Am I right in saying that he’s literally never played in midfield in his life?
Originally Posted by elatedscum
To be fair, he did as a yoof - https://www.the42.ie/nathan-collins-6-5791345-Jun2022/
Played right wing back for Stoke.....wonder would his mistakes be less punishing there?
21 leagues and 25 cups.
There is a bit of ball in the lad without a doubt.
Could be a revelation in the middle of the park.
confirmation bias
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.
I was at the game. Early on my mate (no dog in the fight) thought NC was a bit off it - maybe carrying an injury? Whatever, it's pure gash to say he was the only one who was "trying to defend etc"
My own thought is that it was 4 things (or some combination):
1. BFC missing Pinnock for (I think) the first time this season. He has been immense in the heart of the BFC defence to date, whether in a 3 or a 4. My POTY;
2. NC may be lacking confidence - he was ok until he and Mee screwed up for the 3rd goal, hence his own screw-up for the 4th;
3. Frank's tactics. In previous games vs L'pool, BFC have generally defended deep and hit them on the break. This time, possibly because they're currently missing their 3 quickest players, Henry, Mbuemo and Shade and with a reshaped defence, they tried instead to apply a high press. This worked brilliantly for the first 30 mins, until L'pool settled. After which, it was L'pool who were hitting BFC on the breakl, not v.v.
4. The quality of the L'pool attack.
If it is confidence, then there's no better coach than Frank to resolve it. For example, when Jenssen came iinto the team after Eriksen, he struggled, but over the next season he came into his own, since Frank kept faith in him. Or even Flekken (gk), signed this season to replace Raya. As recently as 3 weeks ago, Bees fans on social media were all for binning him. Then he had a blinder against Man City, and by yesterday, when he v.good vs L'pool, the fans had given him his own song!
Conclusion? NC is struggling for form and consistency at the moment - hardly surprising for a new guy in a constantly changing team which is losing a lot of games just now. Of course he'll have to shape up soon, since there is no sentiment in the PL and BFC are constantly assessing their players, incl looking towards finding upgrades to replace them. But with NC there is definitely a player in there and at 22, sooner or later he's likely to appear.
P.S. He's not a midfielder and never will be (imo).
Admittedly I was excited by his move to Brentford for the money spent – suggesting they saw the potential and that he was undervalued at even that high sum. But not sure his difficulties are an issue of confidence, rather he is prone to defensive mishaps and the move to Brentford has yet to iron this out of his game. Despite his physical attributes, there is a certain softness and weakness in his defending that has followed him in his career to date. As much as Kenny is made out to be inept on the forum, he did lose patience with Collins and dropped him for this. Maybe it down to his age, he is still young and learning the game, but think we should be seeing a better “defender” at this stage of his career. Imagine this is where the calls to move him into midfield come from, mistakes are less fatal if made in midfield? But agree 100%, he is not a midfielder.
So the consensus is he won't be our Declan Rice.
Better to be, Our Caviar.
Commenting during his Press Conference today on Brentford's recent defensive difficulties etc, Thomas Frank noted that:
"I think the last 24 games I have changed my back three or four, or five with the goalkeeper, a lot of times. 19 times we played a different set-up at the back which doesn't help."
It is hardly unexpected that a new, young and inexperienced player like Collins would struggle more in such a situation than eg Mee or Pinnock.
ah he'd get nowhere near England team man.
On that metric of course, Declan Rice would be our Declan Rice.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Hes dropped for the City game today
Its really not that complicated!!!
Yes, one of three players who started vs L'pool who have now been dropped to the bench.
Frank has stuck with a back 3, with NC replaced by 33 y.o. Xanka (aka Jorgensson), an experienced squad player who is usually on the bench but v.rarely starts. He's a big strong lad, mind, so maybe Frank is hoping he won't be too easily bullied by Haaland?
On the bench again tonight, as Bees start with a 3-5-2 away to WHU.
Came off the bench after 61 mins with BFC already 2-1 down - game finished 4-2 to WHU. According to the radio commentary, while BFC's attacking play was pretty good, their defending was shambolic throughout - which has been the story of much of their season recently. They're seriously missing Pinnock (CB who has been excellent this season and last), Rico Henry (outstanding LB, but out for the season) and Raya (now Arsenal's 1st choice gk), while time may finally be catching up with CB Ben Mee this season.
In the circumstances it looks to have been a huge ask for a young, relatively inexperienced CB like NC to come in and steady the ship. But however it works out for him between now and the end of the season, if it doesn't ruin him*, he should be better for the experience over time.
* - Shouldn't think it will, since BFC are v.good at bringing on young players.
Who should have picked up Bowen for goals 2 and 3? They are basically identical, and scored either side of half time - i.e. not addressed at the break. Sure, Collins has made individual errors to warrant a rest from the starting line-up but appears Brentford's defensive organisation is a deeper concern than its individual makeup. But with Luton losing momentum, Brentford should be relatively safe from relegation now - giving leeway to bring Collins back into the team.
I think its fair to say we all expected more from Collins at this stage. When he broke through 1st I thought a move to a top club would have been on the cards by now but for whatever reason he hasnt really improved in the last years or 2. But at this stage hes starting to remind me of Richard Dunnes early career. Dunne was very error prone and it was only when he got into his mid and late 20s that he improved to the point we all loved him. Collins has played a lot of top flight football for a 22 year old center back, more than most would expect, so you'd have to hope that will stand to him eventually.
Its really not that complicated!!!
Four clubs in the last four seasons doesn't help, so hopefully Brentford is a longer stay for him to aid his progress and reach his potential. He has made individual mistakes for Brentford but Brentford do have collective organisational issues which maybe enhance/ make more visible these mistakes? But using the Dunne comparison, I think Collins is a better footballer than Dunne, but Dunne is the better defender (if you know what I mean). Needs to be clued in more, use his strength, and be more aggressive to get to Dunne's level. For example, hard to see Dunne being bullied by Haaland to the same extent as Collins was - (which led to him losing his place in the Wolves team).
Yeah I wouldnt really compare him to Dunne as a player, I was just using Dunne for comparison as a defender who absolutely improved with age
Its really not that complicated!!!
Ben Mee has now been ruled out for the rest of the season (injury). Increases NC's chances of getting back in the team.
Sounds like he went OK today. He is starting out of necessity more than anything at the moment with all the defensive injuries, in truth. But maybe he can play himself back into form. I think maybe he has believed the hype a bit too much in the last couple of years, maybe tries to do too much with the ball but hasn't focused enough on the nuts and bolts of defending - marking, concentration etc. I'm still hopeful he'll come good.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks