Caoimhín Kelleher GK Liverpool b.1998

**elatedscum** · 03/10/2023, 2:45 AM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I'll repeat what I said in earlier post. We don't know if Kelleher can be a number 1 keeper at any level because he's never played as a number 1 at any level. The guy is now in his mid 20s so can't even really be considered a young prospect any more. Have him go and play a season of football somewhere and learn to be a professional footballer rather than a part timer and then whether he should become Irelands number 1 becomes a relevant discussion.

Imagine for a second that Bazunu and Travers don’t exist and it was between Kelleher, O’Leary, Bonham, Randolph, McDermott, Maher and Talbot. Is Kelleher your Ireland number one in that scenario or does the facts in your post above still rule him out?

**SkStu** · 03/10/2023, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Imagine for a second that Bazunu and Travers don’t exist and it was between Kelleher, O’Leary, Bonham, Randolph, McDermott, Maher and Talbot. Is Kelleher your Ireland number one in that scenario or does the facts in your post above still rule him out?

In your imaginary world I would let the PSxG+/- per PSxG prevail. Just to throw Pineapple Stu a bone!

**Razors left peg** · 03/10/2023, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Imagine for a second that Bazunu and Travers don’t exist and it was between Kelleher, O’Leary, Bonham, Randolph, McDermott, Maher and Talbot. Is Kelleher your Ireland number one in that scenario or does the facts in your post above still rule him out?

I think O'Leary could have a decent claim to be ahead of Kelleher as it is.

I'm not trying to be hard headed about it but the fella is 25 years old next month and has less than 25 appearances in senior club football. At what point do people think he needs to play actual football in order to play international football? Should we accept a situation where he becomes Ireland #1 and ends up with more international caps than club games? I just think it's nonsense that they guy has never even played a season on loan somewhere and just because he's a splinter collector for a big club we should accept him being a serious contender for an Ireland spot. If he was back up to Martinez at Villa would the support for him be as strong, or is it because Liverpool are widely supported amongst Ireland fans.

Let's say he has 1 off night for Liverpool in a cup game, who's to say he doesn't go the way of Karius and struggle to ever get a decent move. It's not like clubs have a large body of work to scout him on and I just think at his age that's crazy

**ColourfulPeanut** · 03/10/2023, 8:21 AM

Has there ever been a top keeper who played less than 40 men's football matches at 25 and gone on to be a success? I would guess most famous #2 keepers had a stint playing on loan before getting comfy on the bench.

I'm trying to think of one but none come to mind. Steve Harper was one I thought of, who sat behind Given a large chunk of his career despite being highly rated. Even he had a year multiple loans including a year in Division 1 by the time he was 22.

**seanfhear** · 03/10/2023, 8:28 AM

If the Kelleher experiment works ~ It will be interesting to see if any other clubs do it with goal-keepers.

**Stuttgart88** · 03/10/2023, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut

Has there ever been a top keeper who played less than 40 men's football matches at 25 and gone on to be a success? I would guess most famous #2 keepers had a stint playing on loan before getting comfy on the bench.

I'm trying to think of one but none come to mind. Steve Harper was one I thought of, who sat behind Given a large chunk of his career despite being highly rated. Even he had a year multiple loans including a year in Division 1 by the time he was 22.

But, to counter this, haven't there always been international goalkeepers who have accumulated lots of caps and have always been solid while never being club number 1? I can't think of any right now but I think Northern Ireland has had some, and probably some of the Nordic teams. Wales?

**OMTY** · 03/10/2023, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

But, to counter this, haven't there always been international goalkeepers who have accumulated lots of caps and have always been solid while never being club number 1? I can't think of any right now but I think Northern Ireland has had some, and probably some of the Nordic teams. Wales?

Danny Ward was the one that came to my mind. Has had some seasons where he has played more international games than club games.

EDIT: Wayne Hennessey has had a few seasons recently with more international than club games also.

**tetsujin1979** · 03/10/2023, 10:07 AM

Shay Given played nine games in the 2015/16 season, four of them were for Ireland
https://www.soccerbase.com/players/p...&season_id=145

**weldoninhio** · 03/10/2023, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Shay Given played nine games in the 2015/16 season, four of them were for Ireland
https://www.soccerbase.com/players/p...&season_id=145

Shay Given had over 400 appearances behind him in the 2015/16 seasons. Hardly comparable.

**ifk101** · 03/10/2023, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by third policeman

My point is that Liverpool fans don't question Kelleher's ability in the way that he is criticised on this forum, or in the way that they consistently criticised Adrian as not being good enough.

When asked "Should Aaron Ramsdale leave Arsenal and be No.1 somewhere else?", Jamie Carragher, Liverpool fan, spat out he thinks Ramsdale will move sooner rather than later as "you never have two keepers at the same level in a club .... you do not get two top keepers at the same club". By the same logic, Carragher does not consider Kelleher to be a top keeper. So if Liverpool fans don't question Kelleher ability, it is because Allison is firmly first choice and "you do not get two top keepers at the same club".

Originally Posted by third policeman

.. but equally many fans would want their team to have the best players.

Yes.

**tetsujin1979** · 03/10/2023, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Shay Given had over 400 appearances behind him in the 2015/16 seasons. Hardly comparable.

I was comparing it to Wayne Hennessey's recent record of playing more international games in a season than club games, as mentioned by OMTY
e.g. 2019/20 where he played 10 games, and half of them were for Wales - https://www.soccerbase.com/players/p...&season_id=152
At that stage of his career, he had over 300 senior appearances

**mypost** · 03/10/2023, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

There are few, if indeed any alternative realities as entertaining as mypostian reality. Gavin Bazunus career represents the graveyard of multiple managers. Very good.

If this were parody it'd be hilarious but the fact that you're actually serious makes it so much funnier.

Don't go changing now, y'hear me ? You'd be missed.

I am serious. I don't know what exactly you find hilarious, but people say the best comedy is only funny when it's true.

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Thats just a bizarre rant, much of it incoherent tbh and capped by calling the Championship a pub league.

That's what it is, and unfortunately far too many of our squad relative to other nations, are stuck in it. Hence the results we get.

Look at the promoted teams into this year's EPL. They've won 1 game out of 21 between them, and managed 6 points from 60 odd, against proper footballers in a proper league. Then they're expected to go out and get results against France and Holland or the manager gets sacked. Impossible.

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Liverpool fans opinion on it are irrelevant because they would pick their player over prime Peter Schmeichael if it came to it. Kelleher is a part time keeper right now, and until that changes he cant be taken seriously are long term 1st choice for Ireland. Talent wise he possibly could be, 5-10 games a season isnt gonna cut it though

Yeah, that's all the amount of games he needs to have for us per season as well. How much regular football does he need, to keep goal twice a month for Ireland?

A keeper must be confident, calm, and in control when out there. Not conceding 2 goals per game every game as our current No. 1 is atm. We can't recover that, so we lose.

**ColourfulPeanut** · 03/10/2023, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

I am serious. I don't know what exactly you find hilarious, but people say the best comedy is only funny when it's true.

Look at the promoted teams into this year's EPL. They've won 1 game out of 21 between them, and managed 6 points from 60 odd, against proper footballers in a proper league. Then they're expected to go out and get results against France and Holland or the manager gets sacked. Impossible.

That's just this year. You can counteract that by looking at Fulham last year who finished 10th. Brentford the year before them finished 13th and only narrowly missed out on Europe last season in 9th.

The Championship varies in quality like any league but it's a very good standard of football.

**CraftyToePoke** · 03/10/2023, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

That's what it is, and unfortunately far too many of our squad relative to other nations, are stuck in it. Hence the results we get.

Look at the promoted teams into this year's EPL. They've won 1 game out of 21 between them, and managed 6 points from 60 odd, against proper footballers in a proper league. Then they're expected to go out and get results against France and Holland or the manager gets sacked.

No, it isn't a pub league and whatever other points you make, or try to, are rendered hollow by referring to it as such. It ranks top ten / fifteen in world league measurements in revenue and attendance, depending on which metrics are applied & which source. The drop of from PL to Championship is steep, but what you say is nonsense.

Extreme examples backed by narrow sample size don't do anything for your argument either, Leicester won it in 2016 with many players who had played L1 and most who had played in the Championship promotion campaign, does this mean every promoted side should be a PL winning side ? No because that would be a stupid, ill informed and an agenda riddled thing to say, just like what you said.

So, in your world, your unique reality, may one ask, when does a football league become a pub league mypost ?
Because the Championship is one according to you, so where is the waterline ? Top five leagues ? With everything under that being pub football ?
Entertain me there, go on.

**ontheotherhand** · 03/10/2023, 2:59 PM

It's stupid when people call the LoI a pub league but its absolutely insane to call the Championship that. All to continue backing Kenny and put down one young keeper in favour of another. All a bit wummy and especially odd considering the crest he displays.

**DCWA** · 03/10/2023, 5:28 PM

I don’t like the stranglehold England is getting on club football but to say the Championship is a pub league is insane. It is frankly better than the vast majority of Europe’s top flights.

I’d say Leicester of the Championship would be a top half team in every top flight outside of England and title challengers in most of them for example.

**SkStu** · 03/10/2023, 5:44 PM

It is far and away the highest standard second tier in the world (only Bundesliga 2 might come close off the top of my head - some good teams in there), and id say for sure top 15 leagues in the world overall by most measures. Commonly considered one of the most competitive leagues in Europe too. Not sure why mypost is getting so much airtime on this!! Its a crazy take!

**Razors left peg** · 03/10/2023, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

It is far and away the highest standard second tier in the world (only Bundesliga 2 might come close off the top of my head - some good teams in there), and id say for sure top 15 leagues in the world overall by most measures. Commonly considered one of the most competitive leagues in Europe too. Not sure why mypost is getting so much airtime on this!! Its a crazy take!

I think because its such a bad take people are surprised that anyone even thinks that!

**mypost** · 03/10/2023, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

No, it isn't a pub league and whatever other points you make, or try to, are rendered hollow by referring to it as such. It ranks top ten / fifteen in world league measurements in revenue and attendance, depending on which metrics are applied & which source. The drop of from PL to Championship is steep, but what you say is nonsense.

Extreme examples backed by narrow sample size don't do anything for your argument either, Leicester won it in 2016 with many players who had played L1 and most who had played in the Championship promotion campaign, does this mean every promoted side should be a PL winning side ? No because that would be a stupid, ill informed and an agenda riddled thing to say, just like what you said.

So, in your world, your unique reality, may one ask, when does a football league become a pub league mypost ?
Because the Championship is one according to you, so where is the waterline ? Top five leagues ? With everything under that being pub football ?
Entertain me there, go on.

Attendances and revenue are irrelevant. Nobody wants to be in that league. They're prepared to bankrupt themselves and sack as many coaches if needs be, to get the hell out of it asap and escape it's punishing 46 game long slog. Ipswich have spent 20 years trying to get out of it, with no success. God knows how many managers have been fired in that quest.

This year's bunch who got promoted have been found totally out of their depth already. One of them has lost 8-0 at home. That's not "my reality", (whatever that means) that is fact. Our No. 1 has already seen his team lose a game 5-0. That is not my reality, that's stone cold fact. He might be playing every week, but it's not someone full of confidence, ready to face the best in the world at international level.

Kelleher has played enough games by now for us to know what he's capable of. If anyone doesn't know, it's because they don't want to know, which unfortunately is most people.