Irish public popularity shift away from soccer?

[John83]

On the flip side Ciaran, having seen what happened in Saipan you'd think it could never happen again in Irish sport, yet the IRFU did as good a job as possible at copying it during the calamitous WC07 campaign, including the preparation. The report published in response was a whitewash of epic proportions that put the original Genesis Report in the shade.

Having jumped through any number of hoops to get hold of the original Genesis Report (various UCD fans followed numerous avenues to failure before the late Seamus Brennan got us a copy), and having confirmed with the IRFU that their Genesis Report was not being made available to the public, I'm not sure that it's fair to make a comparison. But perhaps I'm making bad assumptions, and you're connected enough to have read both reports. In my opinion, the report on Saipan was fairly pathetic. The IRFU one would have to be unspeakably bad to really "put [it] in the shade".

A blog piece on foot.ie seems to put the FAI in a good light re-licensing etc. If the FAI is to be believed there really has been a shift to state of the art governance structures in the Irish game.

Just one side of the argument but valid nonetheless...

I assume you mean the Q&A with Padraig Smith? In fairness, he is an FAI employee - that article was always going to show the FAI in a good light. There do appear to be significant improvements to governance here, but it's not yet clear that these are effective or being implimented correctly. The perception among many fans is that licensing has been and continues to be fudged, and the financial problems of last year belie any claims that everything's suddenly rosy. I'm still willing to give it time - things were in such a bad state that it will take ages to right.

[Stuttgart88]

The opportunity for fans to watch what is widely perceived as the Chamipons League equivalent on their own doorstep has generated interest in Rugby unheard of 10+ years ago.

On top of that, it also allows the public to relate to our "stars" in a way that it's hard to with our UK football stars. The rubgy guys live here and work here. The footballers are away in the clouds!

As said above, the old bond between fan and team has been broken in football but it can be won back - the likes of Doyle and Stephen Hunt clearly have brought a sense of realism back into the fold.

[Stuttgart88]

In my opinion, the report on Saipan was fairly pathetic. The IRFU one would have to be unspeakably bad to really "put [it] in the shade".

I didn't read the rugby report but the newspapers covered it well and were scathing of it. I can't remember the key details but I think the biggest criticism was the offering of EO'S a lucrative new long term contract at a time when it was almost unanimous his job should at best be deserving of only one short last chance. I think everyone in the game agreed it was a whitewash, no blame was placed despite a number of disastrous errors in the preparation and organisation.

[John83]

I didn't read the rugby report but the newspapers covered it well and were scathing of it. I can't remember the key details but I think the biggest criticism was the offering of EO'S a lucrative new long term contract at a time when it was almost unanimous his job should at best be deserving of only one short last chance. I think everyone in the game agreed it was a whitewash, no blame was placed despite a number of disastrous errors in the preparation and organisation.

I may have this wrong, but I think that journalists were only given access to an IRFU summary (which was published in full). This could have significantly distorted the perception of the report.

[tricky_colour]

Looking through some RTE viewership figures I was really surprised to see the Soccer matches doing so poorly, not just against Rugby but against all sports in general. Especially since we're doing so well this campaign.

Average figures for some sporting events are:

Ireland v Wales (Rugby) - 952,000
All Ireland Hurling Final - 709,000
All Ireland Football Final - 707,00
Bernard Dunne's Fight - 585,000
Ireland v Cyprus - 517,000

You might argue that the four ranked above the qualifier were all far more significant matches in their sport than the qualifier but what was really telling for me was moving away from Ireland games and comparing a big Six Nations game with a big Champions League game.

France v Wales (Six Nations) - 536,000
Man Utd v Inter Milan (Champions League) - 497,000

I read before that the Premiership highlights show prior to christmas was getting stuffed ratings wise by the Heineken Cup highlights show too, nice to see the sporting shift move away from foreign teams and on to our own. Just hope our national teams public interest decline halts soon, I really think we need to qualify this campaign or the game in this country is in serious trouble.

Sources:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnat...3/ireland.html
http://www.rte.ie/arts/2009/0110/rtetelevision.html
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnat.../ireland1.html
http://www.rte.ie/about/pressrelease...s16102008.html

This is rubbish, he is comparing peak figures for the non-football games to peak firgures for other sports.

The peak figure for Cyprus was about 750,000 - case dismissed.

[jbyrne]

Anyone see Kevin Myers today comparing the Grand Slam win with a Norway win in cross-country skiing? Big for them but it'd go unnoticed in most of the sporting world. He has a point!

Irish begrudging "journalism" at its best
that comparison is ridiculous but myres is a twit so nothing better to be expected. rugby is actually huge in many countries that are not in the rugby limelight and coverage of our grand slam will be a lot wider than that clown would ever imagine

hes in the independant isnt he? they started the begrudgery as early as their sunday morning offering with a nonsense article about the grand slam not being that big deal

[irishultra]

kevin myers

[Stuttgart88]

I may have this wrong, but I think that journalists were only given access to an IRFU summary (which was published in full). This could have significantly distorted the perception of the report.

Sounds like you know more about it than I do. Still, my contention is only that the IRFU isn't beyond criticism.

I'd add that as far as I can recall the FAI was rightly shafted by the government over eircom park which was actually largely underwritten by a major bank. I don't think the FAI has ever got a great deal from government.

Just adding some balance on the issue anyway, the FAI has rightly attracted criticism over the years too.

[tricky_colour]

Peak figures for most of the Irish six nations games were over a million (1.1 v scotland, 1.2 v Wales) those are average figures I posted.

Hmmm you posted a link to the England Rugby match which was not in the list of figures, that peaked at 9 million, seem I confused that with the Wales match figures.

[gspain]

Peak figures for most of the Irish six nations games were over a million (1.1 v scotland, 1.2 v Wales) those are average figures I posted.

You did not. You have already been picked up on this.

You posted the constant figure for the Cyprus match. This is the number of people who watched the whole game on RTE without changing channels. The average for adults 15+ was higher than this not to mind overall viewers.

Indeed the peak figure is probably more realistic as it was for the analysis. I watch the champions league on Sky but watch the RTE panel.

[paul_oshea]

On top of that, it also allows the public to relate to our "stars" in a way that it's hard to with our UK football stars. The rubgy guys live here and work here. The footballers are away in the clouds!

As said above, the old bond between fan and team has been broken in football but it can be won back - the likes of Doyle and Stephen Hunt clearly have brought a sense of realism back into the fold.

good old down to earth gaa country lads.

[Macy]

I don't think the IRFU is above critism - the failure to actually fully commit to making Connacht truly competitive would be a case in point for me.

However, the biggest difference is how the game is structured. It's all about feeding up from mini rugby to the international team. In football, the individual elements fight for their own identity and do their own thing. There's not a hope of the "nursery" clubs feeding into the League of Ireland, as that would go against their aim of getting players overseas and up on club house plaques. Indeed, even at that level, it's not about player development it's about trophies. You can blame the organisation all you want, but it's ultimately down to the FAI constituent parts that they can't get a truely coherent plan to develop both players for the international team and the League of Ireland.

[fergalr]

To the public theres nothing but shame and disappointment associated with the LOI.

Really? Which public are you claiming to speak for?

The sell-out crowd that went to Tallaght two weeks ago and the sell-out crowd that will be there this Friday?

Everyone who witnessed any of the many LOI successes in Europe over the past 5 years?

[Macy]

Are you really so deluded to believe that the typical soccer fan knows squat about the LOI? The LOI is probably on par with schools rugby in this country and thats even being generous, I can imagine Shannon and Garryowen getting higher crowds and probably more Tv time than the LOI.

And if we ever have a successful football team it will be more by accident than design because of attitudes like this. As I said earlier, you can talk all the bullcrap you want about the organisations, it's the attitudes amongst the entire system that has Irish football in the place it is - there's no collective goal like there is in Rugby.

[Stuttgart88]

the biggest difference is how the game is structured. It's all about feeding up from mini rugby to the international team. In football, the individual elements fight for their own identity and do their own thing. There's not a hope of the "nursery" clubs feeding into the League of Ireland, as that would go against their aim of getting players overseas and up on club house plaques. Indeed, even at that level, it's not about player development it's about trophies. You can blame the organisation all you want, but it's ultimately down to the FAI constituent parts that they can't get a truely coherent plan to develop both players for the international team and the League of Ireland.

Can the FAI change that though?

[Macy]

Under their current structure I don't think they could, and I don't see how the turkey's would vote for christmas to allow the change of structure!

[Stuttgart88]

(Putting on Bill O'Herlihy's voice) Let me put it to you Macy that if the abovementioned "Magners League" equivalent happened to ever be in place, with the best Irish clubs competing against better European competition, that this'd lead to these clubs being more successful financially and then these clubs would be more viable "targets" for the nursery clubs? That way we'd have the better Irish players at home in a similar manner to the rugby players (though obviously not the very best - they'd still go abroad) . The best Irish based talent would be concentrated rather than spread throughout a larger LOI and would be complemented by some imports.

[elroy]

Good post, I prefer the game of soccer to rugby but I'd support the rugby lads far more than the soccer team for the reason that the players and staff and much more worthy of my support. They are integrated in society, with the people and are a very good representation of the country. You get ROG's arrogance, Paulies confidence, Drico's mind games, Bowe singing in front of the crowd in comparison to the cringeworthy 2002 world cup homecoming where the whole team shuffled around nervously probably frustrated they weren't able to go straight to their actual home. Even several of the lads like Luke Fitzgerald can speak fluent Irish. All I get from the soccer team is an inferiority complex that should have been left behind half a century ago with some exceptions like Doyle and Hunt. But for every one of those theres 4 Andy O Briens or Alex Bruces.

Worthy of your support because basically they live here is it?!? Oh right ya thats great criteria so it is. Funny how one of the examples you mentioned above Tommy Bowe earns his keep in Wales. I agree that the guys that live here are obviously going to be integrated in society more than our professional footballers in the UK. I also agree that some individuals in the Irish football havent exactly been easy to relate to, however take the likes of Clinton Morrison who had questionable Irish credentials but showed a real desire to play for us when he did and was a great character that the fans took to. Many more examples from the past, Houghton, Aldridge, McCarthy, McAteer etc etc etc.

Representation of their country, so are you trying to say that the likes of Given, Dunne, Keane etc are not good representatives of their country, even Kilbane who was born in the UK but is as good a representative of this country as any Irishman.

Who are these several lads that can speak "fluent" Irish? Luke F has decent Irish (Obviously you saw him on the news the other day), who else does???? Again i dont see this a valid criteria for a player been more "worthy of your support"

[jbyrne]

having been in cardiff last sat it reminded me of how our football occasions used to be. loyal, hardcore and colourful support was to be seen by both sides. the whole day in cardiff was a massive sporting occasion and this was all because of the match that was in it. if our footballers can achieve similar relative success over the next few months then football will be right up there again in the eyes of the nation.
unfortunately for the last few years our football team have underperformed and appeared to lack a little care and passion. the apparent current apathy towards our team by the general public will disappear with a few good results over the next few games

[bennocelt]

Worthy of support because they represent my culture, interesting card to play since I'm sure you'd support the LOI if you weren't Irish.

Bowe went to Ospreys because Ulster became total pants and with the wingers Leinster and Munster have he wouldn't get into their teams, what real choice did he have?

And yeah others do speak Irish on the rugby team, Paulie and Flannery were both educated in Gaeltachts actually.

i dont know - but when i played football in college i had great fun, made good friends and was welcomed. tried to play on the rugby team - complete opposite - played by hobnobs that wouldnt talk to you - maybe its different now?

and what the hell does speaking irish prove? that they went to good schools?
a lot of gaelcoers are snobs too -