While we're on the subject of O'Neill, let's not forget the two points that he gift wrapped and handed to Austria ten weeks ago at the Aviva. Those points would have come in very handy right now.Originally Posted by AlanOB
Anyway, he wasn't out on the pitch in Tiblisi tonight and although he can be blamed for playing the wrong personnel from the start (Hoolahan and McGeady should have started, with a view to bringing Daryl Horgan from the bench if need be) the lion's share of culpability must go to the players themselves. Was there not even one man who could stop and say "Lads this hoof ball is not working, let's play it on the deck and try to keep possession"?
Apparently not.
So the take away from all of this, is that we are incapable of playing football the way it was meant to be played - and it has been that way throughout this whole campaign
Ok, let's assume you're right, and to be quite honest I wouldn't put it past them to sneak a lucky winner against Serbia, but where do we go from there?
How can we eradicate this prehistoric type of performance from our game.
I would bet big money that the nucleus of the current Dundalk and Cork City sides, with a smattering of Rovers players would have put up a better performance in Georgia tonight.
Fear for us against Serbia?
What about after that?
Where is the national team headed in the long term?
Strange as it might sound but I was quite encouraged last year by the emergence of Jack Byrne in Holland.
By the sound of things he was a midfield general in the making - unfortunately he has got sidetracked a little in his career.
But based on that performance tonight, we are crying out for a midfielder to impose himself upon our game.
Liam Kelly should have played for Ireland against Georgia.
Alan Judge also has something to offer.
We need to start playing players who are comfortable on the ball, not give it away like a hot potato.
Dont think I have been as depressed after an Ireland performance in quite a while. That was SO poor. We were very fortunate to draw but probably had enough chances to win.
I dont have the energy to analyse that performance. However, I really feel we are in danger of throwing away an excellent position in the group (post win in Austria) and a real opportunity with this group generally - like how often are we going to get a group with no big first seed. To qualify we need two big performances now, Tuesday night and away to Wales. Either way, it looks like it will now come down to that last game and Wales will be very much alive. The question is whether we will be sufficiently placed so that a draw will do that night. We need a finish to the group similar to what we managed in the last campaign after the Scotland game with a big home win needed Tuesday night.
You look at our squad and there is plenty of premiership/good quality players. Then you look at the Georgian team passing the ball around us for fun, you look at what the North are doing with the resources they have..........dont tell me we cant play football. Tonight was shambolic - the number of passes and possession stats were pathetic.
I don't think we were fortunate to draw. Georgia I think had two shots on target - the goal (which was a really well-worked move) and a shot from distance deflected on target by Duffy.
So partly we defended well, and partly Georgia ultimately weren't up to much going forward. So they can have no gripes about not winning.
Obviously we really didn't deserve to win. But a draw was fair.
They have their own failings of course but for 60-65 minutes they slaughtered us. Regardless of the chance count, they just looked far superior. Going on the sound logic that the team who performs better deserves to win, then they deserved to win, and we definitely deserved to lose.
They were better for sure. Technically streets ahead of us. Even their keeper - who gifted us the goal - played better than Randolph.
But they didn't deserve to win because in the end of the day, they created very little. We had more chances than they had - McClean, Duffy, Long and McGeady all had decent chances.
Yeah, but think what might have happened if we actually passed the ball in 10 - 15 pass moves. How much less possession would Georgia have had. They would have had to chase shadows and tire out in the heat, like we ultimately did.
Again I ask, is there no one in the Irish team who can grab his team mates by the scruff of the neck and demand from them that they actually play the ball on the deck, like they do week in and week out for their clubs.
That was prehistoric stuff last night.
And I look at Keane and O'Neill, two players who played for a Forest team who would have dropped you like a rock if you performed as the Irish players did yesterday. Why didn't our management team step in and demand better at half time.
But then again if you have a manager who can't see the difference between an Irish team and an Irish team with Hoolahan at the controls, then what's the point.
Let's up the ante for all and sundry for Tuesday night.
Everyone has to do their job.
No hoofing the ball aimlessly.
Midfielders have to show for defenders so the ball can be worked through the middle and front men have to either go wide or in behind their markers.
And the effin manager has to put the right people on the pitch from the off (I really don't know what's got into O'Neill - he used to be so tuned in).
Anyway, it's play Hoolahan from the off or give up the job and go home.
Correct. All of the above mentioned players had a chance to find the net - McClean wasted a header from 8 yards out, Long just needed to cushion his volley and it was 2-0, Duffy was least culpable - he actually headed back across goal and was unlucky that the keeper checked his stride beforehand to make the save, and McGeady ballooned it over the top when he should have taken a step back to get over the ball and volley home from ten yards out. Enough chances to have won alright. But it would have been an injustice had we beaten a team who bossed the proceedings for 75 of the 90 minutes.
So we were worth our draw?... I just can't get on board with that after such an utterly pathetic performance. Our goal shouldn't have even counted. We deserved zilch. But anyway, it doesn't matter I guess.
I think so. We defended well and had more chances, and that's part of the game.
We were utterly atrocious. I couldn't be bothered trying to find positives. But, Christ, some media outlets would let you believe the world of Irish football was about to end.
This lad, in particular, would want to relax. Our under 21 team rarely does well. It always takes our players slightly longer to break through. The good win by our under 19 side gets ignored (the author is probably unaware, to be fair). I'm not sure why every poor result or performance leads to this reaction.
Irish football's problems go deeper than the Wes Hoolahan debate http://the42.ie/3578092
I think it's the possession stat that people will use to counter your points above. They did have much more of the ball than us and moved it quicker and our midfield looked lost at sea. I don't know was McClean asked to go in there and roll up his sleeves or if he did it himself.
The possession stat is an obvious stick and, perhaps, a fair one to beat the performance with but Georgia had far less chances and their goal was the result of criminal defence by Christie and it wouldn't have been scored if Coleman were there (reaching a bit there, I know).
I think we were utterly atrocious but I don't think it's fair to say one team deserved it more than the other. It's not black and white in that regard, in my opinion. But I don't want to accentuate too many of the positives from that game either because, on the whole, it was unacceptable.
Our defenders played okay, not sure I'd agree we defended well overall though. Arter and Whelan were desperately poor so everything was a bit last ditch and made for very uncomfortable viewing, particularly in the first half. Defending well for me should be a team effort and being more solid throughout. I thought Duffy and Clark did well alright under incredibly difficult circumstances.
RE: Olé Olé's post
The42's audience will eat that up, to be fair. That's all that matters -- clicks.
It's hard to justify the length of some their pieces too, given the content within. That one is particularly incoherent...much like our manager's tactical approach!
I don't think the possession stat is too relevant in modern football. The matches in the Euros largely consisted of two teams trying to give the other the ball, then sit back deep, invite them on and hit them on the break. 35 v 65 possession is common enough for a team to win with I think.
(I agree with you on Christie, though I don't think you can make the point about gifting goals without referencing our goal)
I'd agree with this.I think we were utterly atrocious, but I don't it's fair to say one team deserved it more than the other.
My worry is an in-form Serbia won't be quite so toothless as Georgia were
Also, a lot of that 42.ie article seems to be a copy and paste of an article by Richie Sadlier in the Irish Times yesterday
Georgians were considered among the most technically gifted players in the old soviet teams. I consider them to be a decent team who have been desperately unlucky in this group. They should have taken 6 points off us,3 off wales and not lost to either Serbia or Austria at home. With a bit of nous,they could be top of this group. I reckon they can make euro 2020 if they maintain progress.
Regarding us,it is glaringly obvious we are a better team with Wes. Our players have an outlet to pass it to;rather than the hopeful hoof up the field. Eamon Dumphy made a valid point that wes inspires confidence and while he is now a 35 year old championship player, i would agree. We have others like Arter and Brady (even Hendrick too) that are decent ball players. There is no reason for us to play like that. Northern Ireland with an inferior player pool play far nicer stuff than we do. That is on Martin O'Neill in my opinion,just like it was on Trap.
I find the article on our underage structure somewhat tiresome. If anything,we have produced some terrific talent in the last 2-3 years. McCauley is with Brewster the best underage talent in Liverpool (not including Woodburn),while Masterson and Kelleher are doing well too. Tyreke Wilson is making great progress at City and by all accounts has the attitude which Jack Byrne doesn't have. Lee O'Connor is one of the most highly rated youth players at United. There is a very strong contingent of Irish youths at Brighton,Southampton and Villa. Jack Hayes is touted as potentially outstanding and Sean Brennan also. We have Idah at Norwich too who i rate very highly. Parrott is a fabulous talent - as good an underage talent i've seen in years from Dublin. St Kevin's have beaten Barca and other top clubs over the past number of years.
Most of those lads will end up back in the loi or they will drop down the divisions,but if we even get one world class player or two very decent players from them, then that keeps us competitive. The Fai have a lot to answer for,as do those who run schoolboy football,but we are still against all odds producing talent.
We were muck, but they didn't have enough in attack to score more. I think we can say we were lucky.
From their perspective, they were gifted possession and territory for most of the game, and didn't manage to create much at all. I don't think they can say they were unlucky.
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