I do, yes. You said that you didn't particularly care whether a move away from GSTQ would make for a more broadly representative team. Glad that you would like to extend the support base. It makes sense.
Who said anything about representing the Portuguese or Latvians? I would argue that the IFA has a duty to try to represent as many people from the region as is possible, especially those who are eligible to play for them - i.e. people actually from NI rather than foreign nationals such as Portuguese or Latvians.
If that is the case, I must presume that, if the IFA is serious, they will move away from GSTQ. However, it's telling that as we approach 2012, the IFA has not acted on previous recommendations to move away. Maybe it's a case of the rock and that hard place.
You miss the point. Judging by the precedent of the CAS case and constant moaning through the channels in the media, the IFA cares about these type of people when they opt not to play for them and make attempts to encourage these people to play for them. Why shouldn't they carry this attitude over to supporters?
That's fair enough. As I've said, I don't think that current IFA fans should be prohibited from having a say, merely that other groups should be consulted. This idea that only current fans should have a say makes no sense to me.
Great, that's what I've been saying.
Thanks for the rundown of poll mechanics. I thought that you meant "filtered" in the sense that potential-fans should be filtered out.
How do you discern whether someone is unlikely to become a NI fan?
Roundabout indeed, but I believe the onus is on the IFA, considering that they are the self instated governors of the game for the public that rely heavily on public support through grassroots contributions, public handouts etc.
If commissioning sociological research is something they must do in their own interests, I'm sure it could be done.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
The reference to political interference is a hysterical red herring and does not apply to what Predator has written.
NB, you are running into dodgy areas of discussion when you quote a FIFA rule to support your argument
FIFA definition "political interference is when a government tries to take direct control"
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/news/n...544/index.html
The government sports body is quite entitled to hold back public money from the IFA or FAI, if it observes that the agreed criteria for receiving grants is not being followed. The sports body is not directly interfering in the internal mechanisms of the association and that does not fall under political interference.
If the government wants to fund a revamp of a stadium, the association has to follow accepted standards in application, planning, design and estimates, in order to benefit from the sports grant.
If the IFA has a constituted policy to exclude women in football from a fair and equitable recipient of grants, the sports body has the right to withdraw public funds until that gender discrimination policy has changed.
So on and so forth.
You are now demonstrating confusion on the matter by inventing a scenario, when you transform 'political bluster' to a political direct threat/blackmail.
Political bluster, as most of us are aware, is noise without intent.
A threat is a statement of intent.
And even if that unlikely threat was made by your political master (to withhold public funds unless the pre-match anthem was changed) it still would not equate to the FIFA definition of political interference "political interference is when a government tries to take direct control".
Indeed.
And, back to my original point - politicians of whatever hue can bluster all they like on the issue of the IFA's choice of Anthem, however, it will be the IFA alone who make the decision on the Anthem.
The IFA are obligated to "manage their affairs independently and ensure that their own affairs are not influenced by any third parties".
The Anthem of the IFA representative sides is the business of the IFA.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I think you understand now that is a separate point, to equating what Predator stated with the FIFA definition of political interference.
I agree with your main point, however politicians/pundits/journalists/ morons/imbeciles/drunkards/fans/half fans/non fans/ordinary people, all will express an opinion on the matter. That is the nature of life. It is up to the IFA to make the decision.
The IFA have demonstrated that they can manage with ease to avoid digesting sane advice from external sources. I will excitedly await the outcome of the coming together of the great minds of the IFA committee, after being locked in intense discussion for days over the football anthem issue.
Where did I say or imply that (direct quote, please)? I've made repeatedly clear my preference toOriginally Posted by Predator
a) change the anthem from GSTQ, replacing with something distinct to NI and likely to get broad acceptance there
b) as a result and combined with other initiatives (FFA etc.), to increase the supporter base (or make it more broadly representative, as you might put it)
c) accept the reality that RoI fans in NI aren't likely to change their allegiance even if they become more accepting of the NI side.
That duty needn't include an initiative to canvass the views of non fans on an issue which is relevant to fans.I would argue that the IFA has a duty to try to represent as many people from the region as is possible, especially those who are eligible to play for them
Why do you presume that? They're more likely to act according to the wishes of their main constituency (which clearly for the purposes of this issue means fans of the NI side and probably not local clubs whose members don't support NI because they identify with the South). Which is why I agree NB's suggestion of a block-booker poll. If that shows 75% for GSTQ, there's no point changing; if 50%+1, it's game on.I must presume that, if the IFA is serious, they will move away from GSTQ. However, it's telling that as we approach 2012, the IFA has not acted on previous recommendations to move away. Maybe it's a case of the rock and that hard place
No, I understood it quite well thanks. As I've said repeatedly here, going to the CAS was foolish not just because of the cost and inevitable defeat, but as it was vindictive. I wouldn't condemn players from NI who choose to play for the South; it would just be better if they hadn't amassed numerous adult NI caps first. In those circumstances, it's reasonable for the IFA to try to persuade them not to move. Anyone who emigrated before doing that, fine, bye-bye.You miss the point. Judging by the precedent of the CAS case and constant moaning through the channels in the media, the IFA cares about these type of people when they opt not to play for them and make attempts to encourage these people to play for them
The attitude- if I understand you point properly- that simply growing up in NI means you should support the local side- isn't realistic. 42% of the population, and by association of football fans, identify with another country. Of course the IFA should treat all its member clubs, players etc. inclusively, but canvassing them about the NI side in the same way as its committed fans is largely pointless.Why shouldn't they carry this attitude over to supporters?
How very generous of you!As I've said, I don't think that current IFA fans should be prohibited from having a say
I explained it in some detail above, but if you don't accept that fine. I'll not press the point.This idea that only current fans should have a say makes no sense to me
Their already being a RoI fan is probably the most obvious test.How do you discern whether someone is unlikely to become a NI fan?
Strictly speaking they're the democratically elected local authority for the game. The onus on them is to act in their members' wishes. Not all those members will regard issues around the NI side as relevant to them (largely becuae they identify with the RoI). And- as NB and I explained in our reply to you above- the receipt of public money doesn't make them accountable to the entire electorate in the way a government department is.I believe the onus is on the IFA, considering that they are the self instated governors of the game for the public that rely heavily on public support through grassroots contributions, public handouts etc
The usual guff & waffle from GR there. Am unsure why he bothers. Though based on past experience those views would never be tolerated on OWB.
Doubtless he's never tried to put up similar on there!
Hmm, would have thought you'd have had a better grasp of reality on this?
Can't see any decision being reached without political input, no matter how 'undesirable' this seems. In fact certain unionists are likely to implode at the thought!
Well yes. But how do we know if any of those players didn't have a previous "boyhood dream" of playing for Eng. or Scotland, before the North hoovered them up??
Or come to think of it, Germany, Zambia or Norway to name but three...
Never mind me, though perhaps you should consider why there is such antipathy towards a small sub-team?
Especially when many Irish football fans of a certain age had a soft spot for the North which has long since ended.
Despite unlike me, having no connection to the place. Nor ever likely to.
Unionist politicians can "implode" all they like on the issue (most of whom don't attend Northern Ireland matches).
As I said, for fear of repeating myself, politicians of whatever hue can bluster all they like - the IFA will make the decision of Anthem, not politicians.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Getting a bit tired of the GSTQ debate, so I thought I would throw a hand grenade in. Any chance of pinching this 19 year old?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-Donnelly.html
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Don't think he has played competitively for the North at u21 level but was included in a recent squad. He may be ineligibile for our current u21 campaign so better if he continues to get experience with the North before he makes the step-up.
I think that stops him from playing competitively with our u21 until the current qualification/ competition ends.
Bookmarks