Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Tue, 14 November 2017 World Cup 2018 Play Off 2nd Leg

[paul_oshea]

I'm still not over the result because, in the first time I've ever watched us play I felt confident after duffy scored. I think the players got somewhat complacent before the two goals, but even then I felt we'd get a 2nd. And of all the times I didn't want oneill to change it up drastically as I felt we'd get one before half time or shortly after he goes and does it and it spectacularly backfires, he should have been doing this agains the likes of aaustria and Serbia but not Denmark with a star man like Eriksen who can exploit the space and pick his spot to perfection.

[tetsujin1979]

It did work - against Denmark away. I think its been covered here numerous times in the past not just recently, that we only have one tactic and one game plan. It works away from home, because we always just sit back and never lose our shape because we always have a man in behind or ready to run behind another to cover the space. We are experts. Sadly we practiced nothing else, and played nothing else.

And why this? Because O'Neill has this stupid policy of draw away win at home, it backfired on several occasions throughout both campaigns, and then we pulled it out of the fire with strokes of luck, bad misses, oneills , die hard defending and crowding out. We should play the same at all times, but have a backup that we can revert to and experienced in when needs must.

You've mixed in opinion with facts but generally agree with everything you've said above tets.

We won more away games games than home in the group.

[BonnieShels]

We won more away games games than home in the group.

Don't you dare bring facts into this Tets

[OwlsFan]

What are we going to talk about in this Forum for the next 6 months? I will watch who Denmark draw with interest and in particular their venues. As a WW2 Eastern Front aficionado, I had seen myself driving across the steppes like the commander of a Mark IV panzer in a cloud of dust replete with Irish scarf and jersey. Be prepared to hear the sound of wrists being slit in Sandyford if they draw Germany in Volgograd (Stalingrad).

[paul_oshea]

Don't you dare bring facts into this Tests

No but don't pick out one part of a sentence and then go on that. The whole sentence covers the fact that we had that mentality. We had to beat wales away so what? Austria away was the exception - we had no other choice v wales, so he couldn't settle for that. And the approach backfired cos we couldn't win at home. We put too much emphasis on that and too much pressure. We hadn't changed the gameplan sufficiently and then when we really needed to do it we couldn't do it. 4 games and we couldn't win 1. We could only manage to draw two, where 1 team had 10 men for 30 mins, and in the loss where one team finished with 10 men too.

What a stupid statement to be honest, but kinda the silly thing id expect from you BS

[DeLorean]

It did work - against Denmark away. I think its been covered here numerous times in the past not just recently, that we only have one tactic and one game plan. It works away from home, because we always just sit back and never lose our shape because we always have a man in behind or ready to run behind another to cover the space. We are experts. Sadly we practiced nothing else, and played nothing else.

And why this? Because O'Neill has this stupid policy of draw away win at home, it backfired on several occasions throughout both campaigns, and then we pulled it out of the fire with strokes of luck, bad misses, oneills , die hard defending and crowding out. We should play the same at all times, but have a backup that we can revert to and experienced in when needs must.

If O'Neill only has "one tactic and one game plan", then how is his policy to "draw away win at home"? I think the major frustration in this campaign was that he was all too happy to play cagey at home as well as away.

[BonnieShels]

No but don't pick out one part of a sentence and then go on that. The whole sentence covers the fact that we had that mentality. We had to beat wales away so what? Austria away was the exception - we had no other choice v wales, so he couldn't settle for that. And the approach backfired cos we couldn't win at home. We put too much emphasis on that and too much pressure. We hadn't changed the gameplan sufficiently and then when we really needed to do it we couldn't do it. 4 games and we couldn't win 1. We could only manage to draw two, where 1 team had 10 men for 30 mins, and in the loss where one team finished with 10 men too.

What a stupid statement to be honest, but kinda the silly thing id expect from you BS

It was really silly. I did misspell Tets' nickname.

I've fixed it now. Oops. Honestly Paul, your post reads as if Captain Hindsight wrote it. It's hardly that insightful. Especially 3 days later.

And of all the times I didn't want oneill to change it up drastically as I felt we'd get one before half time or shortly after he goes and does it and it spectacularly backfires

I'm just isolating this. I mean really? Anybody watching any game ever would always draw that conclusion wouldn't they.

I have to say, I've missed your absence.

[DeLorean]

Those substitutions would have been footballing suicide against Austria and Serbia too by the way. Let's not make Eriksen out to be the Messi we turned him into.

[paul_oshea]

Del it would have had the same effect though, his finishing was top quality, but I don't think we would have seen that from Austria or Serbia, perhaps they might have finished it off differently. I wasn't saying I would ever have called for those two subs, but normally watching Ireland I always felt we were blunt and needed change at half time. Always, im realistically negative because of how we play. This was the one time I turned to the guy I always go to and say you know its ok, 1-2 is ok, I feel we will get one before half time or just after. I've never ever felt like that under trap or oneill. We could well not have, but we certainly weren't going to with what he had brought on and what he had taken off.

How many times has he made 1 sub, not enforced at half time where we needed a goal? How many times has he done it twice. I think the answer to both is 0. He definitely needed to make 1, but nothing too drastic until 70 mins. If we'd got one in that period up till then, which I felt we could, I think we could have done it.

[paul_oshea]

If O'Neill only has "one tactic and one game plan", then how is his policy to "draw away win at home"? I think the major frustration in this campaign was that he was all too happy to play cagey at home as well as away.

Because we played the same, just we passed it about the back a bit more, but we still sat deep. What we needed was not to sit so deep all the time, with that youre always set out to draw away or not concede and then hope you somehow nick one and the crowd and being at home and everything else works. Out on a wing and a prayer which worked away from home when we nicked the odd goal.

O'Neill will have to look back on himself and say, we should have gone for this when we were in control of the group, and we didn't. And then we we really had to we just didn't know how to. Against Serbia we could have played another 120 minutes against 10 men and still wouldn't have scored, we were blunt up front, oneill acknowledeged as much, and he did nothing to accommodate or work on alternatives - of any kind. It showed against wales, much more against Serbia due to the desperation, and it never got better. He failed.

[paul_oshea]

Those substitutions would have been footballing suicide against Austria and Serbia too by the way. Let's not make Eriksen out to be the Messi we turned him into.

Sorry I kinda messed up the quoting I meant to quote that on first reply. The two subs in itself were not sucidial if he had said to hendrick or brady you must sit back at all times and track eriksen( he has played a part in both goals so you have to ensure he is kept out of the game). And he definitely didn't do that, or brady and hendrick ignored him.

BS its not hindsight i've harped on even since Serbia away they were there for the taking. And i'm still saying the same, and its proven to be our own doing causing our own downfall.

[Closed Account 2]

It did work - against Denmark away. I think its been covered here numerous times in the past not just recently, that we only have one tactic and one game plan. It works away from home, because we always just sit back and never lose our shape because we always have a man in behind or ready to run behind another to cover the space. We are experts. Sadly we practiced nothing else, and played nothing else.

And why this? Because O'Neill has this stupid policy of draw away win at home, it backfired on several occasions throughout both campaigns, and then we pulled it out of the fire with strokes of luck, bad misses, oneills , die hard defending and crowding out. We should play the same at all times, but have a backup that we can revert to and experienced in when needs must.
.

I agree with all of this, you've hit the nail flush on the head. MON is very much of the draw away, win at home mentality; so much so that didn't seem that upset with the draw in Tbilisi. The exception to his approach was Wales away which was essentially a must win game for us, so even MON couldn't accept a draw there. As you've said earlier Denmark are good, but not fantastic side. They have a genuinely great midfielder and a top class keeper, I don't think their defence is packed with talent, in the second leg Christie managed to beat three of them in one move and they were in a state of mild disarray for the first 30 mins or so in Dublin (e.g. Duffy's goal and the 2-3 solid chances after that). The bulk of their defensive strategy is to simply retain possession (on the flanks and in midfield) - MON's abdication of midfield with the halftime subs played right into their hands.

MON seemed to wildly oscillate from a rigid defensive formation to a gung-ho approach at half time. There are two problems with this; firstly it wasn't really that effective (we didn't create that much between the 2nd and 3rd Danish goals) perhaps because he was putting square pegs in round holes (e.g. Hoolahan playing almost as a striker); secondly it was probably too early to be making such a drastic change.

[paul_oshea]

I know when chfh is agreeing with me, I'm making sense

Ever since his Celtic days he has seen McGeady for something he is not. McGeady has never performed for us bar Georgia away with the goals. He is an enigma pure and simple. Flatters to deceive. But Mon thinks when alls lost send on McGeady ,hopes all gone, im desperate Mcgeady will pull it out of the bag for me. Misplace sense of loyalty? No its not even that its just he looked around and hoped he would produce some magic, but this was Denmark not an ailing, tired inexperienced Georgian side. It smacked of severe desperation. The one place where we seemed to be getting at them was down the flanks mcgeady kept cutting inside and losing it at vital times, consistently like he always does. The second one wes, made a lot of sense, so he finally gave in and thought yes I admit it im desperate ye have always been right, get on there Wes and do your stuff. So he mixed his woeful desperation with his one bit of ingenuity that we have and crossed his fingers and prayed to St Anthony.

He could still have made two subs here if he really felt the need, which he did, one being wes and one being long. He could still have kept one of arter and meyler(meyler for me). Its not hindsight its common sense, but Oneill hoped for another miracle and get out of jail card from the most unlikely source. And then yes then when we chasing, maybe still 2 goals bring on someone like say Hogan another striker, or odowda or even mcgeady with 20 mins to go. The problem is if you make that drastic change so early as chfh says then the impetus you have for 15 - 20 mins maybe max, is gone, and then you're all over the place, which is exactly what happened. We created a bit for the first 10 minutes but then lost that impetus and fell apart, people tired, concentration went etc.

I'm not hear for hindsight nor is anyone else, the media etc, but MON is paid to recognise and know the difference.

I hope that this mcgeady performance finally shutups the blinded few on here who think that mcgready offers something.

[paul_oshea]

What are we going to talk about in this Forum for the next 6 months? I will watch who Denmark draw with interest and in particular their venues. As a WW2 Eastern Front aficionado, I had seen myself driving across the steppes like the commander of a Mark IV panzer in a cloud of dust replete with Irish scarf and jersey. Be prepared to hear the sound of wrists being slit in Sandyford if they draw Germany in Volgograd (Stalingrad).

I hadn't thought or planned anything as before September I was nervously cautious, after September I was sure we wouldn't qualify. But thinking about it now I would have loved to have done the transsiberian as part of it and do a full month, even come around by Ukraine down south Ossetia, azbhekia etc. Its always an area ive wanted to travel after south America(which ive been to most of the countries)

[Closed Account 2]

It's a fantastic country I've been a few times and if you're thinking of going I would recommend it 100%. We know it wont be the same without the team there, but there is still a lot to see and do there - and you don't need a visa (normally a big hassle) if you're going to a game.

Also don't forget that Euro 2020 isn't really a proper Euros in terms of venues, it's all divided up in different countries, which is good from "spreading the competition", but means it wont really feel like a tournament you travel to. The WC2022 is in Qatar, about the size of Cork and Kerry combined, its being squeezed into 28 days and will be in November to December. It's only really the next Euros (2024) likely to be in either Germany or Turkey, that will feel like a normal tournament you can travel to.

[liamoo11]

to play that diamond you need a fantastic defensive mid who can pass it and cover the ground and has a defensive mindset and loves a tackle and has discipline and football intelligence which is what McCarthy gives us like against Italy he pushes the midfield forward towards the front men and forces our defence to push up . Nobody else we have can do that job he is a massive loss to us.

[DannyInvincible]

MON is very much of the draw away, win at home mentality; so much so that didn't seem that upset with the draw in Tbilisi. The exception to his approach was Wales away which was essentially a must win game for us, so even MON couldn't accept a draw there.

Even still, O'Neill played a very cautious, low-risk game against Wales that emphasised keeping it tight at the back and holding on for as long as possible whilst hopefully taking whatever rare opportunities might arise. We created very little. We had 29 per cent of the possession, managed two efforts on target and took the one real chance that we got, which came from Welsh sloppiness at the back, or a defensive c*ck-up, really. You could say we were fortunate as the margin for failure was exceptionally fine. Presumably we would have pushed more for a goal as time went on had McClean not scored on the hour-mark, but you still couldn't say we went all-out attack in that game. We were set up as if a draw would have done us.

Here were the average positions of each of our players throughout the course of the Wales game:



Very few of our players spent the majority of the game in the Welsh half; only three did. Admittedly, the players played slightly more advanced than they did against Georgia away (shown below), but the difference isn't huge.

[seanfhear]

After scoring our goal all the talk of how poor Denmark were might have had an effect not necessarily to our advantage .

Has Martin O Neill got it in him to play another style of football ?

Ireland could play something more like passing football for the next year at least . if it is completely apparent that it is not working we can always go back to Plan A .

Who wants to watch that $hite for the next year..........Paint drying is actually more interesting .

[Closed Account 2]

Even still, O'Neill played a very cautious, low-risk game against Wales that emphasised keeping it tight at the back and holding on for as long as possible whilst hopefully taking whatever rare opportunities might arise.
..

I agree, the tactics he used in the Cardiff game were cautious given we needed the win. It was quite attacking by MON standards but cautious under normal measures. It does look marginally more attacking than Georgia away looking at those graphics 8, 13 and 10 are in the oppositions half which must be revolutionary by MON standards away from home. In Tbilisi it looks like only number 9 is in the opposition half, with 19 on the line.

I still think he was a bit overly cautious vs Sweden in Euro 2016.

[Charlie Darwin]

You have a crystal ball into the future?
Monosyllable and dull?
Robbie Keane is one of the most diplomatic speakers I have ever seen. Never gets himself in trouble with the words he speaks.
And the man knows a bit about football wouldn't you say.

"Monosyllable and dull" is code for working class and Dublin. We don't want common people in our sport.