Going by laws of the game: did Mannus score an own goal against Derry?

**legendz** · 09/07/2011, 9:21 AM

The Derry goal last night came from an indirect free-kick taken by Lafferty. As it was an indirect free-kick, surely Lafferty was the only player on the field of play who could not score a goal at that time. As the ball did wind up in the net having touched Mannus, surely it was a Mannus own goal? To register it as a Lafferty goal would surely mean the one player who could not score from an indirect free-kick had scored, which surely cannot happen?

**Dillonman** · 09/07/2011, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

The Derry goal last night came from an indirect free-kick taken by Lafferty. As it was an indirect free-kick, surely Lafferty was the only player on the field of play who could not score a goal at that time. As the ball did wind up in the net having touched Mannus, surely it was a Mannus own goal? To register it as a Lafferty goal would surely mean the one player who could not score from an indirect free-kick had scored, which surely cannot happen?

If it was indirect why did he shoot?

**SwanVsDalton** · 09/07/2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Dillonman

If it was indirect why did he shoot?

Think Lafferty didn't know it was indirect, maybe misread the referee. Or maybe he intended Mannus to make a hames of it.

**outspoken** · 09/07/2011, 11:43 AM

Lafferty knew it was a indirect free kick im sure i think he just took a gamble that it would touch someone on the way in ad yes i agree it should go down as an og.

**legendz** · 09/07/2011, 11:45 AM

I thought the idea was to float it in and for someone to get a flick header to it?

In the Indo it says: "Ironically, the free had been indirect anyway so had he not touched it the goal wouldn't have counted." Surely as a result, the goal was an own goal? The touch from Mannus is the only reason the goal stood??

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Think Lafferty didn't know it was indirect, maybe misread the referee. Or maybe he intended Mannus to make a hames of it.

I was watching some bits again last night on the RTÉ Player and I can't see how Lafferty wouldn't have known, so I don't know what he was actually thinking with taking the shot in the first place, ha. After the referee gave an indirect free-kick for obstruction, he held his hand in the air for the duration of the build-up (signalling it was indirect) until he actually blew his whistle to signal it was OK to take it. He's also seen explaining that the free-kick is indirect to the two or three Derry players standing around the ball until he measures the distance back for the wall. By then, only Lafferty is standing anywhere near the ball, strangely showing intentions to take a kick at goal, so the players in the Rovers wall were sleeping in my book. They'd have been better without a wall given there was no indication that any side-pass was imminent.

Or could we just sum all of that up as a stroke of genius?

By the way, I don't think the second of Doherty's quick-fire double saves went over the line either, although the camera angles weren't much good for providing a definitive answer.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

I thought the idea was to float it in and for someone to get a flick header to it?

In the Indo it says: "Ironically, the free had been indirect anyway so had he not touched it the goal wouldn't have counted." Surely as a result, the goal was an own goal? The touch from Mannus is the only reason the goal stood??

Has it been officially registered as Lafferty's goal? It is an interesting one.

**bluewhitearmy** · 09/07/2011, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by outspoken

Lafferty knew it was a indirect free kick im sure i think he just took a gamble that it would touch someone on the way in ad yes i agree it should go down as an og.

That would make no sense imo.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 11:54 AM

From page 36 of the 2010-11 FIFA Laws of the Game:

The indirect free kick

Signal
The referee indicates an indirect free kick by raising his arm above his head. He maintains his arm in that position until the kick has been taken and the ball has touched another player or goes out of play.

Ball enters the goal
A goal can be scored only if the ball subsequently touches another player before it enters the goal:

• if an indirect free kick is kicked directly into the opponents’ goal, a goal kick is awarded
• if an indirect free kick is kicked directly into the team’s own goal, a corner kick is awarded to the opposing team

Not sure if there's any indication who should be granted the goal though or if an own-goal should be designated.

**outspoken** · 09/07/2011, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy

That would make no sense imo.

Why not? I am a referee myself and on many occasions I have seen players just smash it when its an indirect free-kick hoping it will get a touch some where along the line and a lot of the time it works

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 12:00 PM

Just watching it again and the ref holds his arm in the air the whole time until he just ends up out of vision before Mannus makes a hames of it. Was definitely an indirect free-kick and a perfectly fine goal, whatever about who ought to be awarded it.

**A N Mouse** · 09/07/2011, 12:00 PM

I don't think the laws of the game deal with who gets credited for scoring - on motd lawro is fond of citing the 'dubious goals committee', and while I'm not sure such a thing exists there is some kind of process for official statistics.

The standard seems to be that a shot on target is credited to whoever took the the shot unless a 'significant' deflection takes place. Now usually that means the deflection had a significant impact on the trajectory of the ball. So if Lafferty's free had been direct then it's definitely his goal.

However given it was an indirect free Mannus' touch was 'significant', in that the goal couldn't have stood without it. So I think you're correct it that it should go down as an og.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by outspoken

Why not? I am a referee myself and on many occasions I have seen players just smash it when its an indirect free-kick hoping it will get a touch some where along the line and a lot of the time it works

It'd make sense to me. It's a good idea. The instinctive reaction of a goalkeeper or defender is to touch it.

**Dillonman** · 09/07/2011, 1:16 PM

[QUOTE=legendz;1506822]I thought the idea was to float it in and for someone to get a flick header to it?

In the Indo it says: "Ironically, the free had been indirect anyway so had he not touched it the goal wouldn't have counted." Surely as a result, the goal was an own goal? The touch from Mannus is the only reason the goal stood??[/QUOTE]

Its the Airtricity League refs, off course it would have stood, Hancock would prob have allowed it.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/07/2011, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dillonman

Its the Airtricity League refs, off course it would have stood, Hancock would prob have allowed it.

He wouldn't have. He was clearly alert to what was going on as he held his arm in the air until Mannus had touched the ball. It was commendable refereeing that demonstrated awareness.

**bluewhitearmy** · 09/07/2011, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by outspoken

Why not? I am a referee myself and on many occasions I have seen players just smash it when its an indirect free-kick hoping it will get a touch some where along the line and a lot of the time it works

Beacuse if he was hoping for that he would have put it where the biggest crowd of players was surely?
He didnt do that.

**nigel-harps1954** · 09/07/2011, 3:13 PM

I didn't see the goal but generally wouldn't it have to be going off target for it to be credited as a Mannus own goal? He would have to have directed it into the goal from the shot going off target. If it was going on target and hit Mannus, then its a Lafferty goal but if going off target and hit Mannus, then its a Mannus OG.

**legendz** · 09/07/2011, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I didn't see the goal but generally wouldn't it have to be going off target for it to be credited as a Mannus own goal? He would have to have directed it into the goal from the shot going off target. If it was going on target and hit Mannus, then its a Lafferty goal but if going off target and hit Mannus, then its a Mannus OG.

2002: Peter Enckelman, then goalkeeper for Aston Villa, scored an own goal during a Birmingham derby in 2002 after miskicking a throw-in from Olof Mellberg. If he had not touched the ball, a goal could not have been given straight from a throw-in. It was his touch which had the ball active and it's why it was his OG.

Lafferty as taker of the indirect free-kick last night was the one player who could not score from kicking the ball. Mannus' touch made the ball active in play so it is surely his OG, being on target or not. If Mannus hadn't touched the ball, they'd have been given a goal-kick. Surely it is his OG?

**Mr A** · 09/07/2011, 3:37 PM

Clearly an OG I think.

Mind you I remember St Pats scoring from an indirect free kick against us at Finn Park.. I think our keeper even let it go in rather than risk the sort of thing that happened Mannus.. but then the ref went ahead and awarded. Probably the single worst piece of reffing I've ever seen.

**legendz** · 09/07/2011, 3:44 PM

Wasn't a replay ordered once by FIFA, something to do with a technicality due to an indirect free-kick being awarded instead of a penalty being retaken in a WC qualifier? Harps would've had a case after that terrible piece of reffing.