Originally Posted by OwlsFan
You call the guy interviewed arrogant for using a generalisation about soccer supporters and then insult him using a generalisation of rugby supporters? That makes you look incredibly petty.
Not every year is a classic, but as a tournament, I like the idea of it. And for neutrals it doesn't outstay its welcome. But that wasn't really the point I was making.
I don't see how one idiotic comment made during a voxpop - from one random punter (probably said in the heat of the moment) - should be followed up by another set of idiotic comments, talking about arrogant rugby toffs. I mean ffs, are we still really in that realm of thinking? It's petty & insecure to say the least. Newsflash, most rugby heads don't really care that much about what the soccer heads think - they're too busy enjoying the sport they love and they expect their fellow sportsnuts to do the same.
On person on a voxpop doesn't make a soapbox, this is what's ticking me off here. And yet here we are throwing out generalisations left right and centre about the egg-chasers. As someone passionate about both sports - followed rugby long before it was fashionable too so I know all about the supposed toffs - it's tiring that the same comments get trotted out that have just the smallest stench of reverse-snobbery.
Point taken about the comments of one man and generalisations, but I actually knock around with a bunch of rugby fans so my views are determined by their attitudes, plus years of experience. I don't actually think they're toffs by the way - though the DART line story is based on a former colleague from St. Michaels and Dalkey who at age 25 didn't know where Rathfarnham was!
I'm from a white collar rugby playing background myself. I was in a rugby playing school and have been going to internationals since the early 80s and all through the 90s, inter pros since the same time (not as regularly) and even several years of going to my AIL club every second Saturday.
It's not reverse snobbery at all - just a reaction to some of the rubbish I hear from people who should know better. It's actually worse now than in the 80s / 90s - admittedly as far as I can tell from the UK. Now there's a nasty Celtic Tiger-era smugness that has crept in, the type of attitude I never felt was befitting of the Irish, or certainly that I never liked when I saw it in the Irish. I'm a member of an Irish business grouping here in London and am not going to renew next year because of this.
I think we all know that during football's successful years we had a lot of fair weather fans only interested because the team was winning. I think there's a fair bit of that in the current rugby support.
I also loathe the double standards. My mate is an under age coach at Richmond who was thrilled when one of his charges got sent off for punching an arrogant opposition fly half because it showed great character. Another mate, who went drinking with me and Paul O'Shea before Spurs v Rovers, was rabbiting on in the pub that rugby is the only sport that can bond team mates together properly. Football, rowing crews, any other sport can't do that?
Oh, my rugby die hard mates are losing interest in Ireland. Leinster is more important to them now
He started it!
'Knackerball', 'wendyball', 'chavball' etc.
Edit: Shane Horgan on Off the Ball has just reiterated the exact same point the guy in the airport made i.e. if this had been soccer fans there could have been trouble.
Last edited by Jinxy; 13/02/2012 at 7:15 PM.
Never heard those used before myself, but thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to use them in future! See, this is why I used the term 'most' because just like in soccer, you get idiots. I just figured the rest of us could move past it rather than use it as an excuse for name calling
Fair enough, we all have our perspectives of the game & its support, and don't get me wrong - there's a definite clique in certain corners of the rugby fraternity that, well, the rest of us wouldn't mind if they were pushed off the end of a pier one sunny afternoon. But generally, as flooded as the game has become with fair-weather fans, the offshoot of this popularity has been a general disappearance of the traditional stereotype of the rugby fan.
Again fair enough, though I think you're sort of right; I don't think it's entirely about the Celtic Tiger. Munster & Leinster have rocketed to the top of the rugby food chain in Europe and with it has come a heightened sense of arrogance and rivalry in the support. More than one person has remarked to me that their personal idea of hell would be a Munster / Leinster H-Cup final because it would just be unbearably obnoxious to put up with.
Ha! Ah well to me that's a problem across the board in all schools field-sports, not just rugby. Ok, maybe not with the punching, but there's too much emphasis on the physical and the getting-stuck-in not enough on creativity. But that's for another thread I think.I also loathe the double standards. My mate is an under age coach at Richmond who was thrilled when one of his charges got sent off for punching an arrogant opposition fly half because it showed great character. Another mate, who went drinking with me and Paul O'Shea before Spurs v Rovers, was rabbiting on in the pub that rugby is the only sport that can bond team mates together properly. Football, rowing crews, any other sport can't do that?
Oh, my rugby die hard mates are losing interest in Ireland. Leinster is more important to them now
And did anybody challenge him on it?
If Horgan had qualified his remark by saying had it been an Old Firm game or Ajax v Feyenoord, Rovers v Bohs or whatever, he might be right. But France v ROI in Paris - no way.
I mentioned my mate being thrilled that one of his 11 year-olds decked his opposite number because he’s one of the same guys who bangs on about rugby’s superior values!
The L vs M thing is interesting. I heard on good authority that SKY really doesn’t want an all-Irish final.
There was an interview with the CEO of Premier League Rugby recently (Paul Ackford’s Sunday Telegraph column) complaining about the easy passage that Rabo league teams have into the competition. L and M, and some crappy Scottish and Italian franchises walk into the tournament automatically while English clubs have to fight tooth and nail to qualify. An Italian team has only once not come fourth in the pool stage apparently. L and M can rest players in advance and after H Cup weekends. Furthermore, this will never change because the H Cup committee in ERC (or who ever) is made up of 75% Celtic members.
I suspect this is at least partly true. The Celtic Tiger-era smugness I was referring to would be blind to any of this if the H Cup was an all Irish affair.
I’ve just finished a MSc in Sport Business. If I had one more paper to prepare it would be to challenge the conventional wisdom of Ireland’s superiority at club level and to ask whether there is a downside to the growth of the provincial franchises.
Yup, I read the same interview and it was a lot of sourgrapes on his part & deflection imo. English rugby is in a poor state at the moment, there's very little quality & technical work is being done in the academies and youth system; the net result is that the English teams are simply outplayed by the French & Celtic sides. The RFU don't like being the paupers, so lash out at the Rabo's perceived 'easiness'. But the Scots have a team in quarters, and are there on merit, and Italian side Treviso nearly knocked out the only remaining English team in the tourney (inexperience let them down, they can't close out games they're winning). Both those sides have tiny squads, even compared to the impoverished English, and really only 3 of the 12 in the Rabo have the depth to rotate in the fashion he was claiming exists. The rest have to fight tooth and nail too!
If you think the English FA & press are arrogant, you should read more about the RFU. They make their footie brethren look like humble saints.
I'm from Limerick, I played the game in secondary school (I was terrible, but that's a whole other story) and since moving to Dublin I've met more than my fair share of Leinster fans who look down on soccer fans as a lower class. One fan in particular spent time and energy decrying the professional game because of the new breed of supporters that have taken up residence in the RDS, and (in his exact words) "if that's how they want to act, they can f**k off and watch football".
Nope.
They did read out a text later on that said it was unfair to say that but at the time of the comment no remarks were passed.
In general I think soccer and the GAA are considered fair game on Off the Ball while rugby is a protected species.
I'm a sports supporter, I enjoy all sports, I can even find merit in biathlon (despite the drug abuse) and sports are an excellent vehicle for people to channel energy, to assist children growing into productive adults and to promote health issues. However there are two types of idiot species that surround sports. a) "I don't like sports" w@nkers and b) "My sport is better than all others" fupwits. Between them they make others ashamed of their passion or uncomfortable to enjoy their pursuits. Bogball (seen often on foot.ie), eggchasing etc, this is neverending nonsense used by those who feel inferior about their own sport and want to be different. The next step is to put on a leather thong, get your nipples pierced and prance around Grafton Street calling yourself an artist. We're lucky to have a proper sports culture in Ireland, knocking other sports show just how poorly you think of your own.
Amacann, you don't know the half of the RFU stupidity. Sitting at numerous conferences and training days with reps from the RFU (I shudder thinking of FIRA) and listening to them pontificate about how rugby should be played and organised, it killed me. Like soccer academies, the rugby counterparts are failing and english rugby is losing players year on year. As a result of their shortsighted policies, the RFU have effectively killed rugby development in Europe (my old firm worked with FIRA on this) using their veto to block any progress possible. In 2006 and 2007 (I think in 2010 in Malta also) they blocked initiatives proposed by nations to have a proper European league with the 6 nations B teams playing in it. The top flight of 10 teams would play each other once, there'd be 3 division of 10 below it. 37 of 38 countries voted for it in 2006 and 2007, the RFU vetoed it.
just one other thing, I have my own set of problems with the stadium announcer at Ireland games, but they pale in comparison with what the Leinster stadium announcer has been doing for the last two Munster games in the Aviva stadium.
He decided to stir things up for the 2010 game by trying to get the home fans to "show the Munster fans who the real rugby fans are in Ireland" (seriously, that's a direct quote over the tannoy) and in the game last November he didn't announce any of the Munster scorers in the first half, and announced each Leinster scorer with "*loud excited voice*Johnny Sexton (or whoever) penalty! Leinster 13 *mumbles into his chest* Munster 9"
Someone must have had a word with him at half time because he started announcing the scorers in the second half.
To be fair, some Leinster-following friends of mine did apologise to me for his behaviour
eh football is and always will be number one!!!!
(followed by boxing, athletics and cricket!!!)
"proper sports country" ? Really, pity we dont like to invest in it then. I would argue we are the best event junkies in the world (which is fine)
:-) I'd disagree, women's beach volleyball.
That's the problem BC, we're a proper sports country, with proper grassroots support (without which there'd be nothing) and a government who do nothing but pay lip service. Here in Russia you've a government who construct the places but no grassroots support. The oligarchs have been forced to invest in sports here (pick a club and you'll find the backer in seconds) or they'll lose their state gifted assets, in Ireland we can't do that. Or won't. Every country has sports junkies, the Irish just enjoy it more than others.
Yet bogball is the most popular sport in the country? Doesnt that prove we haven't a clue about sport
I'm fairly sure soccer is the most popular. The GAA sports combined might be more popular but they are two different sports.
Eh, rugby is the most popular sport.
Did ye not read the first post?
But shouldn't we be glad if soccer's less popular than GAA(football) , rugby & hurling in that order.
With golf/racing very close.
It takes off less pressure in terms of getting tickets and the like.
And if their fans happen to be D4 snobs or the worst sort of gombeen man, so what?
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