Yes and I think we do need to go to 4-3-3 and leverage Ogbene's tirelessness on the right to support on that side and deepest of the front 3 when out of possession.Originally Posted by liamoo11
It's Ferguson plus one for me, except maybe against Gibraltar type teams. Connolly the latest to put his hand up to be the plus one. Obviously at least two more bench options needed also, but we have about eight forwards competing for that one starting support forward position. Would guess Ogbene remains the man in possession right now, but it's wide open really.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
The problem as I see it with that is we are so short on full backs. Basically in a 4 we would only have o shea and Coleman as full backs. Manning doherty o dowda mcclean ebosele Stevens all wing backs all poor at defending even as wing backs definitely no where near good enough in defending as full backs. O shea poor going forward from full back and Coleman injured for the time being . Ogbene just not good enough in my opinion for us to be setting up the whole team to fit him in when we don't have full backs and don't have another natural wide player for the front three with johnson injured. Ogbene is poor technically lacks guile his game is based on pure pace and workload . That opportunity he butchered when he couldn't play the pass to put ferguson in against France just sums him up great athlete great pro great workrate but no where near the level of creative player you need to qualify for a tournament and certainly not the level that you decide to go back to a 4 at the back when you have no actual full backs of an international standard
Okay. I think Ogbene has done well for Ireland. And I don't think 3-5-2 works anymore.
I would gladly see us go to 4 at the back and if it were Coleman, Egan, Collins and O'Shea then I wouldn't be upset.
I think the 5 has a chance of working if you drop egan play collins centrally play I shea to the left and omobamidele right with manning and ebosele wing backs. That let's yiu push your wing backs high because you have pace in your centre halves which we don't have when we play egan and your full backs are athletic enough to get up and back which unfortunately doherty just wasn't in Greece which gave us issues. That allows you have a midfield 3 of Cullen molumby and smaallbone with knoght a good backup who don't have to cover all the wide areas in midfield by themselves because you can push your wingbacks high into this space and fill the space behind by pushing your back three high cause you have the pace to recover . In Greece our back 5 sat so deep poor small bone was ran ragged covering the wide area in 2/ 3 rds of the field. That let's you have ferguson up top with players like parrott, connolly and obafemi who can compliment him in different ways and players like idah and keane who maybe offer him backup . A set up like that let's you compress the game and keeps you compact with a keeper like Kelleher or bazunu who are comfortable having a starting position high in their area and prepared to swerp
Going a bit off topic here but I think there will have to be a discussion about Egan fairly soon. He's not particularly fast or a particularly good ball player, and some of his defending for both club and country in the last year has been poor. Not at all sure he's one of our best three or four centre backs at the moment.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
I agree here. Has built a great career and a great pro. There is a reason though that he has never been signed by a side in the Premier league or any other top league in Europe. He hold our kine far too deep because he doesn't trust his pace(rightly) and doesn't have that ability to step out land play ike a collins has. If your holding a deep defensive line you have no chance of having your midfield andvsttack connected unless you have top top athletic technical midfielders which obviously we don't have. You end up then with your midfield dropped into your backl8ne with way too much distance between your midfield and attack which makes you toothless which we certainly are regardless of the attacking personel we play
I'd play a back four also, with Dara O'Shea at RB. Collins and Egan at CB.
You could also play Omobamidele at RB, O'Shea at LB if just looking for pure defensive solidity.
I think you get nothing going forward if you play those centre backs as full backs and you don't have the quality of wide forward players higher up the pitch to make up for it in terms of creativity . If you had mcgeady and duff at their peak and some kind of vague creativity in centre midfield I could maybe see the argument for playing the centre backs as fullbacks but not with what we have in those wide forward and creative midfield positions
I think Omobamidele should be in midfield - protection in front of a back four - and he is able to pass the ball (Collins could also play this role). We have a few CBs and we need to get one of them into the old Paul McGrath role.
Rosenior said after the game that Connolly isn't fit and can't play for more than 30 minutes - said he had a lot of work to put in to improve his fitness.
Connolly is a bit chunky but I reckon he might look that way even if fully fit.
Interesting take on Wolves v Brighton at the weekend in the Guardian (fourth talking point on the list).
Is the use of a strike partnership the next tactical step in football? Wolves and Brighton both started – and played most of the latter’s 4-1 win at Molineux – in 4-4-2 formations
If three man midfields have been in vogue for about 25 years, and 442 for 25 years before that, we're probably due a tactical shift of some sort. We've probably always been better suited to 442 than any other formation, and it might allow us to make better use of our strike talent - two strikers unlikely to score are still more likely than one on his own! - but whether it's really coming into fashion again, who knows?
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Little and Large might make a comeback ! !
4-4-2 usually only worked for us in the sense that we completely bypassed central midfield when attacking, so there wasn't much point having three in there anyway. In defence we tended to sit our two centre midfielders deep in front of the centre backs to avoid being overrun (and then launched the ball long again once back in possession).
I'm not sure that works anymore, unless we're planning on going back to a very simplistic style of play. When playing any kind of passing game, three in midfield generally beats two in midfield eventually, as the extra man just gives you more chance of gaining control in that area. If anything I could see any future change in the game being towards a fourth central midfielder - so you could maybe have a variation on our current 3-5-2 where one of the centre backs pushes forward into midfield when we're in possession to create an effective four man centre midfield (Hi Nathan, you're up). A few teams have tried something similar to this previously I think, it is/was known as "overlapping centre backs" in that case (though slightly different as the centre back often overlapped into wider areas). Such a system puts a lot of responsibility on your full backs/wing backs to cover huge areas of the field though.
Last edited by Eirambler; 21/08/2023 at 10:11 PM.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
I’d play a 4-3-3 - I know why we moved to a 5-3-2 / 5-2-3 but I think it really hinders domination and control of the game. And we play more players out of position in it than the other way round.
I fully believe Doc can play at right back, and i also think Manning can come play at left back. He played a season at Swansea as a LCB.
Bazunu in goal
Doc on the right. (Backup Coleman)
Collins and one of Egan, Duffy, Omobamidele, O’Shea at centre back
Manning or O’Shea on the left
Cullen and Molumby deep, with Smallbone a little more advanced.
Ogbene on the right wing
Connolly or Johnston on the left
Ferguson up top.
Ferguson and a rejuvenated Connolly could make an interesting front two, if Connolly can stay fit and living as a professional footballer should.
We don't have the out and out fullbacks to play a straight back four right now against anyone decent. Well, we have one, but he's 34. Doherty and Manning just can't do it, it's not their game, they are wing backs. The alternatives are worse again.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
Do a Man City and put four CBs across the defence. First and foremost you want your defenders to be able to defend. Apart from Coleman I wouldn't be highlighting the defensive capabilities of O'Dowda, Manning, Doherty, or Brady as positives. Three of them are wingers and Doherty is a FB that's only looked good when playing WB.
Don't see us getting second but it's still mathematically there till we at least play the Greeks. Think a lose to the Dutch and it's still not mathematically gone unless we fail to get three points at home to Greece. Don't see us getting a play off either as some teams below us in the NL are performing well in their groups.
So that will likely leave us with two friendlies in March and at least two in the summer. Whomever the manager is should roll the dice and use the friendlies next year to cap the young LBs in the U21s. U21s only have San Marino in March and no qualifiers in June. Won't get a more perfect time to try it out with the NL now bringing in promotion and relegation playoffs for all the leagues.
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