Bulgaria V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd September 2020 - UEFA Nations League

[Kingdom]

I have logged in tonight to say almost exactly that.

Really looking forward to this game and really happy with the side put out. As Kingdom says abnove, change may as well come now, because there is never a good time.

Also, howya lads!

Great to see you back, chief. You didn't even gloat on the 5.
much respect.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Thought it was fine for a first match last night, a score-draw away nothing to sniff at in the circumstances. Lots of areas where we could improve, most notably for me maintaining control of games in second halves. Some encouraging signs there, but I think it's very important to give Kenny plenty of time before judgement are made. I think of all the managers we've had in my lifetime, he's the most in peril of getting written off quickly, especially by the media, owing to where his footballing background is.

[paul_oshea]

I think it's early to say what Kenny wants from his central player. Just because he isn't going to hammer the ball up to him doesn't mean he won't play to McGoldrick's strengths once he is available to him.

Bulgaria were able to play the way they did last night because we didn't have a player like him. They committed so many bodies into congesting the 18 yard box that they weren't opposing us trying to work the ball into areas a potentially dangerous cross could be played from. If you are going to do that with a player like McGoldrick standing on the penalty spot he's going to punish you. Had he been there in place of Idah it would have forced them to defend a bit higher up and send defenders to close down the ball in wide areas, which in turn would have created more space to play balls through them.

He'll come in against Finland and if we build our attacks up the way we did yesterday I fancy us to actually score a goal from open play.

I amn't disagreeing with your general point, but McGoldrick is hardly a prolific scorer and has found it hard to get on the end of things for both us and Sheffield United. I think firstly we need to create more of those chances on the 6 yard line and between the 6 yard and 18 yard line, we didn't really create anything of note bar stevens ball across to odowda and connollys across the box. Looking at that again i thought the keeper seemed to get a touch on it which pushed it away?

[paul_oshea]

Thought it was fine for a first match last night, a score-draw away nothing to sniff at in the circumstances. Lots of areas where we could improve, most notably for me maintaining control of games in second halves. Some encouraging signs there, but I think it's very important to give Kenny plenty of time before judgement are made. I think of all the managers we've had in my lifetime, he's the most in peril of getting written off quickly, especially by the media, owing to where his footballing background is.

He is, so its imperative that he grinds out draws at the very least to keep things ticking over. However we could go the way of Kerr then - minus the negative play. Sadly, he knows it himself, but he needs to see results quickly, by that I mean results in terms of how we play or results in terms of winning games, if we see both that is a massive leap forward. I do think he seemed very downbeat, more frustrated even, in the post match interview, it seemed like he had expected more and things didn't come off as he wanted and we didnt play the way he expected.

[Kingdom]

I have sympathy for Doherty. It is no coincidence that he looked much better when O'Dowda went off.

In the first half when O'Dowda was doing well, he was cutting inside and retaining the ball. He never found Doherty in space on the overlap, not the underlap for that matter. And in the second half Doherty was just isolated.

Stevens and Connolly dovetailed much better on the opposite flank because Connolly was making more dangerous runs both inside and outside the Bulgarian full back and was able to pull narrow when Stevens went outside him.

I'd like to expand on that, because it's important. First 12 mins or so, ODowda got a decent wedge of the ball, but his space was being crowded out by Jeff Hendrick - no blaming him, just stating a fact. Hendrick then very obviously moved more central, which gave O'Dowda a lot more space to attack and take the ball on. And did it well in the first half, but as you say, not once did he utilise Doherty.

Also to be fair to Doherty (as Coleman if he had been selected), one of the primary roles in the new system will be an out ball for Duffy. You can't be an outball if you're 40 yds up the pitch, and Duffy cannot play an accurate forward pass into midfield, so I'm sympathetic towards Doherty.

As you point out the link between Stevens and Connolly when we had the ball was excellent.

[passinginterest]

I think some of the criticism of not having a plan B is a little harsh. How many times have we seen Ireland defend deep with numbers in the central areas and just frustrate the life out of teams? Even those with world class midfielders. It's never easy to play against something like that, and arguably it was the plan B, win a corner and score from a set piece that saved the result.

Out for curiosity I looked for the stats from the 3-1 friendly win against the same opposition. Bizarrely enough, both teams had almost exactly the same number of attempts on goal and we also had the same number of corners and offsides in both games. 59% possession with 90% passing accuracy last night versus 54% and 87% accuracy in the other game.

https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleag...stics/?iv=true

https://www.uefa.com/european-qualif...ia/statistics/

Not sure there's any conclusions to draw from the stats, but thought it was curious. More evidence that the more things change the more they stay the same!

[Stuttgart88]

Bear in mind it was 0-0 in Dublin at HT, Browne took advantage of a goalkeeper spill to open the scoring. We gave away a(nother) soft goal / pen and won with a late (83 mins) header by a CB from a corner, Collins killing the game 5 mins later with a nice goal.

Goals change games & perceptions of games.

[backstothewall]

I amn't disagreeing with your general point, but McGoldrick is hardly a prolific scorer and has found it hard to get on the end of things for both us and Sheffield United. I think firstly we need to create more of those chances on the 6 yard line and between the 6 yard and 18 yard line, we didn't really create anything of note bar stevens ball across to odowda and connollys across the box. Looking at that again i thought the keeper seemed to get a touch on it which pushed it away?

Yeah, but it's all the other stuff he does. On a hunch i googled it and his goal-scoring record is pretty similar to Niall Quinn, albeit with a lot more games played in the 2nd tier than the first (although with the number of foreign imports in England these days the Championship is probably a better yardstick to hold against the old first division than the Premier League).

If the plan is for Connolly to play the way he did last night he should profit from being the closest player to McGoldrick. Kevin Phillips and Robbie Keane scored a lot of goals, but they owed an awful lot of them to the big man beside them with a fair to middling strike rate.

[pineapple stu]

I think some of the criticism of not having a plan B is a little harsh.

Yeah, I think it you're trying to implement a new Plan A, then ditching it with 20 to go for a Plan B isn't the right way. Keep trying to roll out Plan A, even if it means the immediate results don't work out. I mentioned Mick's first tenure earlier in the thread - that's exactly what he had time to do, and it worked very well. Now the Nations League is in in place of friendlies, so it's not as easy. And of course we don't have the players Mick did back in 96

[geysir]

I'd like to expand on that, because it's important. First 12 mins or so, ODowda got a decent wedge of the ball, but his space was being crowded out by Jeff Hendrick - no blaming him, just stating a fact. Hendrick then very obviously moved more central, which gave O'Dowda a lot more space to attack and take the ball on. And did it well in the first half, but as you say, not once did he utilise Doherty.

Also to be fair to Doherty (as Coleman if he had been selected), one of the primary roles in the new system will be an out ball for Duffy. You can't be an outball if you're 40 yds up the pitch, and Duffy cannot play an accurate forward pass into midfield, so I'm sympathetic towards Doherty.

As you point out the link between Stevens and Connolly when we had the ball was excellent.

But you have no sympathy left for Duffy? It all goes to Doherty.

We didn't have a pressing plan, except press until drop.
Bulgaria were set up quite well, similar to Slovakia, though obviously not as proficient. When we managed to disrupt their back 4 trying to play the ball out, they eventually responded with their full backs moving up the pitch 20m or so, leaving the 2 central defender to pick the pass.

[Diggs246]

loving the positivity diggs

Its the hangover from hell speaking

[Razors left peg]

Surprised at so much negativity. If this was previous managers we would have heard all pregame about how tough it is to go away from home and we would have set up to defend. Look at Georgia game in qualifiers where we were even wasting time for a draw.

Far from perfect last night but something to build on. We were positive and kept possession very well. Like others have said I think we were missing some creativity but I think that will improve. We were a bit slow at times too but we are well able to up the urgency.

If Connolly had taken that early chance it could have looked very different. Bulgaria would have had to come out more and Connolly and Idahs pace could have got behind them.

We are used to feeding off scraps with 30% possession and we've been told for years our players aren't capable of holding onto the ball. We had more passes last night that last 3 matches combined so its a good building block. I'd probably start Brady in the 10 role on Sunday, I don't think we have natural player there at moment. Byrne probably the best but he does need to move to be regular in the team

[kennedmc]

Some really good points being made. If O'Shea and Clarke are starting in the premier league, will there be a place for Duffy in that team? It's too easy for teams to just close the other defenders and say to us, if you're going to play out it's going to be with Duffy and we'll close the other defenders. You could see Bulgaria making that adjustment, it's something that I know teams work on, even when they don't have video analysis etc. they'll see which defenders a team likes to play out through and then close off that option and force them to play through the weak links. Kenny will have to weigh up the massive benefits of Duffy both defending and attacking crosses versus his vulnerability in possession.

Doherty definitely looked a bit off fitness wise, and valid point made that he's only back from holiday and just transferred club so couldn't be fully up to speed. I do think O'Dowda did him no favours either by never looking for the overlap. Mick kept making the point on commentary that we weren't trying to get crosses in and that was a factor too, Kenny obviously wanted the front 3 getting it to feet and carrying it into the box or to the end line, rather than looking for the overlapping run and cross. Coleman probably starts against Finland, but expect Doherty to be sharper if he is in there.

I doubt McCarthy starts both games considering he reportedly had bad bruising going into the squad, so an opportunity for Arter most likely in the holding role. Presumably there won't be wholesale changes but things need a freshen up. I'd say McGoldrick will start, Arter will come in, Brady will probably start and maybe Coleman. Molumby might get a run off the bench this time and McClean too.

There's a lot to build on. There needs to be a bit more zip to the passing and craft in the final third if the style is really going to benefit results. I'm expecting and improvement against the Fins and hopefully a nice win.

Great point re Duffy.

[kennedmc]

I was impressed with Connolly - our most dangerous player despite a couple of silly lazy fouls with his arms when he had the chance to put pressure on their defense.

It is a big ask for our midfield to start playing this way given their club performances but suppose we have to give it time. I'm of the opinion J BYrne is not an international level midfielder and won't see any game time once Kenny gets going. While Brady deserves a place in squad also not convinced by him in a central midfield role despite his good set piece.

Think McGoldrick will be hugely important to this team with his ability to control the ball under pressure and bring others into play.

I don't believe in international football we will always be able to play through midfield all the time esp with the way teams press - I'm sure Kenny is not naive enough to think this. Sometimes we will need to go long (not a punt!) and this is where McGoldrick and Connolly and A ANOTHER will be hugely important. (Not sure O'dowda all around game is up to it at this level despite some strong direct running).

[geysir]

Midfield and holding onto possesion was always our bone of contention and now our salvation is to play with 3 up front

When Bulgaria scored, most of the focus went on who made the last mistake, who can we blame, the useless so and so.
The first mistake was the suicidal cross field pass, bad mistakes in midfield can happen but then whatshisnameov received the ball in an acre of space and could deliver the peach perfect pass though the gap between the centre halfs, because we had no covering midfielder who would have been in that space ready to put pressure on him.
The midfield 3 were working on different scripts.
iI the 2 or 3 televised games i saw with Jack Byrne, he likes to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch. To claim he's not of the standard to play against Bulgaria or Slovakia for that matter doesn't make sense.
I think he just doesn't fit into this particular vision of 433.

[passinginterest]

Unless we can identify a pure sitting midfielder with a good passing range, it's beginning to look more like a 4-2-3-1 would suit us better. Particularly in away games. It's a formation that would suit the likes of Jack Byrne more too. Most of the personnel should be capable of working in either shape, I think it could be more fluid once they've had some more training days together. It would have maybe been more effective to have Hourihane and McCarthy sitting a bit more with Hendrick more advanced.

[brine3]

Unless we can identify a pure sitting midfielder with a good passing range, it's beginning to look more like a 4-2-3-1 would suit us better. Particularly in away games. It's a formation that would suit the likes of Jack Byrne more too. Most of the personnel should be capable of working in either shape, I think it could be more fluid once they've had some more training days together. It would have maybe been more effective to have Hourihane and McCarthy sitting a bit more with Hendrick more advanced.

Agreed, I'd play something like this

-------------------Randolph
--Coleman - Duffy - Egan - Stevens
-----------Hourihane - McCarthy
Doherty----------Hendrick----------Connolly
--------------------A. Striker

A good way to play possession-based football without having a giant hole in the centre of midfield.

[seanfhear]

Midfield and holding onto possesion was always our bone of contention and now our salvation is to play with 3 up front

When Bulgaria scored, most of the focus went on who made the last mistake, who can we blame, the useless so and so.
The first mistake was the suicidal cross field pass, bad mistakes in midfield can happen but then whatshisnameov received the ball in an acre of space and could deliver the peach perfect pass though the gap between the centre halfs, because we had no covering midfielder who would have been in that space ready to put pressure on him.
The midfield 3 were working on different scripts.
iI the 2 or 3 televised games i saw with Jack Byrne, he likes to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch. To claim he's not of the standard to play against Bulgaria or Slovakia for that matter doesn't make sense.
I think he just doesn't fit into this particular vision of 433.

Wasn’t McCarthy the covering Midfielder that did not do the Covering. Ok once Hourihane gave away the ball it was easy peasy to go through the Irish Midfield.
McCarthy seemed interested at the start but for some reason he loses interest in playing for Ireland during games ! !

[paul_oshea]

Midfield and holding onto possesion was always our bone of contention and now our salvation is to play with 3 up front

When Bulgaria scored, most of the focus went on who made the last mistake, who can we blame, the useless so and so.
The first mistake was the suicidal cross field pass, bad mistakes in midfield can happen but then whatshisnameov received the ball in an acre of space and could deliver the peach perfect pass though the gap between the centre halfs, because we had no covering midfielder who would have been in that space ready to put pressure on him.
The midfield 3 were working on different scripts.
iI the 2 or 3 televised games i saw with Jack Byrne, he likes to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch. To claim he's not of the standard to play against Bulgaria or Slovakia for that matter doesn't make sense.
I think he just doesn't fit into this particular vision of 433.

This is exactly what I feel too. He has shown already he is more than capable and with better players around he'll be better too as instinctively lads will know where to go, when to run and where to run. I just don't see how he fits into this system. Kenny will be mainly judged and benchmarked against his time at Dundalk and he never utilised this type of player. Whether that's because he didn't have that type of player or he didn't feel it fit in his system is a different question but the fact that Byrne wasn't even included in the squad it suggests the latter.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Was very pleased with the passing and possession but the nature of our equaliser and ultimately the final result shows why there many ways to play football and score, none right or wrong as such and highlights why there are many managers out there like MON Trap and Mick who would have us setting up and playing in a certain way.