of saves where I thought wow. To be fair Man City must have seen something that impressed them too
Mick had less pressure to start (lots of friendlies) and the US Cup in particular saw a lot of new players, and some older players who were fringe but maybe had something to offer still. Given, Daish, O'Neill, Farrelly, Savage, O'Brien, Harte, Moore, Breen, Fleming, Connolly, Cunningham - all played before Mick's first competitive game. Some became regulars, others faded away. But there was time to lose a lot of games in working all that out. Kenny's under pressure already and hasn't blooded as many players yet (and we do need to bring new players through)
Just to put that in context btw - Mick's record in his first seven games was P7 W0 D2 L5 F6 A14.
Kenny's first seven games is P7 W0 D3 L4 F1 A6
OK, Mick had some tough games in that (Holland, Portugal and the Czechs all preparing for the Euros for example), but he had better players too. If we had a forward - just one - we would have picked up a win by now (against Slovakia, most probably). Kenny can't really do anything about that. He also can't do a huge amount about losing players to covid at short notice.
Yet I feel he's under a lot more pressure than Mick was at the same stage, probably in part because Mick's games were all friendlies.
If Mick had social media around back then he probably would have been under more pressure too. Kenny has had a lot to deal with, even not having home fans to give the players a lift has hurt him I think.
Well that's probably true alright, yeah.
No home fans is another good point. I get the feeling that a crowd would inject a bit of tempo into our game, and we could be dangerous then (up to a point). We've put some nice moves together in the last few games (and then find we have no striker worth talking about). If we could do that more often, the law of averages says we must force a save sooner or later!
Lionel, thanks man, I needed to read someone writing that, because quite honestly I've read some absolute horse manure on here, on social media and on WhatsApp over the last 24 hours, and maybe it's the current climate, maybe it's Irish fans, but there is waffle (which I'm prone to myself) and conjecture, and then there's your post which is perfect.
I couldnt watch last night's game, but saw the two line-ups and about 10 mins altogether. I'm reading people writing that the system isn't working, the new approach isn't working, all because we've not scored in a few games, or won in a few games. so bloody what. It's so obvious the amount of clowns who don't have any concept of what it is to support a club, because now more than ever, these things don't change overnight. Anyone calling for Kenny's head is a ****tard. It's that simple. This isn't a 1 year project, 2 year project. It's a generational project - and it must be!
It's almost as if we collectively haven't properly realised just how bad Irish football completely has got. It's done, we've allowed it become this way. the rap sheet is so long: By neglecting our league; neglecting all the aspects of Irish football in order to serve the Senior team; by allowing our senior managers to be paid Millions (Millions!) every year in order to try and fluke a qualification, when at the same time countries of our scale do so on a pittance. Having no identity. All this garbage about Euro 2012, Euro 2016, it almost makes me sick.
The Euro 2012 finals was the culmination of 4 years of the nastiest ugliest football that was very rarely polished as decent. As a football fan, under Trapatoni there was no saving grace, the football was horrific, acceptable at the start to try and solidify and then develop, except there was no developing - and it became like that because we as patrons of football allowed it. I appreciate that if you're an event junkie, the trap era was great. The legendary stories with JD, the train trips, Gydna & Sopot whatever etc.
And Euro 16. The irony is that the performances there was for the most part when we tried to play football, pretty decent. It was only when we didn't trust ourselves (Belgium and France) and reverted to ONeill type (giving the ball back to the opposition) that it turned to ****. But qualification, man, that was one horrid ****show. I mean, I understand that we (me most of all) sometimes underestimate actual good teams, and overestimate actual weak teams, but that group, and those performaces, were absolutely disgusting. Say what you want about the 4 points against Germany, but we were horrific for 85 minutes of that game. We were worse in Dublin. and despite those 4 points we still only came third, because of the type of football we played is pure flip-of-a-coin stuff. Poland home, Georgia away, Scotland in Hampden, Scotland in Lansdowne.
Think of the performances generally in the following WC campaign. Serbia away, Serbia home, Austria home, Wales home, both Georgia games "**** me Tommy, i think I'm gonnae be sick". We got exactly what we deserved from the play-off. **** all, because there's no game plan. No idea of what to do with the football.
I'm struggling to contain some semblence of rationality here, but I suppose I can only equate the John Doe line from Seven where Pitt's character refers to "victims" and Spacey almost chokes on his own vomit when he hears them being described as such. The things that really get to me, it's championing the qualification of Euro 2012 and using the draw in Moscow as the catalyst. That was a shameful performance. We decamped onto our 18yd line, like we were Andorra, offering no offensive threat whatsoever. It was reminiscent of Liechtenstein against us in 95 where we lampooned our own failure.
Anyone who tries to justify playing the type of football we played under Martin O'Neill, and latterly under Mick McCarthy deserves a placement on Rockall in the winter. I never, ever want to see an Irish team go to Gibraltar and hoof the ball from tip off out of play for a throw-in. Because that's what will continue to happen.
To say that the "Kenny experiment" isn't working, and that other Irish manager's would have come away from the English match last night with a result is laughable. Actually, that's wrong, it's not laughable, it's dangerous. Under previous managers, with better players admittedly (and it's fair both to previous groups, but also the current group to acknowledge that) we played a rudimentary percentage football that was hit it long, chase down and hope for a break. Football has developed so much in 20 years, with the small percentages meanign so much, that our gameplan of giving the ball back to the opposition as much as possible deliberately, just won't work.
There are people on this site who are essentially advocating a return to Jack Charlton football. You could argue they're advocating to use the style of Gaelic football or rugby and use brute force as a way of getting results. They are forgetting a lot. The biggest of the lot is that we don't have the players now, that we had during Jack's complete tenure, including the end. They were players who disliked the system they played, but crucially when they got the ball back in the opposition half, they had the skill, guile etc to do something with it.
The only thing - singular - that is working, is the schoolboys and underage sides. The LoI is broken. The Mens team is broken. the Fai as an organisation broken.
There was a discussion in the Ireland forum possibly 18 months ago, and it essentially boiled down to the crap seniors maybe qualifying for a championship and the core group of 21s qualifying for their Euros. Everyone with possibly a couple of exceptions, took the handy choice. If the 21s qualify - they should do - then we absolutely should send the strongest team possible there. Idah, O'Shea, Molumby, Connolly and two keepers. They could do quite well, and then when it's over, bring them en-masse through to the senior squad.
Not a great example size-wise, but think back to what was probably our best campaign, the 92 campaign, where we absolutely demolished Turkey home and away. By the end of the following campaign they were beating top European teams, and it started a process that ended up with them coming third in the world by 2002.
We need to take some hits, some more hits, and then a few more. The North's most recent great period came about after 18 months of horror under Michael O'Neill. ignore last night - the performances (45 mins in Dublin vs Finns aside) haven't been that bad. But whoever sanctioned that game last night, needs their head examining. I understand the alternative was a game in Bosnia, but really, that would have been a more prudent choice. Last night was unwinnable, in theory and in practice, for the team, and for the management.
We can discuss players strengths and abilities until the cows come home. Cull the players who consistently don't make it happen on match-day. because it's happening consistently.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
No Paul, it's clowns comparing to Kerr who haven't a ****ing clue who will see him going the way of Kerr.
When Kenny was offered the job, he was being offered it by a different FAI, and a CEO who had a history of skullduggery. Kenny will never manage in the Premiership, his knowledge of the irish system would appear to be very deep, and he'd be aware of the potential of the lads coming through. It's a no-brainer that he would accept the job offer. regardless of what happened with the 21s, that offer may not have come again.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
No, Structure and organisation is what matters. Results give managers the capital to continue to enforce turgid depressing horrid football, that is alien to what the players allegedly play at club level, and absolutely alien to what kids coming through the underage structures are playing now. The only good performance under Mick was Georgia at home, and even that is in the context of how we played against Georgia in the very recent past, and the shank football we played earlier that week at the Rock.
Do you remember how we outfootballed Gibraltar? Georgia?its completely naive and deluded to think that we can out-football many of the teams at our level (rankings) and especially those ahead of us. teams like us, with their limited resources, have to bring something to their tactics that maybe better footballing teams lack.
To put the opposition under serious pressure means we have to be doing it as a team, which means the team can't really afford to drop off when the ball moves back or through a sector, because you create bigger gaps to exploit. At the moment, and I didn't see last night, one of our centre halves likes to drop off a lot. And it kills us. It kills us when it's added to a keeper who won't leave his box to kill the aforementioned gaps.I like the way we hold onto the ball at times at the moment but we just don't put the opposition under enough pressure to throw them off their own stride and we need to reintroduce that back into our game.
I've wondered for a while now are you a fantasist. That quote above is bull****. simple. We played an Italian team, already won the group, with little to play for. A team playing for it's life against a team wanting to get through a fixture unscathed, is not a good comparison. To add insult to injury, your description of the goal: what the hell was direct about it? We had two players carry the ball, a skill they were renowned for, and an exceptional cross into the box? What's direct about that? The irony is that Ireland teams under ONeill generally only played good football in the final 10 mins of games where they needed to salvage something.look at some of the tackles that went in against italy in lille...... it put italy under savage pressure from the start that they couldn't really cope with it. we also used the ball well at times in that game and the build up to bradys goal was quite direct but also involved very good use of the ball. that match is the blue print as to how we need to play...... a good mixture of our traditional getting stuck in along with decent retention and use of the ball
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Say what you want Kingdom but we performed perfectly as a team of our disposition should do in order to get those results against a top team like Germany.
That and the first half v France was O'Neill at his best, works of art.. The rest was mostly shiite though. We now cannot play the same game v England as we did v Slovakia or similar and realistically hope to get a result.
Pick your team, pick your formation, pick your tactics. Lay the cards out here. Cause quite frankly, your spoofology I can take no more. We don't have a Niall Quinn, heck, we don't have a Johnny Walters. We don't even have a Tommy Coyne. Like, just to be clear about some things, what you are advocating we play, is what essentially retired Kevin Doyle from football prematurely - caveman football. If the FAI had spent the money they spent on underage football earlier, perhaps even on developing league of ireland and local facilities, instead of spending it on **** managers whose time has past them, then we'd be much further along the road than we are.
Rubbish, utter and complete rubbish."Its a bit worrying really, because you know whatever other manager we had whatever system was played we'd have come out of Wembley with a draw
But for all the talk of having possession and and passing football, we have looked more than second rate against England. And defensively very fragile. I actually thought we'd improved slightly defensively but I just think now that was more the opposition than anything we were particularly doing. We are opened up very easily, when we dont have the ball and the counter is very dangerous for us, because defensively we cant go man to man. And you know now when we go behind its very unlikely we will score - perhaps a late consolation but nothing more. Very worrying indeed. Idah definitely isnt the future either.I want you to show me the examples of where we contained big teams before. Assuming you mean contain as in nullifying? Or do you mean contain, as in not-losing, because they are very different understandings.We've always been well off the top, but rarely have we shown it so clearly, because we've made up in other ways. We need to have a system where we can contain the big teams, like before, like other managers before Kenny did.
We threw away Euro 96, Wc2010, Wc 2014, WC 2018, Euro 2020, because we were too proud, or perhaps too stupid to just think we could continually give the ball to the opposition and not throw away competitions for an actual pipe dream.Don't be too proud or too stupid to just think we have to play passing, possession football, or we'll be throwing away more competitions just for a potential pipe dream."
What you are advocating, in the era of statistics, is playing football on a coin-toss. It's not Gaelic, it's not rugby. We're not going to grind teams down. Manc Wolf to be fair to him, gave the example of Leicester winning the PL. how many players did they use generally? 15, 16 maybe? An international side like Ireland doesn't have control of such a control such as player availability.
He's getting an easier time because he deserves it - because most competent managers deserve it in the current situation. He's had a lot of games now. Jesus christ man, seriously, it's not the All-Ireland where they are training with players day in day out and only playing one game a month. And lets not kid ourselves either, he's in a no-win situation. That squad he inherited was goosed from day one, because most players have shown over a long-enough time that they aren't capable.Kenny is rightly getting an easier time than other managers would, the disinterest in sport in general with more pressing, major issues in peoples lives and the world , have all worked in his favour, corona has effected all teams but definitely he has been more unlucky than most with injuries and corona related pull outs. But he's had a lot of games now, and I dont see things improving greatly in the next 2 either. We are well off the ability of an England type team, but we're even further off battling to draws or even keeping the scoreline respectable. We still look nothing like scoring either.
Robbie, Jeff, Arter, McCarthy, Hourihane. Not one of them have shown consistency in availability, ability, performance or leadership (apply accordingly) in the most crucial part of the pitch. If Kenny came in and jettisoned any combination of them, he'd be lynched for doing so. He knows it, and we all know it. Especially when there was a EURO 2020 place stll to play for (by circumstance rather than deserving).
But make no mistake about it, he's blessed that a) there are no fans in the grounds, and b) that the FAI is broken in finacnes, and in governship.
How dare you? Take the boat you goofball. It's counts like you who love the craic, and the **** up and contribute sweet **** all to actual Irish football that are the selfish and unpatriotic ones. like the ***** at the front of the class who wants the gold star, and throws a tantrum when Ms Doherty asks dip**** dave for the answer - who'll be there front and centre telling all and sundry about the Paraguayan barista in Chisnau, grinning at a self-made quip like some gurning extra from Fr. Ted. You''re getting all jittery because you sense that the glory days are in the distant past, and you want the comfort blanket of what made that happen - hoofball, without sensing that circumstance, luck, call it what you want, was as much a part of it all, and unfortunately we don't have control over that.Interesting to see hear that most people are now seeing that we do need to change and adapt except against the minnows/smaller teams - its encouraging. Those who think that they are better fans for wanting some nice pleasing brand of football and willing to throw away campaigns for this dream are actually the selfish and less patriotic ones.
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Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
In the alternate universe of 2013, as was pointed out elsewhere, that 1-0 is a 1-6, and the 1-1 is a 0-3. You and OShea are the exact type of buachaills that if he did revert to something different, and lost as badly, who'd be criticising for changing tack. As has been pointed out "in the game that mattered" vs Slovakia, we played well, and for me were the significantly better team for 60 mins of the game.
I can picture the conversation now:
SK: "right lads, this passing nonsense that we've been playing against those clowns from Finland, Wales and Slovakia, I want you to forget all that. We're playing England this week, and because they're top tier, and must be better than us, well **** me, we can't be trying to hold onto the ball. actually lads, do you know what, lets take our chances at hitting it long to Shane, and see how he gets on against big Harry Maguire. He looks dodgy in the air for a guy who's 7 inches taller than Shane."
SC "Eh gaffer, aren't finland, Wales and Slovakia the same seeds as us? So does that make us clowns too? ANd Gaffer what about all the work we've done up to now. Maybe we could play down the side of Alexander-Arnold and Saka, they look a bit slow and susceptible to a ball in behind them, and let's see what happens?"
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
What the hell are you talking about?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I endorse this. Add it to the below. Paul, you have two days to complete the task.
And to prove how serious I am, now you have one day.Still waiting on this "handful". To make it fair, a handful is defined as a minimum of five.Could you? Then you probably should.
I expect you to do better than the minimum
I've seen him for Rovers and in underage games for Ireland and Man City. Sometimes, a player looks special and you know that they will be top class. He is an exceptional talent. Great attitude as well. He will make mistakes but take it on his chin and learn from it.
I know Klopp rates Kelleher but I see little in his game to make me think that he will ever be a premiership or international class keeper. Hope I'm wrong.
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