Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Paddy Garcia]

Getting a bit tired of the GSTQ debate, so I thought I would throw a hand grenade in. Any chance of pinching this 19 year old?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-Donnelly.html

Liverpool also now interested.

[Predator]

Where did I say or imply that (direct quote, please)?

In response to CD who asked if you wanted to gauge whether a move away from GSTQ would make for a more broadly representative team, you said:
"I don't, actually. More important to gauge what NI fans actually think on the issue, and as a result to make the anthem (or whatever) more representative of them."
So, as I understood that, you don't particularly care if it becomes more broadly representative of all football fans from the region, merely that it becomes more representative of current NI fans.
However, I accept that you're being realistic; I just think that it is in the IFA's interests to "reach out", as it were. After all, what do they realistically stand to lose by doing so? Not as much as they did by dragging Daniel Kearns to Switzerland on the stubborn belief that FIFA were wrong, anyway.

[Predator]

FAO NB/GR
When one considers the charge of creating a "football apartheid" directed at the FAI by the AONISC, it strikes me as very odd that it goes largely unchallenged. While obviously ignorantly sensationalist and guided by seething rage, it is a very grave charge indeed, but it makes the AONISC look very amateur.
What is your personal stance on this charge? If either of you happen to be members, have you challenged its ludicrous nature?

Impertinence or just a small polite dose of nordie bluster?

There's nothing polite about "nordie bluster". There's always an ominous edge.

He's not your's or anyone else's in international terms. However he is ours. Don't worry though, he will be well advised.

Will he be asking Liam Boyce for advice?

[Gather round]

So, as I understood that, you don't particularly care if it becomes more broadly representative of all football fans from the region, merely that it becomes more representative of current NI fans

Both are important; one is more important and a priority than the other, in my opinion.

However, I accept that you're being realistic; I just think that it is in the IFA's interests to "reach out", as it were. After all, what do they realistically stand to lose by doing so?

The cost of a wider survey confirming predictable responses by non-fans (which cost could have been spent on a more comprehensive survey of existing fans).

Of course I take your point about the wider 'market', but in the particular circumtances of NI footbal supporting it's not comparable to Coke advertising in a country where only Pepsi sells, or whatever.

Not as much as they did by dragging Daniel Kearns to Switzerland on the stubborn belief that FIFA were wrong, anyway

Right, with you now. They spunked thousands on a pointless court case, ergo they should waste future sums on something else as long as it costs less than the first bill.

FAO NB/GR
When one considers the charge of creating a "football apartheid" directed at the FAI by the AONISC, it strikes me as very odd that it goes largely unchallenged. While obviously ignorantly sensationalist and guided by seething rage, it is a very grave charge indeed, but it makes the AONISC look very amateur. What is your personal stance on this charge? If either of you happen to be members, have you challenged its ludicrous nature?

I criticised references to 'apartheid' from the start, both on message boards (here, OWC, WSC) and to the AONISC direct. I'm a member of the London NISC. The comparison with systematic discrimnation in South Africa was foolish, in my opinion. And- as you know- I've no problem per se with footballers or anyone else from NI identifying with a different country.

But let's not get carried away. It's not really a grave charge. It's not suggesting that the FAI lock up darkies on the equivalent of Robben Island (Ireland's Eye?). Think of it more a rhetorical flourish that got carried away.

[Not Brazil]

NB; is your regional (?) sense of Irishness compatible with an exclusive and non-British Irish identity as a national one? I'm still trying to get to grips with it.

I don't think "regional" defines my Irishness, which is not "a sense of..." - it's a fact.

"We add to the glory of being British, the distinction of being Irish" - to quote David Trimble, paraphrasing Emerson Tennant.

As John Hewitt wrote:

"I am a Belfast man, I am an Ulster man, I am British and I am Irish, and those last two are interchangeable, and I am European and anyone who demeans any one part of me demeans me as a person".

[Not Brazil]

I'd have thought support for NI, rather than an absence of such, might be viewed or interpreted as an outward expression of support for (or at least contentment with) partition/the status quo.

Certainly the basis of a very interesting discussion, and I understand your take on it.

However, my understanding is that Irish Nationalists wish to see the island of Ireland "united".

On that basis, I'd have thought that true Irish Nationalists would abide with a desire "to cherish all the children of the nation".

Does that mean that Irish Nationals will only cherish me if I forego my British & Irish identity? - something that Irish Nationalists need to come to terms with, regardless of the Constitutional position on the island. Even in the event of a singular State on the island, British identity, expressed by Citizenship etc, will continue for generations of people born on the island - as per the Good Friday Agreement.

Can Irish Nationalists not embrace my Britishness, whilst celebrating my Irishness?

I thought Irish Nationalists would at least have a soft spot for all people of the island of Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

FAO NB/GR
When one considers the charge of creating a "football apartheid" directed at the FAI by the AONISC, it strikes me as very odd that it goes largely unchallenged. While obviously ignorantly sensationalist and guided by seething rage, it is a very grave charge indeed, but it makes the AONISC look very amateur.
What is your personal stance on this charge? If either of you happen to be members, have you challenged its ludicrous nature?

The word "apartheid" is very emotive.

Many see the current situation as seperating Nationalists from Non Nationalists - I don't know of any Northern Ireland supporter who wishes to see the Northern Ireland team consist solely of Unionists.

This poses a problem for some Northern Ireland fans - how do they circle their deep desire to have a cross community team with a desire to emphasize their "British identity"?

I am a member of a SC which is in the AONISC - I am no longer actively involved in the work of the Amalgamation, having previously served on the Committee.

I understand the frustration of the AONISC, but personally would have held different views on "the eligibility issue" to the "decision makers".

I do think they are coming round to reality, and what they are now seeking is fair and just - dropping the emotive language might help their case.

The frustrating thing for me was that I firmly believed a good starting part for the IFA on the eligibility issue would be to understand the FIFA Statutes - I recall being a minority voice at a meeting with Senior IFA Officials when I dared to suggest that they were misunderstood regarding the Statutes, in the context of Irish Citizenship laws, as led down in the Constitution Of Ireland.

What followed, sadly, was a PR disaster for the IFA.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except there's rather a lot of people on the island who see themselves as entirely British & don't acknowledge any 'Irishness' at all...

This and their consistent paranoia about those who are Irish makes them pretty unlovable.

[Not Brazil]

Except there's rather a lot of people on the island who see themselves as entirely British & don't acknowledge any 'Irishness' at all...

As is their right.

I'm saddened by those that have surrendered their "Irishness" to those who hold a myopic view of what constitutes "Irishness".

[ifk101]

This poses a problem for some Northern Ireland fans - how do they circle their deep desire to have a cross community team with a desire to emphasize their "British identity"?

Oh dear, that should be emphasise your British identity.

[Not Brazil]

Oh dear, that should be emphasise your British identity.

Thanks for that meaningful interjection.

[ifk101]

Thanks for that meaningful interjection.

Apologies. Just thought it was amusing that you'd use what commonly perceived as an US spelling of a word to highlight your British identity.

[Not Brazil]

Apologies. Just thought it was amusing that you'd use what commonly perceived as an US spelling of a word to highlight your British identity.

My spellchecker has obviously denounced it's British identity.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'm saddened by those that have surrendered their "Irishness" to those who hold a myopic view of what constitutes "Irishness".

Happy to stand corrected but reckon the former are more than happy to oblige the latter.
The one thing they'd actually agree on is that one group are exclusively Brit(ish) and the other Irish.

[French Toasht]

I must say I agree with NB and Gather Round on this one. Let the NI fans that attend games decide on the anthem.

Why are the Irish fans even interested in what anthem is played by another international team? In my opinion the NI team has always been a unionist team with unionist fans and unionist players and a few nationalists who realise they are not good enough to represent Ireland and thus choose NI to further their club career prospects.

Ireland can choose players from the 32 counties of Ireland, what do we care what anthem they play in Windsor Park?

[punkrocket]

Pat Jennings would have gotten a game for any side in the world, at any time.

[Not Brazil]

The one thing they'd actually agree on is that one group are exclusively Brit(ish) and the other Irish.

Interesting.

I would strongly disagree with them, but uphold their right to identify as either British, Irish or both.

I can understand that these issues are challenging for those, from both the Unionist & Nationalist community, who only equate Irishness with Republican nationalism.

[Not Brazil]

Why are the Irish fans even interested in what anthem is played by another international team? In my opinion the NI team has always been a unionist team with unionist fans and unionist players and a few nationalists who realise they are not good enough to represent Ireland and thus choose NI to further their club career prospects.

You ask a very valid question.

Northern Ireland fans aren't interested in what Anthem the ROI use.

In my opinion the ROI team has always been a nationalist team with nationalist fans and nationalist players and a few British Citizens who realise they are not good enough to represent England and thus choose the ROI to further their club career prospects.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The thing is those people who view Irishness & Britishness as such are in the vast majority, at least 85%, if not more?

In my opinion the ROI team has always been a nationalist team with nationalist fans and nationalist players and a few British Citizens who realise they are not good enough to represent England and thus choose the ROI to further their club career prospects.

Which 'British citizens', might they be?
Darren Gibson? Shane Duffy?


And people in glass houses etc.

[Not Brazil]

The thing is those people who view Irishness & Britishness as such are in the vast majority, at least 85%, if not more?

Where did you pick up the statistic that "at least 85%, if not more" view Irishness & Britishness as mutually exclusive?

Perhaps you made it up?

If what you say is true, it's a bit of a blow for those who advocate a "united" Ireland, don't you think?