Do we want an all - Ireland team?

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez. I like it when you get irritable.

You wish.

How's the diet. If you lose 25% you'll be able to get into a retro NI shirt I might still have from circa 1980 (think it was size M). Even seen some 'action' with some French students down the local swimming pool when they insulted it. I'll autograph it 'to all my fans on OWC' if you wear it in Tallin. What you're going back on the Rubys?

And you've got it wrong about the Met line. According to my in house Pravda type rag, the punters have never been happier. Said the same when the Central line was b*llocksed last year.

[John83]

Originally posted by davros
Well made point.....an all-Ireland soccer league has got to be somrthing which would improve standards,though appreciate current security & political issues,mainly involving N-E.Ulster!

Hey, how much worse than Homeless Rovers can they be?

[fromthenorthffs]

I was in a bar i probably shouldn't have been the day we played Germany. But i seen the reaction. And the fact is that they hate Germany more than us, cos when Robbie knockedin that equaliser in injury time the place erupted.

All-Ireland can work, provided it gets a new flag, anthem (not the dreadful Irelands call, Field of Athenry would be much better), and the odd game gets played in Belfast.

(or all of them if Lansdowne gets done up)

It works with Rugby cos there is no option, who else you gonna support?? Scotland? Or the side with David Humphreys (MBE) in it? Same with Neil Lennon, Maik Taylor, Aaron Hughes, George McCartney, Chris Baird, Danny Griffin, Michael Hughes, Keith Gillespie, Damian Johnson and Steve Lomas. I mean at least one of them will get in the side whilst Ian Harte is the only left back we have

[lopez]

I don't think the BBC and the Belfast Telegraph would get away with so much of its undoubted Republic bias if it was just Catholics that supported the team. A certain Northern poster on here confided to me that if (and only IF) push came to shove and there was a UK team he'd rather follow the Republic (however if those w*nkers who bring Old Firm sectarianism into Ireland games continue to dominate, then he might think again).

And there are others who I've known who could be termed unionists, who would support the Republic against the English, let alone the Germans. Take the overt republicanism out of an all-Ireland football team, and many - dare I say most - unionists would back it the way they back all other all-Ireland teams. And if they couldn't do that they can always follow the de facto UK XI minus Ryan Giggs along with the wee man, Big Donald, Skelly and the late Grug Gregg RIP.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
To my Hemel friend Lopez:

The foreign country we don't belong to is the Republic of Ireland.
Therefore, we are not going to merge with its football team.

Well according the law as it stands in the UK the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country to the UK but the UK has nor declares no control over the Republic.

Does that mean we can have Keith Gillespie?

[Duncan Gardner]

What law is that. S O'C? Britain recognises Ireland as a sovereign independent country.

I'm quite relaxed about those names, and can't be bothered typing out the formal alternatives

[SÓC]

An Act of the UK Parliament in 1949 (name escapes me now), the very one that recognises Ireland as a sovereign independent country makes specific reference to the fact that whilst the above is true, Ireland is not a foreign country.

All I want is a right sided winger

[nifan]

Id take Damian Johnston instead of Gillespie at the minute, he is incredibly fit, decent speed and can be great at running with the ball. It was great to see him running at the Spanish midfielders with the ball and them resorting to hacking him. He just got up and ran at them again.

[belfastreb]

The last province wide poll carried out by the BBC said there was a majority of people in the North in favour of 1 all-Ireland team (previous polls by the Belfast Telegraph have had nothing in them). I would willing bet if it came to a vote, there would be enough fair and sporting minded unionists for a clear majority in the north. The hardcore Irish league ourweecountry.co.uk bigots that visit these boards are not representative of the general soccer public in the north who have been disenfranchised from following and watching soccer in a neutral sporting enviroment for decades.

[lopez]

Originally posted by belfastreb
The last province wide poll carried out by the BBC said there was a majority of people in the North in favour of 1 all-Ireland team (previous polls by the Belfast Telegraph have had nothing in them). I would willing bet if it came to a vote, there would be enough fair and sporting minded unionists for a clear majority in the north. The hardcore Irish league ourweecountry.co.uk bigots that visit these boards are not representative of the general soccer public in the north who have been disenfranchised from following and watching soccer in a neutral sporting enviroment for decades.

Apparently that poll can be discounted because NI fans would not vote for the dissolution of their team (see DG page 1). Once more possibly the veto of a minority over a majority?

[TheRealRovers]

Originally posted by fromthenorthffs
All-Ireland can work, provided it gets a new flag

Why the Tricolour represents both sides

[belfastreb]

tricolour has been misused up here ..like UJ...stands for something else. Flags not important, and I think the green shirt would help most players get over the dire Irelands Call

[Duncan Gardner]

Lopez. As I have reminded you, in the last formal test of Northern Ireland electoral opinion in November 2003, those supporting the end of partition won 40.5% of the vote. Since, quite obviously, the proposed end of the NI international team would become a major party political issue, it should be obvious that opinion would divide on broadly the lines above. You'd need a hell of a lot of Prods to float into the Lansdowne camp, eh? It's not going to happen.

Davros. I don't normally patronise others' poor spelling, or errors where they "canne type". But in your case I'll make an exception.

Belfast Reb. No-one who wants to watch football in NI has been "disenfranchised". You can watch or support (or indeed, vote for) whoever you like. Be careful of exaggerated claims like that, else Lopez will accuse you of paranoia.

More seriously, and as someone who contributes to both foot.ie and OWC, your comments are unreasonable. If you think individuals are out of order, name them (I'm possibly the most frequent poster among on here). Or if you just don't like the site, I invite you to make contact with specific suggestions. Either way email me at w_mccomish@yahoo.com.

[belfastreb]

I dont want to dig up dirt put football in the north has been preserve of protestant working class. Belfast Celtic and Derry City etc....Ever meet the 'concerned' football residents of Dee Street when going to Oval. Used to go to the odd Glen/linfield game for the "spectacle" of The big two(!?) only to see fans knock bells out of one another yet Cliftonville fans were meet by riot squads if we cheered to loudly.Going to Windsor.. I know Protestants who refuse to take their kids to games there... Yes, things have improved and I admit there are genuine Northern Ireland supporters who mean well but.....

[belfastreb]

As far as OWC goes , I have been banned, i will admit to banter but never sectarianism,I like a joke but I am not an idiot. I was banned yet people who physically threatened me were allowed to stay on... serious double standards i think. On a football level one of the biggest injustices, i have ever wittnessed(and this is saying something, being an oppressed Celtic supporter) was the time Linfield lost to a free kick that should not have been given against FC Coppenhagen and robbed me of seeing AC Milian Van Basten and all in Belfast, it stiill hurts. I think as someone who loves the game its awfully bad luck to live in the worst place to watch quality football in Europe

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez. As I have reminded you, in the last formal test of Northern Ireland electoral opinion in November 2003, those supporting the end of partition won 40.5% of the vote. Since, quite obviously, the proposed end of the NI international team would become a major party political issue, it should be obvious that opinion would divide on broadly the lines above. You'd need a hell of a lot of Prods to float into the Lansdowne camp, eh? It's not going to happen.

The end of the Northern Ireland team would become a major party political issue? Hmmm? Looking on your own site (Inspector Knacker of Operation Ore said that I can look but not join and post messages like 'anyone for sweeties?' or 'would you like to see my puppies?') I see that someone has kindly put up the various opinions on a BBCNI programme called 'Let's Talk'. Four politicos (Barbie DeBrun(SF), Carmel Hanna (SDLP) Dermott Nesbitt(UUP) and Daniel O'Donaldson(Whatever takes his fancy this week)) offered their opinions with Dermott Nesbitt apparently saying 'a united team worked for the rugby so mabye (sic) it would for the football.' I've yet to watch the programme which is available on line (it's over an hour) so I can't judge what exactly he did say, but we can gather that it was hardly 'no surrender' stuff.

A lot of Prods into the Lansdowne camp? Like the lots of Prods that come down for the rugby matches. Tell me DG, do Ulster rugby clubs (I've yet to see one without the UJ outside it unlike my local one which doesn't feel the need to put one up) have difficulty getting rid of their international tickets? Because, if so, I think I'll join one to get some of these hard to find items. Derek Dougan is not a nationalist and if you read any of his books he is not a supporter of an all - Ireland state. Neither is this bloke Nesbitt, although today's Tribune has an article of a Coleraine councillor and former RUC policeman - cum - Seven Day Adventist preacher going Chucky ar la la, so anything is possible.

The issue of an all-Ireland football team is totally different than an all-Ireland state. Reasons are: It's sport; The governing body would be shared equally between both communities; the success of an all-Ireland team in other sports (Ireland European rugby champions in anything but name in 1983 and 1985 while losing out narrowly in 2001 and 2003) is an attractive feature; its acceptance in every other sport except athletics, particularly in sports with strong unionist participation like cricket and rugby (not just in shinner sports) also suggests that opposition would not be so strong among unionists. The BBC opinion poll was an effort to find out the feeling in NI in general. Perhaps it is time for a more sophisticated poll done by MORI or their rivals to see if just 40% would be in favour.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/forum...pic.php?t=1498

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/letstalk/

[IrelandUnited]

Duncan I admire the sense and reason of your posts on here. I am a southern FAI man myself but it seems on this site there is an element who define bigotry as":that which is not in the perceived interest of the FAI and its fans!"

Many in the GAA are "bigots" for wanting to choose their own tenants. Surely a right of any property owner.

Unionists are bigots for wanting no part in an Irish republic they do not vote for or in its football team they want nothing to do with.

As for referring to Norn Iron s beggars I have seen my association trawl england for grannies and a stadium to play in so say no more.

I actually have a bit of time for NI. I used to support you v England in the Home Internationals and hope you bounce back. if in future you want to join us then great as well.

[lopez]

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Many in the GAA are "bigots" for wanting to choose their own tenants. Surely a right of any property owner.

Then don't coming asking the proposed tenents its turned down for money for home improvements. (Government grants funded by the tax payer, many if not most would like to see the money currently being spent and wasted on redeveloping Lansdowne Road employed in bolstering the Irish health service)

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Unionists are bigots for wanting no part in an Irish republic they do not vote for or in its football team they want nothing to do with.

A fine example of free state education.

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
As for referring to Norn Iron s beggars...

Er its you that 'Norn Iron' call the beggars

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
...I have seen my association trawl england for grannies and a stadium to play in so say no more.

Trawling? What teach mor have you just been released from IU? Its simple. Irish citizenship can be obtained through one Irish granny and, what is known for us plastics trying to get our kids on our passports, a 'foreign birth certificate.' Granted someone with just one granny isn't necessarily Irish - in particular if he's been supporting England since he got into football - but that's the rules. The FAI doesn't trawl. In fact someone informs the FAI that so and so is interested in playing for Ireland because of his granny, and away you go. No kidnapping. No bribes. Just a mutual arrangement.

Same with the North. British passport entitles NI cap. What bugs me is the double standards by NI, Scotland, Wales, the Tans, their unfunny media, and now you, is that the FAI are 'begging' when they pick someone with one quarter or one eighth Irish blood (or indeed with 100% Irish blood but who happened to be born outside the 26C) but that it's perfectly sporting when the four British nations pick players with no British blood, let alone blood from any of the four 'nations' they plan to represent. Where in Britain was John Barnes granny from? Where in Britain was the granny of the nineteenth century English cricketer the Maharajah of Vizianagram, born?

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
I actually have a bit of time for NI. I used to support you v England in the Home Internationals and hope you bounce back. if in future you want to join us then great as well.

Good luck in beating the Tans, DG.

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by lopez

The issue of an all-Ireland football team is totally different than an all-Ireland state. Reasons are: It's sport; The governing body would be shared equally between both communities; the success of an all-Ireland team in other sports (Ireland European rugby champions in anything but name in 1983 and 1985 while losing out narrowly in 2001 and 2003) is an attractive feature; its acceptance in every other sport except athletics, particularly in sports with strong unionist participation like cricket and rugby (not just in shinner sports) also suggests that opposition would not be so strong among unionists. The BBC opinion poll was an effort to find out the feeling in NI in general. Perhaps it is time for a more sophisticated poll done by MORI or their rivals to see if just 40% would be in favour.

It's sporting politics. Football is the most popular sport in Ireland and worldwide. Here as elsewhere it's closely linked to a wider sense of identity.

Since, quite obviously, you are trying to merge the NI team out of existence, its governing bosy wouldn't be "shared". You are hoping for a takeover, not a merger.

I look forward to a scientific study as you suggest.

PS to Davros and Belfast Reb. Actually for once you are being too generous to me. I barred Davros from OWC- three times- because you continue to post sectarian abuse here in a way that suggests you would inevitably also do so there. Cut that, and you can return. Reb- ditto, respect the house rules and you can return. If you want to raise anything else, contact me direct as I said. You may have noticed that OWC has been much more self-censoring this year

PPS Ireland United. Thanks for the kind comments, but you need to carefully distinguish between your own opinion and where you accuse others of intolerance- at first reading it isn't clear.

Armada Verdeblanca!

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
It's sporting politics. Football is the most popular sport in Ireland and worldwide. Here as elsewhere it's closely linked to a wider sense of identity.

So you are admitting that NI is also a political choice, something that many will dismiss as the same when Northerners follow us and hence the demand that people 'play or support the 'country' you were born in'?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Since, quite obviously, you are trying to merge the NI team out of existence, its governing bosy wouldn't be "shared". You are hoping for a takeover, not a merger.

This would be the case indeed. While the Republic and the FAI (if both associations joined under a new banner or simply reunited under the IFA) would be no more, a reunited IFA might possibly move to Dublin - but then that's democracy. The shift in football means more players and clubs in the Republic than when the two associations split - and we would be left with 'Ireland' which would suit all nationalists and irredentists like myself. However there would be nothing to gain for the apolitical 26C football fan. Hence you MAY get a majority of NI public voting for it but MAY NOT get the 26C public voting for it.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I look forward to a scientific study as you suggest.

So do I. BTW I'd be interested in your take on Mr Nesbitt. Hope you are just too busy and not avoiding answering what was clearly an ambiguous declaration that this Unionist MLA/MP would not stand in the way of a 32C team.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
...You may have noticed that OWC has been much more self-censoring this year.

It certainly has become more censored to the point that while it was at the top of my 'history' it has moved down a bit due to it discussing more football matters and less on what the 'beggars' are up to. Still I liked that internal tiff between the 'believers' and the 'non-believers' over matters of dogma (like el perrito loco, I am a believer). Nice to see my old mate research boy showing that one doesn't have to believe in the big man upstairs to be a bigoted a*rsehole.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Armada Verdeblanca!

To it being 32 county.