Quality players in the international wilderness.

[the doc]

One thing that struck me about last night (and most other people too) was the horrible bench we had. When we had Hunt playing we had literally nobody who could make any sort of impact and most our bench was composed of fringe players for their club.
How many of the experienced options below, each playing well for their club should be considered? I think each of them offer something different and worthwhile, surely worthy of a squad place. Our strength in depth in the current squad really has me worried if we get hit with a few injuries.

- Andy Reid
- Lee Carsley
- Rory Delap
- Clinton Morrison
- Daryl Murphy
- Stephen Carr

Replace what we had on the bench last night with those guys and I think we'd have serious options to change a game. Right now we're too predictable.

Even more frightening is the fact that after the bench, we have the likes of Alex Bruce waiting in the squad!

Trapp has recommended him to Italian clubs, don't you know!

[Jicked]

Even more frightening is the fact that after the bench, we have the likes of Alex Bruce waiting in the squad!

Trapp has recommended him to Italian clubs, don't you know!

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

[weldoninhio]

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

Andy Reid - A lot better than what we have at the moment

Lee Carsley - A lot better than what we have at the moment

Rory Delap - Not a great option

Clinton Morrison - Same goals to game ratio as Kevin Doyle, works hard, holds up the play well, deserves at least a chance

Daryl Murphy - Not seen enough of him playing to give an educated opinion

Stephen Carr - Has done very well for Birmingham in the past 3 games

[sligofan4ever]

What about Keith Fahey ?

surely he deserves a chance.

[Razors left peg]

Andy Reid should be starting in midfield ahead of Whelan. He does more work defensively and gives a better option going forward. I thought Whelan did well in his first couple of games alongside Steven Reid but since then the has been beyond awful.
Anyone that doesnt think Andy Reid is capable of doing a defensive job should re watch the Germany game in Croker in the last campaign.Not only that, with Reid in middle of the park we would hold better possesion of the ball and not be worried about having to put as many tackles in.The best form of defense in football is holding on to the ball yourself and not letting the opposition have it.Whelan gives us absolutley nothing when we have possesion of the ball.And I wouldnt mind if he was a good reader of the game defensively and was able to break up play, but everything goes past him.He is a nothing player and we are basically playing with one in midfield when he plays. Andy Reid is definately a better option in there until Steven Reid gets fit again

[mark12345]

A little lengthy lads, but here goes.


Let’s talk scientific equations here!

When any machine, system or body part is not functioning properly it is usually taken to a laboratory where scientists make microscopic determinations and come up with answers to problems.

Problem: Style of play, or lack thereof.

For time immemorial Irish teams which have enjoyed leads against international opposition of any status or description, surrender, without fail, all sense of attacking responsibility.

Even the most challenged of opponents are invited to try their luck in the Irish third, for however long it takes them to score, the results of which, most recently, were Cyprus almost snatching what would have been a deserved equalizer at Croke Park and Bulgaria doing so on Saturday last. The sense among many Irish fans is that the Boys in Green would never bother attacking their opponents to grab an insurance goal, if Shay Given’s net remained unbreached.

There is a catalogue of similar stories from recent years, the more dramatic of which occurred in Tel Aviv, Zagreb and Skopje.

The reasons for this style of play are very obvious. The Boys in Green don’t have the wherewithal to move the ball through midfield and, by extension, to keep meaningful possession for any length of time. In fact almost all of our attacking opportunities come via the wings. Aiden McGeady, Stephen Hunt, Damien Duff and Kevin Kilbane are the principals in this area at present, but it doesn’t take much brain capacity to remember Tony Galvin, Kevin O’Callaghan and Steve Heighway operating in similar circumstances in previous lives.

In fact Gary Kelly epitomizes our dilemma. The Leeds full-back earned all his rave reviews for his prowess on the wing. Gary’s infield interaction with his midfield colleagues, as was also the case with Stephen Carr and Jeff Kenna, was not worth writing about. This is in contrast to other football cultures (like Bulgaria for instance) where the full-backs offer support in the midfield and look to spring strikers, or advanced midfielders with probing passes. In such cases the beachhead is established around the halfway line, as it was at Croke Park on Saturday evening, with the opposition being forced to defend in numbers.

Giovanni Trapattoni, smart man that he is, has obviously recognized the dearth of ability among his current team. It’s all very fine sitting back in your own half and, in classic Italian style, springing a counter attack which sees one or two green shirts queuing up to score – but in reality the current Irish team doesn’t have the ball handling skills to execute such moves.

To watch lowly El Salvador, ranked 126th in the world, perform such tasks with consummate ease against the USA on Saturday, was to put Ireland’s plight into perspective. We don’t produce the coaches in Ireland who demand such technical ability of our youngsters, most probably because they’ve never been taught it themselves. Our answer is to sweep the problem under the rug and hope it will go away, as we’ve been doing since the 1960’s.

Should Trap be blamed? For his persistence with Glenn Whelan – he probably did the right thing in teaching Andy Reid a lesson – the big man is culpable, as he is for sending Paul McShane out to defend our right flank. But in the bigger picture he has been forced to operate with too many sub-standard surgical instruments.

Answer: There’s no short term answer. Ireland’s inability to hold possession and play the ball through midfield is a cancer which has been left dormant for too long. Giovanni Trapattoni will need to be some sort of miracle worker to change that, but in all likelihood this transformation is going to take years to affect (that is if we do the right thing now and bring in foreign coaches to teach our youngest and most impressionable). The big Italian will be lucky to get this Ireland team to South Africa.


Problem: Dearth of midfield creativity.

It is an established fact that the Irish midfield lacks creativity. The ongoing debate about Andy Reid has been experienced by all living things over the last six months – Saturday’s exclusion of the Sunderland midfielder appearing to set the seal on his international career at least while Trapattoni is involved.

But is that the end of this particular story? Are we destined to be tortured by the ineffectual Glenn Whelan for the remainder of this World Cup campaign? What about Robbie Keane? It has long since been suggested in this column that Tottenham’s best attacking midfielder be billeted in a similar role for his country. It’s an experiment which must begin in Bari on Wednesday night. There are no alternatives at this stage - that is unless Trap wants to opt for Shane Long, Owen Garvan or some other midfield fledgling. That the manager persisted with Whelan for the duration on Saturday is very troubling.

In Keane’s forward berth, place Noel Hunt. He has the legs and lungs to complement Kevin Doyle.

Answer: Robbie Keane

Problem: A misconception which needs explaining.

The Premier League is purported to be the best football league in the world. Ireland had seven players from its vaulted ranks starting at Croke Park on Saturday. Bulgaria, on the other hand had only one. How then were the visitors so much better in many facets of the game?

Answer: Those who use the Premier League as a common denominator or an indicator of ability are quite probably mistaken.

[Stuttgart88]

Those who use the Premier League as a common denominator or an indicator of ability are quite probably mistaken.

That's what I thought last night. I couldn't believe how few of our players had even the basic technical ability.

Neither full back looked to have the basics.
Neither central midfielder could get the ball down and use it, even sideways.
Hunt is a carthorse. Great first minute but that's about it.

How on earth can these guys earn such a good living? I thought last night that if Everton are chasing Hunt it says it all about the EPL.

Who looked OK technically? One wide midfielder (being charitable here to McGeady who wasn't fit I'd say). The CB's - I dunno, I'll be charitable and say CM failed to give them a proper option.

Both forwards did well enough considering.

[the doc]

[quote=Jicked;1132400]Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Alex Bruce can't even get a regular game in a below average side!

Both Bruce and McShane are on their way down, they won't bet any better as they lack ability.

It's a disgrace that Trapp takes the easy option and keeps picking them, whilst better players continue to perform well week in week out, and don't get a look in.

They say the strength of your team and squad can be judged by the quality of players on the bench.....Oh dear!

Well Done Trapp!

Well Done Don!

[Jicked]

[quote=the doc;1132582]

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Alex Bruce can't even get a regular game in a below average side!

Both Bruce and McShane are on their way down, they won't bet any better as they lack ability.

It's a disgrace that Trapp takes the easy option and keeps picking them, whilst better players continue to perform well week in week out, and don't get a look in.

They say the strength of your team and squad can be judged by the quality of players on the bench.....Oh dear!

Well Done Trapp!

Well Done Don!

I've just read your last 75 posts. 2 out of those 75 were not about St Ledger or Eddie Nolan, and those two were still criticising the Irish team.

You are a painfully tiresome.

[carloz]

Chris McCann

[SilkCut]

A little lengthy lads, but here goes.


Problem: Dearth of midfield creativity.

It is an established fact that the Irish midfield lacks creativity. The ongoing debate about Andy Reid has been experienced by all living things over the last six months – Saturday’s exclusion of the Sunderland midfielder appearing to set the seal on his international career at least while Trapattoni is involved.

But is that the end of this particular story? Are we destined to be tortured by the ineffectual Glenn Whelan for the remainder of this World Cup campaign? What about Robbie Keane? It has long since been suggested in this column that Tottenham’s best attacking midfielder be billeted in a similar role for his country. It’s an experiment which must begin in Bari on Wednesday night. There are no alternatives at this stage - that is unless Trap wants to opt for Shane Long, Owen Garvan or some other midfield fledgling. That the manager persisted with Whelan for the duration on Saturday is very troubling.

In Keane’s forward berth, place Noel Hunt. He has the legs and lungs to complement Kevin Doyle.

Answer: Robbie Keane

.

This is a very good observation, I fully agree that Keane should be deployed in the same role as Gerrard at Liverpool, that is what they bought him for, then sold him when they realised they could not leave 20 million worth of playing talent on the bench as back up to possibly the best player in the world at the moment. With Keane in that role there is no need to replace him with anyone just leave Doyle up on his own to feed off what Keane gives him, Doyle, despite his limitations is a very good finisher. As for the players on the list, I agree Morrison should get another chance ahead of Folan, DeLap never really had any great effect when he was in the squad even with his long throw in so I don't see any reason for that to change. Carsley may be good to have around for the younger players but nothing else. Carr has been out of football for too long he is now a championship player at best but may be useful if Finnan can't get fit (apparently he never really wanted to come out of retirement). Murphy is not the answer to any of our problems - Stephen elliot mark 2. Andy Reid is a fat lazy waste of undoubted talent who is a bit part player at a club who are trying to go places, he will be sold back to a championship club in the summer, unless he wakes up and realises what he is about to throw away. He is in no way shape or form worthy of a place in a team who's biggest strength is its work rate and spirit.

We need a friendly to fast track McCarthy and McCann - possibly Garvan.

[Brendan 82]

[quote=Jicked;1132602]

I've just read your last 75 posts. 2 out of those 75 were not about St Ledger or Eddie Nolan, and those two were still criticising the Irish team.

You are a painfully tiresome.

haha

[Hibernian]

What about Keith Fahey ?

surely he deserves a chance.

not yet imo

[Gareth]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.

[Razors left peg]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.

he is a hell of a better player than Whelan or Andy Keogh

[Gareth]

he is a hell of a better player than Whelan or Andy Keogh

That's fair enough, but all manager's play people you think are weaker than someone else at their disposal. It's always been the way. I just think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves in thinking he's a messiah who must be in the squad for us to qualify.

Trapatoni has a way of playing, and we may hate it, but we have a very average squad and if he manages to finish second or first in this group, he will have done something extremely impressive.

[noddy102]

Whoever claims Clinton Morrison works hard, needs to get real.

The only player of the list in the original post that should be in the squad is Andy Reid. There can be no questioning that he is off-form at the moment, but even when off form, he is worth having on the bench, so that you can change things around.

[Royal rover]

none of the players mentioned with the exception of reid deserve to be in the squad, to think some of you would be in favour of having clinton back as well as stephen carr

[backstothewall]

- Rory Delap - Provides the most direct route to goal known to man, an interesting prospect from the bench. I'm undecided if I'd use him or not.

We should no be too proud to use him. We were never to proud to hump it up to Quinner or Cas when we needed to.

I would have him i the starting 11. Despite being unorthadox he offers a threat. A goal created by virtue of a 40 yard throw in onto Dunne or Doyle's head counts for exactly the same number of goals as one created as a result of a 40 yard slide-rule pass from Fabregas to Villa.

He also offers as much as a midfielder as anyone else we have available. Its not that we are falling down with creative midfielders in the absence of Ireland

[SkStu]

always thought Delap was harshly treated in the past. Dropped forever for one mistake in a friendly against the USA (i think), similar to Keanes mistake on Saturday when a Bulgarian player had a free header from a corner early in the first half. Difference was it didnt cost us a goal on Saturday.

I watched the NI game on Setanta here (free trial - woohoo) on Sunday and the Poles werent shy about launching long throws into the NI box. If its good enough for them, its good enough for us.

Also, having watched Delap for Stoke a few times this season, he is not the one-dimensional player he is painted as being in this forum. Great stamina, very strong, decent passer and, of course, he can take a throw in pretty effectively.

I think he could do a job for us.