This is my example of the NHS.
Mrs BTTW is currently pregnant. When she gives birth it will be in an NHS hospital. If things go as the have previously we will have a night spent in an NHS hospital. We will have the care of a midwife and a few nurses. My son or daughter will be delivered in a safe environment (most likely a waterbirth in a suite built to to accomodate that).
If anything goes wrong a team of consultant surgeons, anesthetists, nurses etc will be on hand to save her life and my childs life.
All of this will be provided free of charge at the point of delivery (quite literally in this case). I have been paying or it in advance since i was 18 and got a job.
I am able to pay for it, and type this, because when it went wrong as I was being born, and i needed the help of crash team to save my life, there was one there free of charge, paid for in advance by my father and mother.
Bringing this back to the original subject, when the day comes for a referendum in ROI, I can think of no better reason for Irish unity than the fact that we bring with us the infrastructure of an all-Ireland health service, provided for free at the point on delivery. We can work out the money later!
Last edited by backstothewall; 20/05/2017 at 11:18 AM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Giving birth in Ireland is much the same. On public health care, it doesn't cost a cent.Originally Posted by backstothewall
Well of course it costs money. You're just paying in a different way instead of a bill when you leave.
Here's mine
Recently my knee popped in a 50/50 indoor soccer match. I felt it pop, not in agony but a pops a pop and I did some knee bends in the dressing room and told the guys to take me off the text list for games for the foreseeable & went home, I knew it was not good.
A&E the next day, described it to the nurse, was referred to a higher up nurse who examined me. Twisted and turned it and nearly brought tears from me, she said it was not ruptured, I repeated I felt it pop and had had a look online and felt my MCR was gone. She said no. Said to give it 4 weeks minimum and not to expect it to be pain free, after that go to a GP if I wasn't coming from it but clearly, she was sure I wouldn't need to.
I pressed her, and got nowhere. She was borderline dismissive.
GP 5 weeks or so later, I get referred for an MRI, wait two more weeks for MRI appt, which when it comes back shows, a ruptured MCR ligament.
Again I wait, two weeks for an appt letter in a hospital in a different town even though the consultant does weekly surgeries in the town I'm in it turns out when I finally see him, another week or more after the letter. They guy decides on a brace and crutches, with a follow up every two weeks for eight weeks followed by physio.
The brace he sent the nurse for isn't in stock so another one is brought, totally different and she warned me it wasn't exactly an award winner. And its worse than useless, I mean no matter how tight I fasten it, within two steps it has fallen not only down, but completely below the knee. Worthless pile of nonsense, so I rang the manufacturers as I assumed I was misusing it, but no, and they were blissfully unaware of it ever being anything other than perfect.
Rang the hospital, and they had me back in within two days to be fair, but the woman on the phone was a world apart from the nurses I met upon going back, they basically said that's how it is, keep hiking it up, keep calm and carry on. So I pushed for the brace i was originally supposed to get, and it still wasn't in stock but they would order it in. I pushed because being immobile isn't an option as I work for myself and the original brace would have been fine for that.
They said it would be here by Wednesday of this week and would phone me, bring me in and fit it. No call and its now Saturday, so Ill start chasing them again on Monday. They assured me they would call me soon as it came in and that would be Wednesday, so lets see when I call if its there. I know where my tenner is on that one.
I realise it's not life and death, it's not childbirth, and I injured myself chasing a ball around but the point holds, I run my own business, and if any part of that malfunctioned as badly and repeatedly as almost every part of this NHS chain I am in, I would be eaten alive by my competitors in probably about as much time as passed since I hurt my knee.
This is not to say I want it auctioned off, privatised, nor is it me uncloaking as a godless ToryI just found it to be a string of bad getting worse this time.
The Tories' long-term plan is working a treat then, unfortunately.I realise it's not life and death, it's not childbirth, and I injured myself chasing a ball around but the point holds, I run my own business, and if any part of that malfunctioned as badly and repeatedly as almost every part of this NHS chain I am in, I would be eaten alive by my competitors in probably about as much time as passed since I hurt my knee.
This is not to say I want it auctioned off, privatised, nor is it me uncloaking as a godless Tory
Here's something a junior doctor friend of mine wrote on Tory treatment of the NHS: https://geosociopolitico.com/2016/03...-on-the-brink/
Defund, make sure things don't work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital... As Noam Chomsky once said: "That's the standard technique of privatisation."
Some further reasons as to why the Tories can't be trusted with the NHS: https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs...ories-with-nhs
But because it's free at the point of use, it ends up costing less overall, because everyone can afford it, and people aren't put off getting preventative medicine by the cost.
In the US, there are still outbreaks of disease because people don't go to the doctor and get it treated before they infect others. There are drug-resistant strains of diseases that have emerged because it's too expensive for people to complete courses of treatment. And that's not to mention the fact that private healthcare providers are also trying to maximise their profits. All of this adds to the overall healthcare burden and the amount people pay overall compared to a single-payer system.
They actually had single payer in Vermont. It collapsed.
Could work in California though. http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/0...floor-lefties/
Last edited by KrisLetang; 22/05/2017 at 9:58 PM.
Yes, single-payer health care requires an increase in taxes. We all know that. But pretty much every other country in the developed world has it. And it works. The US healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world for quality by the WHO, 31st for life expectancy and 48th for infant mortality. And this is in spite of spending the highest amount per capita in the entire world, by quite some margin.
Single-payer healthcare is objectively better. It produces better outcomes at a lower cost. Yes, taxes will have to go up, but when that means that the average person ends up healthier and with more money in their pocket, that's a good thing.
The same WHO that spent 200 Million on Travel last year?
I'm sure you Health Ins is fine. Mine is fine too and not that expensive. Raising Taxes by that much in CAL would be crazy. Taxes are crazy in left wing states like that as it is.I'm glad that works for you. I notice that rich people from around the world often come to the US for treatment. Max Factor in LA, CLE Clinic, Mayo in Minny. NYU Langone down the street from me. They all have their VIP centers. Why would anyone need that? I thought everyone is treated the exact same under socialized medicine? Weird.
I don't think anyone suggested US doesn't have good hospitals. I assume Max Factor got treatment in the US because he has loads of money and can afford to get treatment that ordinary people in any country couldn't afford.
What's that got to do with anything? Their travel budget doesn't have much to do with how good they are at making reports.The same WHO that spent 200 Million on Travel last year?
I don't have health insurance. I don't need it because of the NHS. Whenever I go to a doctor or a hospital, I get treated, free of charge, no questions asked. I earn just above the median income in the UK and have no major chronic conditions, so I can expect to put in more than I take out, but I'm okay with that.I'm sure you Health Ins is fine. Mine is fine too and not that expensive. Raising Taxes by that much in CAL would be crazy. Taxes are crazy in left wing states like that as it is.I'm glad that works for you. I notice that rich people from around the world often come to the US for treatment. Max Factor in LA, CLE Clinic, Mayo in Minny. NYU Langone down the street from me. They all have their VIP centers. Why would anyone need that? I thought everyone is treated the exact same under socialized medicine? Weird.
When you say "taxes are crazy" in Ca, I had a look. The maximum state tax rate is 13%, sales tax is 7.5%, and the bands are set much higher than they are in the UK. Our sales tax is 20% and our income tax for those earning under £43,000 is 20%. And people are okay with that. To most Europeans, American taxes seem insanely low. Countries can, and do, manage with those levels of taxation perfectly well.
As for why the super-rich travel to the USA for certain procedures, I pretty much agree with Charlie. America has great health services. For the rich. I've not been talking about that. For the majority of the population the service is poorer and more expensive per capita than a taxpayer-funded one.
Paying to go private also enables those who can afford it to avoid waiting lists that patients of socialised/universal healthcare will inevitably encounter.
Which is what is happening with Bus Éireann and Irish Rail over here.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Incidentally while reading about Tony Wilson (of Factory Records fame) earlier, I saw this tidbit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Wilson
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Oh it's terribly underfunded. What has happened to you sounds like a fairly classic example of things falling through the cracks in an understaffed and over worked department.Here's mine
Recently my knee popped in a 50/50 indoor soccer match. I felt it pop, not in agony but a pops a pop and I did some knee bends in the dressing room and told the guys to take me off the text list for games for the foreseeable & went home, I knew it was not good.
A&E the next day, described it to the nurse, was referred to a higher up nurse who examined me. Twisted and turned it and nearly brought tears from me, she said it was not ruptured, I repeated I felt it pop and had had a look online and felt my MCR was gone. She said no. Said to give it 4 weeks minimum and not to expect it to be pain free, after that go to a GP if I wasn't coming from it but clearly, she was sure I wouldn't need to.
I pressed her, and got nowhere. She was borderline dismissive.
GP 5 weeks or so later, I get referred for an MRI, wait two more weeks for MRI appt, which when it comes back shows, a ruptured MCR ligament.
Again I wait, two weeks for an appt letter in a hospital in a different town even though the consultant does weekly surgeries in the town I'm in it turns out when I finally see him, another week or more after the letter. They guy decides on a brace and crutches, with a follow up every two weeks for eight weeks followed by physio.
The brace he sent the nurse for isn't in stock so another one is brought, totally different and she warned me it wasn't exactly an award winner. And its worse than useless, I mean no matter how tight I fasten it, within two steps it has fallen not only down, but completely below the knee. Worthless pile of nonsense, so I rang the manufacturers as I assumed I was misusing it, but no, and they were blissfully unaware of it ever being anything other than perfect.
Rang the hospital, and they had me back in within two days to be fair, but the woman on the phone was a world apart from the nurses I met upon going back, they basically said that's how it is, keep hiking it up, keep calm and carry on. So I pushed for the brace i was originally supposed to get, and it still wasn't in stock but they would order it in. I pushed because being immobile isn't an option as I work for myself and the original brace would have been fine for that.
They said it would be here by Wednesday of this week and would phone me, bring me in and fit it. No call and its now Saturday, so Ill start chasing them again on Monday. They assured me they would call me soon as it came in and that would be Wednesday, so lets see when I call if its there. I know where my tenner is on that one.
I realise it's not life and death, it's not childbirth, and I injured myself chasing a ball around but the point holds, I run my own business, and if any part of that malfunctioned as badly and repeatedly as almost every part of this NHS chain I am in, I would be eaten alive by my competitors in probably about as much time as passed since I hurt my knee.
This is not to say I want it auctioned off, privatised, nor is it me uncloaking as a godless Tory
And how much travel did they get for the money? They were dealing with the Ebola outbreak in West Africa and Zika in South America last year, which would make meant flying people and cargo all over the place. Stuff costs money, and moving stuff costs more money.The same WHO that spent 200 Million on Travel last year?
I'm sure you Health Ins is fine. Mine is fine too and not that expensive. Raising Taxes by that much in CAL would be crazy. Taxes are crazy in left wing states like that as it is.I'm glad that works for you. I notice that rich people from around the world often come to the US for treatment. Max Factor in LA, CLE Clinic, Mayo in Minny. NYU Langone down the street from me. They all have their VIP centers. Why would anyone need that? I thought everyone is treated the exact same under socialized medicine? Weird.
And how much tax do you think we pay? The UK takes 34% of GDP in tax. Ireland takes 30%. The USA takes 26% (On average. It varies from state to state obviously)
Healthcare is a fairly rare example of something the government can run more efficiently than the market. It's not like buying a car. Nobody would ever buy a car knowing it would bankrupt them. Nobody who had a choice would ever go to a slightly less reliable cardiologist because he is 20% cheaper. The free market just doesn't with healthcare.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Yeah, if I wanted to privatise a health service I'd steadily cut services too. Tories know what they're doing and guess who'll be first in the line to take up public-private partnerships?
'After Brexit: the UK will need to renegotiate at least 759 treaties': https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-...4-9023f8c0fd2e
[Brexit] poses a formidable and little-understood challenge for Britain’s prime minister after the June 8 election. While Brexit is often cast as an affair between Brussels and London, in practice Britain’s exit will open more than 750 separate time-pressured mini-negotiations worldwide, according to Financial Times research. And there are no obvious shortcuts: even a basic transition after 2019 requires not just EU-UK approval, but the deal-by-deal authorisation of every third country involved.
“The nearest precedent you can think of is a cessation of a country — you are almost starting from scratch,” says Andrew Hood, a former UK government lawyer now at Dechert. “It will be a very difficult, iterative process.”
Another factor is that there is no insurance to administer, as there is in the US, which has a cost. And insurance companies often demand second opinions before agreeing to pay for treatment, which also has a cost.
The UK has fallen to the bottom of the GDP growth-rate league table of advanced economies and has been the worst performer among the G7 this year, along with Italy: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lump-inflation
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