Slovakia were poor, but Bosnia looked very decent.
They are very, very limited though, wouldn't you agree? But it's amazing what a new manager can do just by getting a team organised. It will be interesting to see how they get on in Cardiff tomorrow, might be a better gauge of how good or bad our result/performance was.Originally Posted by Razors left peg
So then... how does SK turn all of that into a team that can win in Slovakia in a month's time and get us to the playoff final? I think the answer is that he probably doesn't to be honest, but he needs to find a functioning team and game plan in the next four weeks to at least give us a chance.
In terms of setup he is, as expected, wedded to a 4-3-3 type formation so there is little chance of him changing that to a 3-5-2 or any other formation for the playoff game. I do think he needs to tweak the setup down the right hand side though, especially if Doherty is going to continue in the team. We have also left our centre forward looking very isolated in the last two games - we really need a second forward in there to offer some support in attack.
I would want us to look at something like this:
----------------Randolph---------------
-----------Duffy-----Egan-----Stevens
Doherty--------------------------------
----------Arter-----McCarthy----------
-----------------Brady------------------
--------Long---McGoldrick---Connolly
It looks a bit lopsided, but basically the idea is that you keep the 4-3-3 but in attack you give Doherty (or Coleman) the space to bomb up and down the right flank all game by not playing an out-and-out right wing forward, where O'Dowda has played the last two games. It's a bit of a problem position for us anyway, but I'm starting to think we don't actually need anyone there in any case, O'Dowda was more in the way at times tonight than anything else.
Instead you play someone like Long as a second forward to make sure your centre forward isn't as isolated as Idah has been for the last two games. Having the second forward also helps as McGoldrick will likely be up there and he likes to drift back and get involved in possession in midfield throughout the game.
In defence you need Stevens to stay back and tuck in alongside the centre backs to help cover the space when Doherty goes forward, Stevens was hopeless going forward tonight anyway so no big loss there. Also at least one of the midfielders needs to sit deep to protect against the counter attacks we have been picked off with the last two games. The players we pick, especially in midfield, could change depending on who starts the season well at club level, we have six or seven realistic central midfield options at the moment with nobody standing out unfortunately - the three I have gone for there are just examples to fill the positions.
Hopefully giving more space to allow us to attack from right back would also build a bit more energy into our play, at the moment we look like we are trying to force a setup that doesn't suit the players we have and they don't seem to be able to pass the ball quickly enough to create any openings. So I think we have to try something different against Slovakia to have any chance of causing what would, at this point, be a shock result.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Are we really good enough to play Three Forwards. I don’t think so. Your Midfield would want to have a few Frighteners ( to the Opposition ) to be playing Three Forwards !
Better Midfielders would have a field day against us with that system.
Yes, a recurring theme in Irish football is that we get outnumbered in the centre of the park by teams playing with three central midfielders.
SK doesn't get it either, it seems. A shame.
4-3-3 isn't the only way to play nice football.
I don't get it. What's your suggestion? Play four central midfielders?
4-2-3-1
No matter what the formation, players have to be clued in, but 4231 is blatantly obvious to try for a new manager for a team like ours. Our starting point is midfield and cover for the back 4. We won't win anything with 433, never mind playing debutants like Molumby in an important competitive game next month as one of three midfielders.
Taylor made hay in midfield yesterday, exploiting gaps, making runs. and eventually setting up the goal.
The future for this team is to beat Slovakia.
Is there really a great deal of difference between a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3?
The two wide men push up a little bit and the behind the striker midfielder drops back a little bit and that 4-2-3-1 is a 4-3-3 anyway.
Our Midfield is no way good enough for the luxury of there forwards. They would need to be three exceptional good midfielders for that. We don’t have midfielders of that quality.
A Variation of 4-2-2-1-1 with us using our good attacking Full Backs as we happen to have good attacking Full backs. But it seems that you need very well drilled teams to have attacking full backs ( wing backs and can it be done at International Football with the time available )
There was a bit of a reaction pre-match to our whole midfield being 'dropped', but realistically I think McCarthy & Hendrick were shoe-ins for Slovakia regardless of what happened last night, and probably safer still now. I feel Hourihane may be less sure of his place, Arter might just have done enough to get in instead.
It's a little concerning that SK is picking a team to suit his preferred system, rather than choosing a system to suit his players. Even if 4-3-3 does turn out to be the way to go, he'll need to be more flexible than he appears at the moment, whether that's a tweak within a match or an adjustment for different types of opposition.
He has said he's not married to any particular system though, so time will tell, very early days obviously.
I think we have some very decent midfielders, but yes, teams that have successfully pulled off 4-3-3 at the highest level would be the likes of Ajax last season, who had Frenkie de Jong in midfield, who is a step above our best midfielders. Or Barcelona in 2011, where Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets in midfield did the work of five players.
This isn't to say I think our players are bad. I think they are capable of playing very good football, and that potential showed for many parts of the Bulgaria match. In that way, I don't mind 4-3-3 being a long-term target for Irish youth and senior teams to strive for. Morten Olsen implemented it across all age levels of football in Denmark, and it really worked out well for them. But it might be a bit too soon for us. And, as I said, we can't afford to play a system where we have to drop one of Coleman or Doherty. World class Irish players don't grow on trees...
Didn’t Germany move Lahm to midfield successfully for a few years. Ok none of our full backs are Lahm ! It will be interesting to see how Coleman goes this year. If he returns to form it would seem stage that a relative small footballing country like Ireland cannot make good use of Coleman and Doherty.
Yeah I was saying on the Finland thread that they're just different nuances of the same thing but they require slightly different types of player, or at least slightly different roles are given to the same players.
Happens all the time. Dwight Yorke played midfield for Trinidad & Tobago. I myself would have played Damien Duff as a roaming attacking midfielder. If he was Croatian it's possible he would have been moulded like a Modric...
Could Coleman play as 1 of two screeners in front of the back four and these screeners could fill in for the attacking full backs. Surely Coleman would have enough of a defensive mindset to do that ? Ok who would be the other one ?
Ya i felt like watching them yesterday they were even better at it than against us. The georgian has them playing like Ireland under Trap. He even reminds me of him looking at the sideline. And just like Traps Ireland they have very little interest in getting up the pitch or trying to score.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I would say, at this stage, the future of this team is to beat Slovakia.
If we didnt win the next game then i think there would be forgiveness. But 2 losses in a row and effectively a get out of jail draw in the first 3 games, is not going to endear to the Irish footballing public, by that then the media. Players might themselves start to doubt the whole approach.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I asked this in another forum. Exactly what i was wondering too. Hes quick over a couple of yards, and hes pacey, tenacious, and not easily beaten off the ball, can receive in tight spaces and still not be dispossessed(switzerland exception), hes also a very good tackler generally.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
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