Post Match Shels-Lille discussion

**Shelsman** · 17/09/2004, 12:30 PM

I was at the match last night and I have to say that other than Shels playing poorly for the majority of the game ( thanks to Fenlon's choice of playing 4-5-1 ) that David Crawley in particular was brutal. Every time he went to win the ball, or a Lille player ran at him he was beaten, I haven't seen a fullback beaten so often or badly in years. He has been solid enough up to this in the campaign but I think it's time Shels started looking for some cover in the fullback positions ( they have plenty of cover everywhere else although a out and out right winger would go down well -Bobby Ryan anyone? ). Cork City's Danny Murphy would be an excellent signing for left back.

What a finish to the game though ( I think Williams should have saved the first Lille goal but he made several last gasp saves throughout the game so he was superb other than that one blip ). I was prepared to go home disappointed but we couldn't have asked for a better finish. It just goes to show how much Shels can hurt them if they play two up front. Jason Byrne was excellent in the air but didn't seem to try that hard a lot of the time. Here's hoping that Fenlon will have the cop on to play 4-4-2 from the kick off in the second leg.

To be fair to the French fans, they were the only ones singing for the first 75 minutes, but it was very sweet when Shels hit the second goal when the whole West Stand was chanting 'You're not singing anymore!' to them -they stood there not knowing what to do. Great fans though ( the Frenchies ), they contributed a lot.

Sheridan · 17/09/2004, 12:51 PM

I don't think Shels have quite sussed the difference between eL and European football yet, and their players aren't experienced or intelligent enough to figure it out during the course of a game. For example, Rogers and Harris might get away with dribbling out of defence and playing twenty-yard passes to feet into the centre of midfield at eL level, but against superior opposition in European football, the man receiving possession is simply going to be swamped and robbed, setting up an immediate counter-attack. This happened time and time again last night. I still think Hoolahan is class, but someone needs to take him aside and bang his head against a wall to the accompaniment of the words "DON'T-F*CKING-D*CK-ABOUT-WITH-THE-BALL-IN-YOUR-OWN-HALF-OF-THE-FIELD!" How difficult a concept can this be to grasp? Has no-one told him, or is he just not listening?

Last night proved that, while Shels' first XI are a decent, UEFA Cup-standard side, their bench is woefully shallow. Morgan is not a Premier Division player, let alone a European one. Crawford is a solid midfielder in the domestic game, but hasn't got the extra quality necessary at this level. Cawley looked surprisingly good when he came on, but the absence of Stuart Byrne and Alan Moore was the major factor in Shels' poor performance.

Jason Byrne is, all appearances to the contrary notwithstanding, in woeful form at the moment. He didn't even play that well against us, despite scoring a hat-trick (should have had five or six, scored two tap-ins and scuffed the third.) The frustrating thing is that, as evinced by his superb cross for Fitzpatrick's goal, he IS a technically competent player. If he could up his work-rate a bit, I reckon Fenlon could (sacreligous though this may sound) remould him as an attacking midfielder, withdrawn striker or winger over the coming seaons.

**Slash/ED** · 17/09/2004, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Last night proved that, while Shels' first XI are a decent, UEFA Cup-standard side, their bench is woefully shallow. Morgan is not a Premier Division player, let alone a European one. Crawford is a solid midfielder in the domestic game, but hasn't got the extra quality necessary at this level. Cawley looked surprisingly good when he came on, but the absence of Stuart Byrne and Alan Moore was the major factor in Shels' poor performance.

I agree with that and luckily they should be back for the second leg, barring injuries.

Jason Byrnes finishing has always been erratic but the sign of a good striker is getting the chances, and he's shown that he can get chances from that defence. He was unlucky with a superb header and has some poor finishing but as ever his all round play was good, his cross for Fitzpatrick with his weaker foot was absolutley top drawer. I think if he keeps playing well and keeps getting into the positions the goals will come, hopefully starting in two weeks time. He's an excellent crosser/passer, so he could do a job in mid field or on the wing as you've said, but his best position will always be up front imo. He's a quality player, despite his misses he's actually been one of our better players in Europe this season and has been a threat to every team, he's the only one who looked like scoring against Depor, the goals will hopefully come as soon as he sticks one in.

**pete** · 17/09/2004, 1:43 PM

I watched 1st half & way dire stuff. Thought Morgan pathetic in particular.

Couldn't inflict 2nd half on flatmate so just saw last 15 mins.

IMO Fenlon has been way too cautious in Europe & was lucky to get away with at home to Reykavik & Hadjuk. Better to play 4-4-2 & can drop 1 forward back into midfield when don't have the ball.

Moore & Fenlon also got sent off using poor judgement in la Coruna which almost cost ye dearly.

**Slash/ED** · 17/09/2004, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by pete

IMO Fenlon has been way too cautious in Europe & was lucky to get away with at home to Reykavik & Hadjuk. Better to play 4-4-2 & can drop 1 forward back into midfield when don't have the ball.

That's very very easy to say, but Fenlons tactics have consistently gotten results for us this season. I find it absolutley amazing people can question him after what he's done this season.

**pete** · 17/09/2004, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

That's very very easy to say, but Fenlons tactics have consistently gotten results for us this season. I find it absolutley amazing people can question him after what he's done this season.

I know everyone needs a bit of luck to do well but you must admit Fenlons been using up his fair share...

**Slash/ED** · 17/09/2004, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I know everyone needs a bit of luck to do well but you must admit Fenlons been using up his fair share...

Has he? The two games you mentioned, Reykavik & Hadjuk, Shels fully deserved to win and a fair few chances. If anything he was unlucky away to Depor that we couldn't take our chance when it came and they got a second goal that 9 times out or 10 probably would have sailed over the bar, which killed us off.

Now, we were absolutley blessed yesturday, no doubt about that, and maybe away to Reykavik too (Though I didn't see the game) but I don't think luck has played that much of a part in our run in the champions league anyway, no more than it does in any football match, and I really can't understand anyone having a go at Fenlon.

**drummerboy** · 17/09/2004, 2:28 PM

The biggest disappointment to me was the performance of Wes Houlihan. He made the dreadful mistake of being caught in possession in his own half against Deportivo away. It cost Shels the first goal. But an even bigges mistake was letting it happen again. Over and over again in the first half especially, Wes failed to release the ball and got caught in possession. People have been calling on Brian Kerr to select Wes and Jason Byrne but its obvious these guys are excellent EL players but when it comes to the cut and trust of European and international football, they just don't hack it.

**Slash/ED** · 17/09/2004, 2:37 PM

They're the key places in a team that has certinaly been 'hacking it' in Europe this season, they are, along with heary, well worth at least a chance in a friendly for Ireland.

**tiktok** · 17/09/2004, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

That's very very easy to say, but Fenlons tactics have consistently gotten results for us this season. I find it absolutley amazing people can question him after what he's done this season.

in fairness, sladh/eds right, no shame in being unbeaten at home with just away losses to Hadjuk Split and Deportivo

Sheridan · 17/09/2004, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by drummerboy

People have been calling on Brian Kerr to select Wes and Jason Byrne but its obvious these guys are excellent EL players but when it comes to the cut and trust of European and international football, they just don't hack it.

Bit of a leap there, chief. Possibly correct about Byrne (although players in worse form with only a decent scoring record in poor domestic leagues to pad their reputations have been given endless opportunities to prove how sh*t they are at international level, ARE YOU WATCHING, DAVID CONNOLLY?) but Hoolahan will play for Ireland. He just needs his head screwed on. The same applies to several of his team-mates.

I'm positive Glen Fitzpatrick (and possibly Alan Moore, and certainly Glen Crowe) has scored more goals in European competition than the entire Irish XI that played against Cyprus, and against decent opposition too. When was the last time an Irish striker scored two goals in a European match?

**The Sheliban** · 17/09/2004, 5:54 PM

In defence of Wes, the pitch was narrowed, and we played 5 across midfield, which tended to make Wes's area very cluttered. How many times did he get the ball and had nobody to pass to, and so had to try to beat a man himself. Personally I don't like to criticise him too much for losing possession. With Wes, you need to accept the rough with the smooth.
So long, of course, that he doesn't give the ball away in critical areas. Depor's first goal was laid squarely at his door, and he accepted full responsibility for it, but if you ever see it again, Harris could have got to Victor long before he shot, but backed away for 2 seconds when the initial mistake was made.
Agree with Sheridan, Jason's in shocking form of late, though to be fair to him, he's getting into the right positions.
Bit bemused to read all the negative comments about this player's no good, and that players no good. You'd think we'd be battling it out with Home Farm with all the donkeys in our team!

**eoinh** · 17/09/2004, 8:52 PM

Things that make you go hmmm

**Shelsman** · 20/09/2004, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

That's very very easy to say, but Fenlons tactics have consistently gotten results for us this season. I find it absolutley amazing people can question him after what he's done this season.

I understand where you're coming from and I agree but only up to a point. I think that people are critical because they ( and I ) feel that Shels could have done better in their overall play -particularly against Lille, and I attribute that to Fenlon playing 4-5-1 as this just surrendered possesion and the initiative to Lille for the first 75 minutes. Lille put all the Shels players under pressure when Shels had the ball and if Shels cleared the ball it was 5 against 1 ( Jason Byrne ) to win the ball back, and even if he did win it there was nobody to head the ball down to. The difference when Shels had two up front was startling.

**Slash/ED** · 20/09/2004, 4:30 PM

I don't blame him playing 4-5-1, it's easy to say he got it wrong now but the fact is it has worked in Europe for us this season. We made history beating Split with it and held Deportivo, a world class side, for 150 minutes with it. Fitzpatrick came on and was fresh against a tiring defence and scored twice, there's no gaurentee he would have scored at all if he started. Like I said, it's easy to pick faults, but the fact is his tactics have been spot on and they've gotten results. Unbeaten at home in our four european games this season ffs and on a run that's setting records for an Irish side.

**Shelsman** · 21/09/2004, 12:42 PM

Maybe you're right, maybe not -there's no way of telling...........except if he tries 4-4-2 from the start!

4-5-1 certainly makes for a dreadful spectacle, however I'd take the results first in Europe.