Cork City FC in Serious Danger

**Pablo** · 13/02/2002, 3:16 PM

how long before the bad results lower the crowds and city are in financial trouble again?

Neil · 13/02/2002, 3:27 PM

Originally posted by Pablo
how long before the bad results lower the crowds and city are in financial trouble again?

400 for Limerick game, 500 for Dundalk, barely a thousand for Bohs game. It's not just the results that affect the crowds - It's also lack of advertising, terrible football, bad management, lack of ambition by anyone in the club.

We are in serious trouble and we have been since we got rid of Mountfield. That was the first sign that the club had given up on trying to progress. They should leave now and let someone alse have a go.

**Pablo** · 13/02/2002, 3:43 PM

same ol story in Cork football. lets hope it doesent go the way of previous cork clubs....who would have said Hibs and Celtic would go to the wall with the success they had

**patsh** · 13/02/2002, 3:53 PM

I've posted much the same comment in another thread, but
=>
bad performance = lower crowds
lower crowds = less money
less money = worse players
worse players = bad performance
=>
bad performance = lower crowds
lower crowds = less money
less money = worse players
worse players = bad performance
=>
bad performance = lower crowds
lower crowds = less money
less money = worse players
worse players = bad performance and so on and on.......
This could be the real beginnings of a very bad cycle of decline, unless something is done now, today ............

Giving Ollie a decent wage, and something to look forward to would be the first step..........

**Zedi** · 13/02/2002, 6:10 PM

I agree with the above.............but also sacking a manager which a lot of people want won't help either........and a crowd screaming abuse during a game certainly won't increase the crowds. There is great potential for a major soccer team in Cork( Munster) so maybe the board should bring in some new blood with bobs and ideas. Have one look at the night owls league........ from nothin' to mega-bobs in no time...and that was mostly ideas not money.

**Snatch** · 13/02/2002, 7:28 PM

The club must are definately sailing close to the wind financially wise. It is a hard task for anybody to pull things around for an eircom league club.

All this talk about sacking the board bewilders me. If the board pack it in the club ceases to be. Remember this board saved the club from extinction some years ago. They were on a good footing after Dave Barry saved the club on the pitch by building a strong team of local lads with great support for the citizens. I know for a fact that even during the boom times of 98/99 the club was barely receiving enough income.

Things crashed with the Mountfield affair and Gunther has been trying to pull things around the Dave Barry way. At first it seemed to work but has stalled since.

I know there are many things the board should do to improve the club but one has to look at it realistically. Since they saved the club from liquidation, Turners Cross (I know we don't own it) has changed beyond recognition and we have finished near the top of the league for seasons now. We also have a successful youth system and several full time professionals which we didn't have before. All this was done even though the attendances were indifferent at best (the Cross was not actually full for the big games against St. Pats in 99)

Questions
1.Is it really all the board's problem that 400 people turn up to a league cup game?

2. What will sacking the board (if that's possible) do besides killing the club?

3. Is the club better off now than after the demise of Bishopstown?

**James** · 13/02/2002, 8:04 PM

Yes they did save the club..but that doesnt intitle them to rest on that for the past 3 or so years as they have done

u say murphy has stalled ..i say he's going backward and fast..the mans clutching at straws over who to blame..the fan..the players..the oppositiion were too strong..the wind...the weather...the grass was too short...he had a dodgy burger at half time...anything but himself...

True again Turners Cross has changed but the board shouldnt get the praise for this.
AFAIK the majority of money came from the following sources..
The FAI
Munster Senoir League
and our own hard working CCFC lotto committee that riased a great of money from selling lotto tickets that paid for alot of the St Annes end seats..that were needed b4 the Lausanne game got the go ahead from UEFA..

True we have an excellant youth system from Stiofan Naofa but we shouldnt be too reliant on them..the younger players need to learn their trade and not be too dependant on them week in week out..

Attendances- again true, the ground has never if ever been full (100%) since the pats game or even back further to the decider with dundalk in 91...but then again what LOI ground has been.
FACT: Cork City prob have over the last 5 years the highest average attendance in the league...so for example in comparason to $hels why is it they can afford these players when they regualrly get crowds of 500 or so...and tell me whose fault that is for being too reliant on gate receipts and the work/proceeds of the lotto committee and volunteers..?

well ?

FACT: we are run as a hobby club Shels are run like a business..if anything we should be one of the richest clubs in the league going purely on attendance..

Now your 3 questions
---------------------------
1 Yes

2 You cant sack a board..but if they stood down or sold out then youd see who was interested in buying and saving CCFC

3 NO...both situations were very bad..but now the gap between us and the top clubs has grown even larger..their is an apathy amoungst more and more supporters towards the current situation..whereas b4 bishopstown was the root of the problem and once we left there the crowds came back..the change required now is a much deep rooted one..ie a complete change in attitude from men too ignorant to know the great potential of this club and it saddens me to say this

**yan** · 14/02/2002, 8:35 AM

we will see what kind of crowds turn up for the shels and shamrock rvrs games and then judge what the fans think of murphy's football

**pete** · 14/02/2002, 9:52 AM

Originally posted by Snatch
I know for a fact that even during the boom times of 98/99 the club was barely receiving enough income.

You've got to be kidding me?

Saying the cross wasn't full is a stupid argument. Bohs won the league last year & i doubr they got more than 6k at a league game against their biggest rivals from the same city. That season city were getting over 4k for games against the smaller teams & there were 5-10 games with over 6k attendances. That league cup games against shamrock rovers had at least 8k at.

I can accept the club ain't making much money on a week to week basis now but they also have the 50k from Leicester every year & must have had money left over from the those 2 very good years.

Whilst the gradula development of the cross has been very good none of that has been financed from the clubs budget. The club lotto money is raised by supporters & this as close as the club come to contributing to the development costs.

btw no ones mentioned if they actually sacked Murphy they'd have to pay the rest of his contract off.

**patsh** · 14/02/2002, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by yan
we will see what kind of crowds turn up for the shels and shamrock rvrs games and then judge what the fans think of murphy's football

I think very little of Murphy's brand of football, but turn up anyway. By going to games,
I'm showing my support for the club, not demonstrating my approval of LM's tactics.
I would think most, if not all, fans are there for the same reasons as I am.
If fans are going to show what they think of LM's football by their attendance/non-attendance at games,
I would think the club coffers better prepare for a serious hit...........

**Troy.McClure** · 14/02/2002, 11:13 AM

I think that last year screwed the budget for this year and maybe next year aswell. DM would have been very highly paid in eL terms I'd say, the fact that he was sacked so his contract had to be paid out in full (posably as a lump sum) and giving LM & Patsy a rise for becoming manager & coach had a deep effect on the accounts. Steve Gaughn would also have hit hard. I (again suppose) that there was a fee paid to Halixax (or where-ever) and his pay would have had to be matched. Id say that he was by far and away the biggest earner (on the playing staff) at the club. This year we have seen a tightening of finances, where players were let go, more to get them off the payroll as much as anything else and where players come in, they were on free transfers or youths. If Rovers win the cup I think that we will get the Intertotto cup place. For all of the stick that the team have got for their displays, they have still managed 4 points from their last 6. I aint a big supporter of LM's tactics either, but I still try to encourage the team on to victory, so here's hoping against Pats!

**pete** · 14/02/2002, 11:24 AM

Maybe this also goes for virtually every other eL club but the whole situation last year goes to show how poorly the club planned everything.

They appeared to have no commitment to bringing the club forward as once things didn't go well they abandoned everything.

- Bought players for big money (for city anyway)
- Fulltime manager was brought in, left weeks later when he hadn't signed a contract, brought in another manager, then sacked & they thought could get away without paying the rest of his contract.
- Fulltime Commercial Manager broiught in & gone less than 9 months later.
- Claimed the inter-toto would cost the club money - why compete in so?

The Board seem to be like Liam Murphy. Only plan is plan A, when that fails give up.

Nothing over the last few years suggests the current Board members have any medium term plan for the club or really know what they are doing. People who went to Cork Hibs or Celtic games in the past must have seen last season as typical of the bumbling that went on in the 70's.

**niamh** · 14/02/2002, 1:56 PM

Even some of the "bigger" Dublin clubs are struggling. But if things carry on like this it ain't good for the future. City will always have it's hard core but fair weather supporters are needed to keep the club in good nick financially and they ain't coming to watch a team that can't score at home and who lose to a First Division club...

**Snatch** · 14/02/2002, 9:04 PM

[QUOTE]

Originally posted by James
[B]Yes they did save the club..but that doesnt intitle them to rest on that for the past 3 or so years as they have done

After Barry went back to full time plubing and family man 3 years ago, the board strove to make the club more professional by giving players full time contracts and paying a fulltime manager. Had foot.ie been around then I presume all the current board knockers would have praised them for investing in the manager and playing staff. How can you say the board did nothing for the past 3 years?

However in case people have forgotten this ambitious approach failled and the board/club found itself fiancially out of sorts. Perhaps the board over reached like what happened in the Bishopstown saga. Opting for a local man like Gunther was probably their only option.

As for Gunther, I also believe he is clutching at strays. I was of the opinion that he was very lucky to pull of those results last season. However he is making good use of the youth system that was structured during the reign of this board.

**Éanna** · 15/02/2002, 1:26 PM

the board in its current guise have done a good job, but i dont think they can take us much further.

**Pablo** · 18/02/2002, 4:51 PM

Well to be honest i have a lot of fear for CCFC. its obviously poorly run. There is a lack of ambition, crowds are down, regular dressing room disquiet, a bewildered set of die hard fans and lets be honest, what is the solution?

its a daunting situation.

Bohs have just given Glen Crowe €250,000 over 3 years on his new contract with a view to getting to tyhe group stages of the champions league. Thats ambition.

how can we ever compete with that? never

**Troy.McClure** · 18/02/2002, 5:15 PM

Originally posted by Pablo
Bohs have just given Glen Crowe €250,000 over 3 years on his new contract with a view to getting to tyhe group stages of the champions league. Thats ambition.

Ambition doesnt equal success, as can be clearly/ironically seen by Bohs this year, who can only get into Europw by winning the cup.

If Bohs can actually afford to give one player €83K a year, then fair enough, but I honestly dont think that they can. I wouldnt be surprized if he was sold in a year or two and if he is not, then they better be in Europe EVERY year,with a good and lucky run (ie teams from good leagues who's tv stations will pay for the match to be screened, ie Kisersloutern). If they are unlucky like us and keep getting "nobody" eastern teams like CSKA Kiev & Lusanne, then they will be well and truely fecked. Bohs IMO are far off from being guarenteed winning the league year in year out... just like Shels were a few years back.

If we were to pay Ollie €80K a year, we would be dumb, thick & stupid. I wish it could happen, but it cant

**Pablo** · 18/02/2002, 5:29 PM

i think that is pessimistic and shortsighted.....Bohs are looking forward and good luck to them.....$hel$ and to a lesser degree rovers and Pats are progressive also.

I'm sad to sat City are going to be left behind....

**joe** · 18/02/2002, 6:01 PM

Originally posted by Troy.McClure

If they are unlucky like us and keep getting "nobody" eastern teams like CSKA Kiev & Lusanne, then they will be well and truely fecked.

IMO Bohs would consider such draws lucky as they would fancy their chances of making it through to the next round.

**Patsys Fags** · 18/02/2002, 9:09 PM

I would consider getting to the next round of a euro cup more important than getting a big team.The capacity at the cross is around 7,000 so no matter who city would get thats all that could fit in,anyway we usually get well above average gates no matter who we get.