Stephen Kenny

**Stuttgart88** · 22/11/2022, 9:24 AM

Just out of curiosity, who are the top tier teams (and in this context I think discussion must be limited to Europe)? All international teams appear vulnerable or "imperfect" to me. France are World Champions and NL holders but are without a win in 6. Spain, Belgium, England, Germany - none without flaws there. I think on their day Portugal are as good as any.

My recollection of the away game was that we rode our luck early: Jota(?) miss and a penalty miss from a harsh decision. But a couple of incisive runs forward by Doherty and Coleman raised the tempo for us and got us into the game and we then played a really accomplished away performance: concede territory but keep them at bay and hit on the counter. We could have had a pen ourselves (Connolly) and we had 2 or 3 dangerous breakaways. It was an almost textbook away performance against a team that I'd rate as considerably better than us. Baz made a good save from a free kick late on and then came the two goals from a world class header of a ball but before that Portugal were getting a bit desperate.

I totally get the criticism of Kenny's tenure - most of it is deserved - but I think the performance in Portugal has to be acknowledged as very good. It's churlish to try to qualify it as "they should have scored first" (isn't that how football works?) or any other stuff like that.

As recently as Scotland away - Parrott scores / Browne doesn't handle the ball stupidly - we could have been appreciating a very good performance. We lost concentration and the midfield battle at key times it's true, but their midfielders are objectively better than ours.

**pineapple stu** · 22/11/2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was an almost textbook away performance against a team that I'd rate as considerably better than us.

I'd agree with that. Could it on another day have finished 5-1? I think so. But it didn't, and among other things that was down to resolute defending on our part which limited the effectiveness of Portugal's 29 shots. That's all part of football.

I don't think it needs be mutually exclusive to consider that we could (rather than should) have lost 5-1, but that we didn't because we defended very well and countered when we could.

There will be "another day" of course - four of them are coming up, against France/Holland - and one of those could very well finish 5-1.

**paul_oshea** · 22/11/2022, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just out of curiosity, who are the top tier teams (and in this context I think discussion must be limited to Europe)? All international teams appear vulnerable or "imperfect" to me. France are World Champions and NL holders but are without a win in 6. Spain, Belgium, England, Germany - none without flaws there. I think on their day Portugal are as good as any.

My recollection of the away game was that we rode our luck early: Jota(?) miss and a penalty miss from a harsh decision. But a couple of incisive runs forward by Doherty and Coleman raised the tempo for us and got us into the game and we then played a really accomplished away performance: concede territory but keep them at bay and hit on the counter. We could have had a pen ourselves (Connolly) and we had 2 or 3 dangerous breakaways. It was an almost textbook away performance against a team that I'd rate as considerably better than us. Baz made a good save from a free kick late on and then came the two goals from a world class header of a ball but before that Portugal were getting a bit desperate.

I totally get the criticism of Kenny's tenure - most of it is deserved - but I think the performance in Portugal has to be acknowledged as very good. It's churlish to try to qualify it as "they should have scored first" (isn't that how football works?) or any other stuff like that.

As recently as Scotland away - Parrott scores / Browne doesn't handle the ball stupidly - we could have been appreciating a very good performance. We lost concentration and the midfield battle at key times it's true, but their midfielders are objectively better than ours.

You've said there for first paragraph a) you've given reasons for why we had a great away performance and dismiss others observations about X y or z. Then you inverse the argument and use X y z as reasons why the other games should/could be considered the same. You can't have it both ways. My observation was it was a one off Russia type backs to the wall type performance - but willing to counter and get them on the break unlike Russia game. We got lucky and scraped through that one with a draw but like Portugal on another day Russia would have scored some of those misses; except with that performance we backed it up consistently in that group

**weldoninhio** · 22/11/2022, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just out of curiosity, who are the top tier teams (and in this context I think discussion must be limited to Europe)? All international teams appear vulnerable or "imperfect" to me. France are World Champions and NL holders but are without a win in 6. Spain, Belgium, England, Germany - none without flaws there. I think on their day Portugal are as good as any.

My recollection of the away game was that we rode our luck early: Jota(?) miss and a penalty miss from a harsh decision. But a couple of incisive runs forward by Doherty and Coleman raised the tempo for us and got us into the game and we then played a really accomplished away performance: concede territory but keep them at bay and hit on the counter. We could have had a pen ourselves (Connolly) and we had 2 or 3 dangerous breakaways. It was an almost textbook away performance against a team that I'd rate as considerably better than us. Baz made a good save from a free kick late on and then came the two goals from a world class header of a ball but before that Portugal were getting a bit desperate.

I totally get the criticism of Kenny's tenure - most of it is deserved - but I think the performance in Portugal has to be acknowledged as very good. It's churlish to try to qualify it as "they should have scored first" (isn't that how football works?) or any other stuff like that.

As recently as Scotland away - Parrott scores / Browne doesn't handle the ball stupidly - we could have been appreciating a very good performance. We lost concentration and the midfield battle at key times it's true, but their midfielders are objectively better than ours.

I’d say France, Germany, Belgium, England, Brazil and Argentina would be above the rest of the world.

The very top tier. Portugal would be a rung below them.

**Jd2793** · 22/11/2022, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

I’d say France, Germany, Belgium, England, Brazil and Argentina would be above the rest of the world.

The very top tier. Portugal would be a rung below them.

germany are below portugal in the fifa rankings. germany have been waning since 2018.

**weldoninhio** · 22/11/2022, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jd2793

germany are below portugal in the fifa rankings. germany have been waning since 2018.

Iran are in the top 20 of the FIFA rankings. I’ll revisit the “waning” Germans with you after this World Cup.

**pineapple stu** · 22/11/2022, 12:41 PM

I think there's always a feeling around Portugal that they never quite live up to their potential; that they underachieve. Three wins across their last three World Cups for example. Better record at the Euros but bottled their own tournament by losing to Greece twice, and even when they won, they only won one match in 90 minutes.

They don't have the aura Germany/France/Spain/Holland/England or even Belgium have, despite of course the latter three not winning anything in decades, if ever. They all feel more consistent though.

Portugal are a bit of an enigma in a way

**Stuttgart88** · 22/11/2022, 12:41 PM

France only came 3rd in their group and England got relegated from the Nations League though. Germany are erratic. Brazil & Argentina (lost to Saudi

) aren't really in the mix as the discussion is who are the top tier sides in context of European qualifying groups. I think there's a fine line dividing Europe's best 6-8 teams. They're all very good but they have flaws. But it's a subjective opinion of course. I'd say you're right in the sense that Portugal would be second favorites ex ante against any of those 4, but really not by much.

(edited: I thought France got relegated but Tets corrected me)

**tetsujin1979** · 22/11/2022, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

I’d say France, Germany, Belgium, England, Brazil and Argentina would be above the rest of the world.

The very top tier. Portugal would be a rung below them.

Portugal, second behind Spain in group A2, did better than all of those in their nations League campaign this year, except Belgium who also finished second. France finished third in their nations league group, so did Germany. and England were relegated from theirs without a win

**Jd2793** · 22/11/2022, 12:46 PM

the agenda is hilarious. no point engaging any more.

**Stuttgart88** · 22/11/2022, 12:57 PM

Latvia next up in March, a friendly just before we play France. Just announced.

120 more sleeps.

**pineapple stu** · 22/11/2022, 1:01 PM

Oh God.

Lithuania, Malta, and now Latvia.

You can't help feel we're finding our level with these friendly opponents...

Is it home or away?

**Jd2793** · 22/11/2022, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Latvia next up in March, a friendly just before we play France. Just announced.

120 more sleeps.

another episode of struggle-ball

**Stuttgart88** · 22/11/2022, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Oh God.

Lithuania, Malta, and now Latvia.

You can't help feel we're finding our level with these friendly opponents...

Is it home or away?

Home I think.

**tetsujin1979** · 22/11/2022, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Oh God.

Lithuania, Malta, and now Latvia.

You can't help feel we're finding our level with these friendly opponents...

Is it home or away?

To be fair the selection for opposition is limited, given that the first round of qualification fixtures will be taking place at the time

**Eminence Grise** · 22/11/2022, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

I’d say France, Germany, Belgium, England, Brazil and Argentina would be above the rest of the world.

The very top tier. Portugal would be a rung below them.

Saudi Arabia, maybe?

**joey B** · 22/11/2022, 2:53 PM

https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce....html?gender=u

Decent article from Gary Breen in the Indo,focuses on our lack of creativity in the final third and our poor defending from set pieces,Breen doesn’t have much confidence in Kenny rectifying either….

**Razors left peg** · 22/11/2022, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Portugal are a decent team, but not top tier. Maybe once they get rid of the preening peacock who is well past his sell by date they’ll emerge better, but until his Me Fein ways are gone, much like last season at United, he’ll score goals, but the team will be worse for having him in it, because he demands everything goes to him.

Show me another all time great goalscorer who wasnt selfish on the pitch?

**Diggs246** · 22/11/2022, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Show me another all time great goalscorer who wasnt selfish on the pitch?

Conor sammon

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 22/11/2022, 6:14 PM

It seems vital for Kenny supporters to talk up any opposition we come against. Remember even Luxembourg and Azerbaijan were talked up. Strangely, prior to Kenny coming on board, other teams were all beatable. Barely coming behind Denmark and Switzerland was seen as an abject failure.

For the last 40 years we've competed with all the top teams, we qualify for tournaments or come close to qualifying. When we haven't, the manager gets sacked. Even Staunton drew with Germany and Czech Republic. We now are looking at the euro qualifiers as hopeless but that's where Kenny has dragged us. Into no hopers. It's some achievement in 2 years!