Stephen Kenny

[zero]

Seriously ?
If only you were the place wouldn't have descended into the troll & spam fest it these days is. Stu engaged the guy on substance after months of making a solidarity point & it's then you decide to " mod " it John ?

Have you noticed the place is lifeless even on match days of late ? Try modding that addresses that maybe.

I'd suggest the quietness on matchdays and in general is down to the subject of this thread and the air of apathy he has brought and the fact that if you criticise him you're an anti kennyite, but it's almost impossible to support him. The result, silence.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd suggest the quietness on matchdays and in general is down to the subject of this thread and the air of apathy he has brought and the fact that if you criticise him you're an anti kennyite, but it's almost impossible to support him. The result, silence.

I dunno, plenty chat elsewhere I find, as much as before & maybe more. Plenty criticism too. Plenty season ticket sales too I see.

[pineapple stu]

The plenty season ticket sales is mad. We're rubbish and have been for some time - 6-1 against Germany, 5-1 against Denmark, scraping past Gibraltar and Georgia, now playing awful stuff against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Lithuania and Malta - but the season ticket sales just seem to keep going up and the attendances in general are excellent when compared across Europe. It's weird.

[Jd2793]

The plenty season ticket sales is mad. We're rubbish and have been for some time - 6-1 against Germany, 5-1 against Denmark, scraping past Gibraltar and Georgia, now playing awful stuff against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Lithuania and Malta - but the season ticket sales just seem to keep going up and the attendances in general are excellent when compared across Europe. It's weird.

i think the fans have wedded themselves to SK , buying season tickets is a sign of their faith in him. mine has gone after the last window, fair play to those who still believe!

[CraftyToePoke]

I don't know, I think its a clear message people don't want to see a return to past methods should a managerial change come also.

[Diggs246]

The plenty season ticket sales is mad. We're rubbish and have been for some time - 6-1 against Germany, 5-1 against Denmark, scraping past Gibraltar and Georgia, now playing awful stuff against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Lithuania and Malta - but the season ticket sales just seem to keep going up and the attendances in general are excellent when compared across Europe. It's weird.

Its the only fully Pro football we have so we will always have strong attendance

[Diggs246]

OK, a couple of quick thoughts about what we should be looking for in a manager. First a very basic observation - international football management is different from club management in that you can't recruit players to suit your tactical philosophy and you don't have as much time to convert players to your style (yes, I know, I'm a pundit genius). This is particularly pertinent for a team with a small pool of international-standard players, like us. So let's look at our current and future strengths going forward - we have a solid looking defense which has the potential to become really good over the next couple of years; we're still light in terms of midfield creativity, though hopefully this will improve if two or three from Coventry, Hodge, Ronan, Smallbone, Moran, Connell and Devoy make the grade over the next couple of years. Up front, we have the potential to have a really fast frontline between Obafemi, Ogbene and Armstrong - but for that to work we need to get them into foot-races against defenses, not have them jogging around with deep-lying defenses, waiting for us to tiki-taka the ball through a press, as seemed to be happening against Malta. If Idah recovers, he provides a mix of big target man and speed-merchant, while Ferguson also has the potential to be an aerial threat.
So yes, we come back to tactics that some fans did not like - inviting teams onto us to create space behind them and then hitting long balls for our forwards to chase (a la Shane Long vs Germany) and knocking balls for a big target man to knock down to a fast/skillful forward (a la Quinn and Keane). There is scope for passing as well but more in terms of breaking quickly.

In terms of managers, we need to look first at what level we should be looking to attract - as I said before, the last three times we have had a successful LOI/underage manager or someone with no track record, it has ended poorly, with no qualification (notwithstanding a major turnaround by Kenny), whereas the last four times we chose managers with track records from the English second tier or above, we were more competitive and qualified at least once. So we need somebody of that calibre, or close to it, if we can't afford an elite manager. But we should believe that there would be some prestige in potentially managing a team in a major international tournament. We could do with somebody who can find innovative ways to help a team punch above its weight. Given what I said about our central defence, would that open things up for Chris Wilder and his overlapping centre-backs - he had success at Sheffield united with that over a couple of years - eventually teams were able to adjust to his style, but with fewer international games, opponents might not be ready for it.

Alternatively, I think we should keep a close eye on Jim Goodwin's progress with Aberdeen - after a bad start, he's got them into third place, only eight points behind Rangers. If we can afford a bit more, Scott Parker has done well in The Championship, even if he hasn't had success in the EPL.

There's probably more I could say, but it's now late here so I'll leave these thoughts for discussion

This is 100% correct! Wilder would be perfect and getable i guess

I wouldn't close the door on Chirs Hughton

I had previously suggested ralph hasenhüttl, before Kenny and before he moved to Southampton... I fear he is now out of reach for us

[pineapple stu]

Its the only fully Pro football we have so we will always have strong attendance

Shamrock Rovers would beg to disagree...

[Diggs246]

Shamrock Rovers would beg to disagree...

They can disagree until the cows come home. They play against Finn Harps etc who have loads of lads with other jobs

My mate played for Sligo rovers and st pat while also working for KPMG

It is not a fully professional league

[pineapple stu]

Nope, but then Ireland play against Malta and Gibraltar who have loads of lads with other jobs too.

International football isn't fully pro either by the same measure.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't close the door on Chirs Hughton

Interesting. I've been reluctant to consider Hughton but maybe he's the right man at the right time. I still feel he's a bit too "pre-2008" though.

Wilder certainly made his mark in his first season in the PL. The team was clearly really well coached, pressing in packs, transitioning at speed. But what went wrong after that?

[tetsujin1979]

Interesting. I've been reluctant to consider Hughton but maybe he's the right man at the right time. I still feel he's a bit too "pre-2008" though.

Wilder certainly made his mark in his first season in the PL. The team was clearly really well coached, pressing in packs, transitioning at speed. But what went wrong after that?

they had a load of games in that first season that finshed 1-0 or 1-1. The following season they became 1-0 losses, and they were relegated

[Jd2793]

This is 100% correct! Wilder would be perfect and getable i guess

I wouldn't close the door on Chirs Hughton

I had previously suggested ralph hasenhüttl, before Kenny and before he moved to Southampton... I fear he is now out of reach for us

id slam it shut on hughton. hassenhuttl seems like a guy who would annoy more people here than kenny does, if thats possible.

[CraftyToePoke]

This is 100% correct! Wilder would be perfect and getable

Isn't he possibly also just the most recent incarnation of Aidy Boothroyd / Phil Brown / Nigel Worthington / Iain Dowie etc who had a season or two getting away with it at the top level before being figured out and subsequently dropping away to the lesser leagues though ?

[jbyrne]

The plenty season ticket sales is mad. We're rubbish and have been for some time - 6-1 against Germany, 5-1 against Denmark, scraping past Gibraltar and Georgia, now playing awful stuff against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Lithuania and Malta - but the season ticket sales just seem to keep going up and the attendances in general are excellent when compared across Europe. It's weird.

yes, just ignore all the other decent results, qualification for 2016 and near miss qualification for 2018 in the period you refer to.
we hammered qatar 4-0..... what more did you want from that game?
remember the 1-0 against germany since the 1-6 result??

the fans seem to relate to this team much more than a lot of previous Irish teams irrespective of results. throw in the excellent ST value and the likes of hollland and france coming here next year and its all quite understandable really.

[Diggs246]

Isn't he possibly also just the most recent incarnation of Aidy Boothroyd / Phil Brown / Nigel Worthington / Iain Dowie etc who had a season or two getting away with it at the top level before being figured out and subsequently dropping away to the lesser leagues though ?

He did very well in the bundasliga as well though

[CraftyToePoke]

He did very well in the bundasliga as well though

Wilder ? Ok.

[Diggs246]

Wilder ? Ok.

Sorry my bad i thought u were referencing
ralph hasenhüttl

[SkStu]

I'd suggest the quietness on matchdays and in general is down to the subject of this thread and the air of apathy he has brought and the fact that if you criticise him you're an anti kennyite, but it's almost impossible to support him. The result, silence.

I just do not think that is fair. There is a different between healthy debate/disagreement and criticism/silencing and most of what passes here is definitely healthy debate. The only people who get criticised are those who are on the extreme edge of the discussion - the Boomshakalakas, Weldoninhio and PaulO'Sheas of the world. Just loudspeaker "you're all thicks" that add nothing - there has to be a little give and take or constructive ideation rather than what the forum has suffered through from a very loud and destructive minority since SK's appointment - day one, for all intents and purposes.

If there is evidence of others - outside of those three - that have been on the receiving end of unfair or OTT criticism for expressing their opinion against Kenny, i will happily take the above comment back and STFU.

My take, for what its worth - the guts of the pro-Kenny side of things for the last couple of years has been "just give him a bit more time and see, theres a new approach and young players, give him some breathing room" - - and i think most have moved further away from that middle ground in the last 3-5 months. Others havent but they're not being loudspeaker a-holes about it either. Neither are the vast majority of the anti-Kenny side.

[pineapple stu]

I wonder how many options we have for manager really? I know people say "There has to be plenty of people interested" and the likes - but is that really true? The recent appointments - with the exception of Trap - have all been fairly predictable.

Kenny - had done well at 21s manager (we'll ignore the silly way he was appointed at the same time as Mick) and with an exceptional LoI record.
Mick II, our previous manager (and indeed captain).
Martin O'Neill, who had long been mooted (in the same kind of way that Hughton is now).
Trap - Denis O'Brien was in with his millions and wanted a big name, plus Trap was nearly 70 and international football probably suited him.
Stan - well, less said soonest mended there, but he was a former captain.
Kerr - exceptional record at underage and deserved a shot.
Mick I - a previous captain and had a really good club CV with Millwall. Probably wouldn't get him today given the money in England.
Jack - again was looking for something less day-to-day than club management

I don't remember any particularly serious (or interesting) alternatives to those at the time - I can remember names like Paul Jewell, Steve Bruce and so on.

So while it's the FAI's job, not ours, to find attractive candidates, I'm not sure we're entirely awash with them. Maybe someone with LoI experience like Paul Cook? But you know...it's not exactly inspiring.