QuoteNot according to Rather Rotund...
That's rather presumptive.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I think it would be very close between the retainers and changers.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Not according to Rather Rotund...
"the lack of AnbF outside the Republic is irrelevant"
So it would make no difference to those NI unionist RU fans that you know, if the IRFU used AnbF along with Ireland's Call, for the away game anthems?
That the issue is more with Ireland's Call not being a specific sport anthem for NI? or just use Ireland's Call exclusively home and away?
Last edited by geysir; 03/12/2011 at 12:04 PM.
I think the whole GSTQ debate is a non issue. It doesn't make a button of difference to me what song they play, they can change it to "Shiny Happy People" for all I care, really think it will have a neglible effect on changing the minds of ROI fans.
Anthems are only symbolic, they are only superficial. Identity runs much deeper and I think supporting NI is the anathema of what Irish identity is.
NI fans are excercising their Britishness by playing GSTQ, and fair play to them, Irish men from the 32 counties are excercising their Irishness by playing for Ireland. That's the beauty of freedom of expression.
That'll depend on how you define "Irish identity".
I'm proud of my "Irish identity", and am happy to express it through support for the Irish Football Association's representative team.
The emerald green shirts, the celtic cross, and the shamrocks have a nice Irish feel to them too.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Genuinely moronic.
As opposed to being actually pompous...
Not to mention hypocritical.
PS.How can being factually correct, be 'moronic' ??
Methinks you need to check the facts. In anything it's understating those.
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 03/12/2011 at 9:33 PM.
I see. You don't care if the NI team becomes more broadly representative of the people of NI. Is a national team supposed to be representative of its fans only, or the football fans of the nation/region/statelet it is named after? In a place like NI, you'd think the IFA would attempt to bridge division, rather than reaffirm it.
The IFA cares about those who wanted a United Ireland yesterday when they decide to leave NI for a team more representative of them. As the governing body for football in Northern Ireland, they have a duty to all football fans/players in the area, not just those who are content with the status quo. It's a very insular attitude to suggest that the IFA should effectively only care what unionists think.
That's no reason to dismiss the idea of attempting to be much more inclusive and as alluded to, more broadly representative.
Why would opinion polls need to be filtered? Sounds odd to me. How about conducting a poll of, say representatives from the various football teams under the auspices of the IFA? Would their opinions be as valid to the IFA as that of NI fans? If not, why not? What about the players who actually play for NI, is the team supposed to be representative of them too?
I don't say that the IFA shouldn't listen to current fans - of course they should - I just think they should attempt to reach out to the entirety of NI, including the "irredeemably biased", if they're ever to be taken even a wee bit seriously by that section of society. Surely that's what the IFA want? They don't want to play second fiddle to the FAI.
As I said I don't suggest prohibiting the IFA fans. What most football fans think is very much of value to the IFA. These are the people the IFA relies on, for players, grassroots support, etc.. To suggest that only current NI fans should have a say is remarkably blinkered.
I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to expect those who govern the game in NI to attempt to be inclusive of as many football fans in NI as they can.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Fair play Predator, but is it really worth generating the highly likely tedious response??
I'd say that GR is just being realistic.
That's a little facetious.
Why would the IFA consult those who do not form part of its support base?
Whilst I would disagree that the GSTQ debate is a complete non-issue, I entirely agree with your second point.
One of the more ridiculous arguments offered against the proposition for change on OWC was that "it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to those who already support the Republic (or 'beggars' - to use OWC terminology), so what's the point?".....or words to that effect.
Answer - It's to try and secure more support from future generations of football fans in NI.
So, so stupid! (but then you do have to remember that many of them truly believed that the FIFA eligibility rules worked in their favour)
Last edited by The Fly; 03/12/2011 at 10:33 PM.
But what about 'Football For all' ?? Isn't it supposed to appeal to the whole populace?
Any anthem change should reflect the whole of the Six Counties, especially the indigenous population...
Football For All is basically a community relations project, whose mission statement is as follows:
"...the Football For All Project, which is managed by the Irish FA Community Relations Department, aims to create a fun, safe and inclusive culture throughout all levels of Football.
Football For All is committed to tackling both sectarianism and racism. The guiding principles of Football For All are Education, Support and Communication.
The Football For All team is currently working with a wealth of partners in the community, using the universal power of Football, to promote Good Relations."
It's overall aim then is to provide the part emboldened above, by undertaking the work outlined in points 2 and 3.
If that leads to more people supporting the NI side, then that's an added bonus.
By indigenous you mean.....nationalists?
It's hard to find anything that reflects the whole of the Six Counties. Aside from a new composition, the only song that could possibly do it is Danny Boy, but even then imagine the arguments over whether it's the Derry Air (arse), or Londonderry Air? Only in NI, I suppose.
Last edited by The Fly; 03/12/2011 at 10:38 PM.
Apartheid-enabler?
In seriousness though, I think it's fair enough that the IFA cater for their own fans/players only. How would a player poll sound? They're the ones who have to stand to attention after all. My personal Irish identity (and that of the wider nationalist community) and the concept of supporting NI as my/our representative national football team are inherently incompatible. Just like I've said with regard to changing their anthem to something purporting to be broadly representative of both the unionist and nationalist communities making no difference to me, they could change the anthem to 'Rule Britannia' and I wouldn't see any reason to be offended by it, no matter how puzzling and misguided it might seem. As French Toasht highlights, as important as symbolism is to people, it's still only superficial in the sense that identity cuts much deeper. There are possibly some from a nationalist background who might be turned off by the current overtly British symbolism surrounding the IFA team and would play for NI otherwise, but, generally, I just don't think it's any of our concern, to be honest. It's not bitterness or anything as I'm not one to wish NI any ill will. Well, some of the time anyway.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 03/12/2011 at 10:41 PM.
Me thinks he doesn't know that Gather Round and yourself know each other.As opposed to being actually pompous...
Not to mention hypocritical.
PS.How can being factually correct, be 'moronic' ??
Methinks you need to check the facts. In anything it's understating those.
Or, perhaps he does know and just thinks you're moronic....which is equally possible.
I'm not sure if you're serious Fly, but you've answered your own question. Their prospective support base should encompass the entire football loving population, but it doesn't, for various reasons and it seems obvious to me that it is in the IFA's interests to be as inclusive as possible. I could be wrong of course.
Listening to Armstrong talk on the radio, he's stated that it is one of the things that has come up among players, even though he said he personally had/has no problem with God Save the Queen. Why would he bother running with the idea at all? Unless he's some kind of lose cannon, which seems possible.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Aye. But latter is a little harsh, unless of course he includes the 'Great Round One'...
As trust me, is nowhere as 'liberal' as he likes to appear. Though the sad thing is probably still a relative 'moderate'!
I am serious. The IFA is not a ministry of the NI Assembly; it doesn't have a public remit.
They do no not need to consult you or I because the answer in the first instance is fairly obvious, and will not lead to you or I supporting them.
I suspect that they already know that anyway because.....well.....the dogs in the street know it. Just like I also suspect that they know a change of anthem could only increase their support base in the long term, if only marginally so. But, I also suspect that many of them are afraid to make that leap and/or don't believe that the short to medium term hassle, and possible loss of support, is worth it.
If, on the other hand, the IFA and the majority of Northern Ireland supporters do not realize that a change of anthem could secure them more support from future generations of football fans in NI then they are well and truly thick. Though I suspect that's not entirely the case, don't you?
Why the IFA felt the need to pay Gerry Armstrong to go on some sort of fact finding mission is beyond me. I would've gladly offered my services for free, and all it would've taken was a 2 minute phone call.
You think that the IFA may be flying a kite with Gerry?
Are the IFA capable of such thinking? Anything's possible.
Though keep in mind that this is the organisation that kept pressing FIFA to enforce their rules on player eligibility, and then, dissatisfied with the response and in a masochistic state of mind, took their case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport using the same strategy as before.
Hmmm.....maybe the whole player eligibility debacle was a gigantic ruse aimed at achieving a change of anthem!!!
Last edited by The Fly; 04/12/2011 at 11:10 AM.
Last edited by The Fly; 04/12/2011 at 2:13 AM.
You'd have 'worked' for The IFA, Fly??
Though your point about the ruse could even have a grain of truth...
I agree with other posters here that this talk about a change of anthem is a superficial attempt to highlight the issues of players looking South. The issues between both communities are such that such a step would mean basically nothing. NB's comment of a few pages ago that essentially he would be supporting the other three teams in Ireland's group shows the feeling among Unionist supporters. They dislike everything we stand for and as another poster mentioned he is quite moderate in his views. Therefore, for many Nationalists such views alienate them and no amount of bu##s##t PR activity will change centuries long mistrust.
The peace walls which separate communities would have to come down before I would believe real progress had been made in NI. Maybe 'We are Family' by Sister Sledge might be appropriate, but it will take centuries for real reconciliation to occur. Until then, many young NI players will continue to look South for acknowledgement and acceptance.
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