Gavin Bazunu G Southampton b.2002

**Jolly Red Giant** · 04/12/2023, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Forde's kick outs and distribution were simply not good enough for a pro footballer
Randolph was extremely reliable. I never had any fears or concerns when he was in nets
We cant honestly say that about Gavin and also Kelleher at the moment.

I would agree re the Lux save away, that was and astounding save

Randolph was solid during most of his time with Ireland - but he was 29 before he became first choice keeper for Ireland - in his prime as a keeper. Forde was picked ahead of him over the previous four years.

People need to remember that Bazunu is only 21 years old - that is an infant in terms of a modern goalkeeper - and yet he has already played over 120 club games and 21 internationals. Alisson was 25 before he established himself at Roma, Ederson 23 at Benfica, Oblak 23, Martinez was 28 before he got a chance with Villa. Now I am not saying Bazunu will be on that level (although he has the potential) - but the kid has to be given time to grow and learn.

**LurcherLover** · 04/12/2023, 10:59 AM

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.

**pineapple stu** · 04/12/2023, 11:19 AM

I think we can sum up the foot.ie basis for evaluating Irish keepers as -

Stats - meaningless
L'Equipe - b0llocks
Ballon d'Or - rigged or something
JRG's views with no real back-up - unarguable

Seems entirely rational to me.

**Jolly Red Giant** · 04/12/2023, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think we can sum up the foot.ie basis for evaluating Irish keepers as -

Stats - meaningless
L'Equipe - b0llocks
Ballon d'Or - rigged or something
JRG's views with no real back-up - unarguable

Seems entirely rational to me.

So the response is some off the cuff remarks that bear little semblance to what is actually said - and then dismiss the evidence provided.

stu - you are entitled to your opinion - and you are entitled to use metrics as the basis for what you believe. I am entitled to point out that stats are limited in what they can tell us about football and there are very many things that you cannot measure that directly impact on performance - that using your own eyes to review things can be a far better indicator of performance that handing everything over to algorithms.

What is irrational is assuming that your method is correct. I base my views on evidence - and I don't dismiss the evidence produced by statistics - but I do use more than one source before forming my opinion. Why - because using only one source leads to bias. And I generally don't make statements without producing the evidence (which unfortunately leads me to posting stuff that is far too long).

**Jolly Red Giant** · 04/12/2023, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by LurcherLover

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.

First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).

**Stuttgart88** · 04/12/2023, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by LurcherLover

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.

Did you watch Celtic when Bonner was playing?! He definitely upped his game playing for Ireland.

**Stuttgart88** · 04/12/2023, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

I never had any fears or concerns when he was in nets
We cant honestly say that about Gavin and also Kelleher at the moment.

I don't go into any Ireland game worrying about goalkeeper tbh. The only worry is the reaction here if one of them makes a mistake, specially Bazunu as I actually rate him and think others have a glass-half-empty view (at best)! I worry about our midfield 10 times more than I worry about goalkeeper regardless of which one plays. All campaign we've been waiting for that costly Bazunu mistake which never came.

I've frequently said players and especially goalkeepers can be more at home for their international team than their club. Bonner was definitely a stronger keeper for us than he was for Celtic (I disagree with JRG that Celtic were Championship standard at that time btw).

I think the post about L'Equipe and Ballon D'Or was a bit juvenile tbh.

Stats are what they are.

The most overlooked factor in all of this is good objective opinion which seems to be lacking all round here.

I actually forgot about Westwood. He had something special about him. Bazunu and Kelleher have yet to come close to his best club form yet.

**LurcherLover** · 04/12/2023, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).

OK, "Bazunu and Kelleher are probably better than any goalkeeper who has played for Ireland in the last 100 years with the exception of Shay Given". Sorry about that...

Honestly, I'm honestly not trying to be rude or anything along them lines, but you can write whatever you want or say another poster said that Bonner was average at club level but there's no debate here for me with Bazunu and certainly not Kelleher. The lad has 10 caps, or whatever, against weak teams in friendlies/NL, very little club football at senior level and your putting him ahead of/saying he's probably better than every keeper in the last 100 years with the exception of Given? Come off it now.

**SkStu** · 04/12/2023, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).

The game has changed a lot in even just the last 5 years for what constitutes a good keeper. The other difficulty is that the players over the last 100 years have full careers on which to be judged while the sample size is still limited for Bazunu and Kelleher, as well as the fact that they have so much potential and the potential to be great. So maybe the question is who do they have left to catch up to in terms of career performances and achievements? I think the answer is different for both of them. Bazunu, in my opinion, still has to catch up to Given and Randolph too. There's arguments around the edges for others but those are two that Bazunu needs to surpass. The list is quite a bit longer for Kelleher and he has less time to do it.

I also don't know if you are asking about club career, international career or both - because you dismissed Randolph due to not becoming a regular for Ireland until later in his career. If you are including international careers, then it is not fair to dismiss Bonner so casually. He was great for us - and an ever present - he gave us England 88 and Romania 90 - and won things in Scotland when it was considered a lot higher as an achievement.

**LurcherLover** · 04/12/2023, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Did you watch Celtic when Bonner was playing?! He definitely upped his game playing for Ireland.

Yes. Whether your opinion of him was that he was bang average in a championship side club, as JRG pointed out, or he just upped his game at international level is irrelevant when making a comparison to Kelleher/Bazunu. Bazunu looks average at a championship club and seems to up his game for International and we don't even know what standard Kelleher is, as the lad has hardly played snr football at club level. Will they turn out to be better than every keeper, bar Given, over the past 100 years? Maybe. But, making that comparison now at the current point in their careers is bonkers.

**Jolly Red Giant** · 10/12/2023, 12:37 PM

While he made a couple of good saves in the game - Bazunu was at fault for the Watford equaliser. If Southampton miss out on promotion by 2 pts they will look back on this game as one that got away.

**tetsujin1979** · 10/12/2023, 1:18 PM

They've drawn five games this season, why single this one out?
If they finish second by a point, will they single it out as the reason they got promoted?

**Stuttgart88** · 10/12/2023, 2:00 PM

Ah come on Tets. The equaliser came on 96 or 97 mins. Twitter saying he was MOTM but then let in a bad one. The life of a goalie…

In truth, Southampton have also scored some very late winners this season.

**Diggs246** · 10/12/2023, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Ah come on Tets. The equaliser came on 96 or 97 mins. Twitter saying he was MOTM but then let in a bad one. The life of a goalie…

In truth, Southampton have also scored some very late winners this season.

The match isnt over until the final whistle blows. If make a balls of a goal, you make a balls of a goal

**Stuttgart88** · 10/12/2023, 5:11 PM

I think you missed my point entirely.

**Jolly Red Giant** · 10/12/2023, 5:45 PM

Being a goalie is the most unenviable job on a football pitch - you can play great for the entire game and still cost your team the match with one mistake. Often the mistake happens early in the game and the team can recover - 6 mins into injury time and there is not much you can do. Those are the saves you really have to make.

Now - the upside is that Bazunu has the character to bounce back.