QuoteI think you might well be right there.Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
The plan is the boost the extra sponorship and hopefully bigger crowds and TV revenue would bring would be enough for all 16 teams to be full time.
I think you might well be right there.
Whilst I'm at it, the idea that a single league would mean less European places is also a COMPLETE RED HERRING !!
Each jurisdiction currently has 4 European slots - Champs League, UEFA x 2 and Inter-toto. That's a total of 8 Euro slots shared between the 2.
If there was a single league on this island - in straight-forward numerical terms those 8 slots would get reduced to 4, so yes - there would be less European slots available for the island of Ireland. But in reality it wouldn't change a single thing.
There aren't 8 European slots available to any one team in Ireland - just 1 out of 4 slots, regardless of which league a team plays in. Under an all-island league, every team would still be playing for 1 of 4 European slots. Therefore, teams would NOT be worse off with regards to European entry - they'd be in the same boat they are now, with the same number of chances of European qualification. No-one would be worse off in terms of qualification opportunities.
You could argue that bringing in Northern teams would increase the competition for those 4 Euro slots and make it harder for Southern teams to qualify, and vice-versa. But that arguement could also be used against the change to a 12-team Eircom Premier Division, the 1985 expansion of the League of Ireland, the recent major expansion of the Irish League etc etc. They all increased competition for European slots, either immediately (bigger qualifying division) or in the longer term (a larger number of clubs looking for the same number of slots). And a fear of increased competition is nothing more than an excuse in favour of maintaining the mediocrity of football in Ireland. If our teams were worried about not being the best in Ireland, what chance would we have in Europe....?
European slots are therefore a complete non-issue....
i reckon, UEFA could even be encouraged to throw an extra place in the UEFA cup in in the spirit of the peace process etc. it would certainly be an argument worth making
Mr Roddy is, I think, stirring it a little bit - and that's no harm!
And isn't it nice that the league has a Roddy with brain engaged to counterbalance the other one!
Some rather judicious maths there! Currently there are 16 Premier Division teams in the North and 12 in the South going for 8 places - so of those 28 teams, 28.6% would get European spots (assuming no First Division teams win the Cup).
Under the new system, those 28 teams would still be in the league - whether at Premier or First Division level - and there would now only be four places. So quite clearly, your chances of qualifying for Europe have halved. This is of course assuming that the quality of the two leagues are the same, which is another debate!
Surely, though, the desire to get rid of the FAI is a moot point? The eL was up till recently effectively self-governing until the two bodies merged, so for all the FAI's incompetence, they haven't had much of a hands-on with regard the league in recent years? Or am I reading that wrong?
Last edited by pineapple stu; 22/11/2004 at 10:09 AM.
Jaysus - you'd need Stephen Hawkings to counteract Shawoddy-Roddy...
Read a very interesting article on th e star this sunday about clubs talking about braking away from the el and irish leauges and forming an all ireland leauge, clubs that had disscussions were Cork City, Derry City, Glentoran, Linfield and Shelbourne. They rekon it can go ahead with or without the backing of yhe ifa / fai. its defo worth a read. Prob had the best el coverage of all the sunday papers aswell.
First Division Champions
i'llmove it, some other mod will have to merge it
Whatever it was I am sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?
no need.threads merged
Happily it ain't gonna happen because if there's only 16 teams gonna be involved then the rest aren't gonna come on board. There's 22 league teams here and aren't there three divisions in the North now? None of the clubs who fail to make Jim Roddy's (Ireland's own Peter Ridsdale) cut will support this idea. Have a truly national league by all means but structure it properly. Or is Roddy worries that Derry might get relegated and miss out on his cash-cow then?
The ball is round and has many surprises.
Have thought for ages that an All Ireland league is the only way for football to develop north and south.
Island is too small for 2 pro/semi pro leagues.
Wouldn't agree with a breakaway league though. you have to have promotion and relegation or the whole things will stagnate.
FAI and IFA will have be onside as well or else no UEFA competition places will be available and that would make it a nonrunner and can't see them supporting a league with no relegation.
Fair dues to Roddy though. Derry are in a unique position and he seems to be using it to foster good relations with the big clubs up North and suss out proposals such as this one.
I see Derry played Institute in a friendly a couple of weeks ago, are playing Glentoran tommorrow night and will play Linfield soon as well. The Linfield chairman was at a match in the Brandywell recently to finalise arrangemtns for the friendly.
I'm what? I'm ants at a picnic?
Too right - let's keep 2 relatively weak leagues separate, supporting lots of teams with no fan-base, history, or genuine hopes of progression. Heaven forbid we might have to make the choice between creating a stronger future for football - and, arguably, peace - on this island and weeding out the likes of Harland & Wolf Welders, Monaghan United, Coagh United and Dublin City. Down with this sort of thing....!
Please SadLoser- don't knock Jim Roddy for showing common sense and vision. Anyone with any sense who's involved in football in this island knows an all-island league is our best chance of making football meaningful in Ireland in the face of competition from European football and other sports in Ireland. There's currently FIFTY (50) senior football teams North and South, in a country of only 5.5m people, which is completely absurd. Some teams will have to be shuffled into footballing retirement homes for the greater good of the game on these shores, it's as simple as that.
And given Derry's performances in the second half of this season, and the fact that we finished 6th in the strongest league on the island, I don't think Jim has much to worry about on relegation...)
Not being a bit parochial in your concern for Limerick, are you....?
Kevin - please, please, please could you scan-in a copy of the article and post it up here. I'm dying to read it.
I'll let you sleep with my sister......
SLK, don't you think an all-Ireland league would be better for Limerick?
Given the size of Limerick, a team would almost certainly be represented from there and the increased profile/importance of this league would get the crowds back for a Limerick team, wouldn't it?
So a team that came 22nd of 22 teams gets into an all-Ireland 16 team league?
We're basically talking franchises in all the major population centre so. Not something I would be too keen on.
Well, less than half come from a population of 4million, so the imbalance seems to be coming from the north.There's currently FIFTY (50) senior football teams North and South, in a country of only 5.5m people
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Limerick may not necessarily get into the league straight away, but given that attendances would surely go up on the basis of heightened interest, (I would think), then there is enough of a population there to ensure attendances which would earn the club enough money to get into the top 16.
You're right on both things you say. An all-island league would need to somehow select teams on the basis of footballing acumen, infrastructure and location. There'd be no point having only Dublin or Belfast teams in it, but likewise there'd be no point having a club with no fans in the middle of nowhere (Coagh United) taking the place of a team in a large population centre that therefore has genuine potential (Limerick), but just happens to be performing worse at the moment.
The top 8 or 10 teams would be fairly obvious to all, but beywond that how do you choose ? Without some outrageously complicated play-off series to determine who really are the Top 16 teams in Ireland, I can't see any way of selecting teams that wouldn't involve a degree of subjectivity on what a certain team would add to the new league.
If both leagues had amicably agreed on the first 15 teams and were left to choose between UCD, Dublin City, Bray Wanderers, Limavady United, Coleraine, or Harland & Wolf Welders for the 16th slot, who would you chose and why.....? Or more importantly, who would you NOT chose and why...?
Yes Shels and Cork City both showed the lack of progress being made with their European progress this year.Too right - let's keep 2 relatively weak leagues separate, supporting lots of teams with no fan-base, history, or genuine hopes of progression. Heaven forbid we might have to make the choice between creating a stronger future for football - and, arguably, peace - on this island and weeding out the likes of Harland & Wolf Welders, Monaghan United, Coagh United and Dublin City. Down with this sort of thing....!
Please SadLoser- don't knock Jim Roddy for showing common sense and vision. Anyone with any sense who's involved in football in this island knows an all-island league is our best chance of making football meaningful in Ireland in the face of competition from European football and other sports in Ireland. There's currently FIFTY (50) senior football teams North and South, in a country of only 5.5m people, which is completely absurd. Some teams will have to be shuffled into footballing retirement homes for the greater good of the game on these shores, it's as simple as that.
And given Derry's performances in the second half of this season, and the fact that we finished 6th in the strongest league on the island, I don't think Jim has much to worry about on relegation...
Not being a bit parochial in your concern for Limerick, are you....?The only club in the eircom League who would benefit from this are Derry City because of the reduced cost of transport and travel for them. Where this idea that the armchair brigade would come out overnight to support the eircom League comes from baffles me. There's nothing to suggest that people who are currently giving their local team a miss will get excited about Waterford United Vs Glenavon or whatever. I'm not opposed to the idea as long as it's done properly but to set up one 16 team league will allow the weaker teams to stagnate much like clubs can do now in the eircom League. Kilkenny City and yes, Limerick are two examples of clubs who are just treading water and should have been relegated and replaced years ago. A single 16 team division with no promotion or relegation will only allow the same thing to happen again. Accuse me of looking out for Limerick if you like but Jim Roddy's 'common sense and vision' is designed to encompass the Brandywell and the Brandywell only. If there are other benefits to be shared out that's only a happy coincidence.
I like the idea of an All-Ireland league to be honest but to limit it to 16 teams is a complete non-starter. It makes no sense at all not to have regionalised first divisions underneath this to encourage growth. If a mere 16 teams are represented at a senior level of football in this country what happens to the vast, unrepresented swathes that will be left out? How in God's name will it help football to develop if probably somewhere in the region of 10 towns are going to be present in this new order of things (Dublin & Belfast I presume will have a few clubs)? All this is at the moment is opportunism from the elite and it stinks. Not a bad idea in a general sense but for crying out loud try and bring the rest of us with you to Jim Roddy's promised land of Champions' League victories and international acclaim!
The ball is round and has many surprises.
I agree with that much, regionalised first divisions is the way to go imo, the rest of the idea is a good one.
I asked about a scanner but no luck, hopefully someone else can scan it for you Steve
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