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Thread: Arkagas Ability Under Scrutiny

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    Capped Player A face's Avatar
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    Arkagas Ability Under Scrutiny

    Arkaga recently made the decision to sell Meyler to Sunderland for €180k, a youngest who made only 3 first team appearances while at the club. Meyler still had three years left on his contract at this time so this decision was obviously going to be questioned by the City faithful.

    Now they have been made an offer for Dave Mooney, a player at the club at the opposite end of the scale as regards value. The offer is the same price as Meyler yet he is top score in the league.

    If Mooney is in a similar goal-scoring form to Roy O'Donavon last season, who went for somewhere in the region of €500,000, as well as finishing as the League's top scorer in 2007 with the side that finished rock bottom (something lacking from O'Donavon) and who's contract is 5 times longer, then Mooney's value should be €2.5M plus. Of course our financial situation would cut the price down by a bit, but 90%???

    Are Arkaga about to prove they are not capable of running a half time raffle, not to mind a football club?

    A company that boasts a huge portfolio of investments are just about to get done over? Do all their other 'investments' come under scruinty now and viewed with scepticism as opposed to credibility?

    Are this company about to lock, load and shoot themselves in the foot?

    What good have to actually done for Cork City FC? Have they behaved like fumbling idiots since they got to the club?
    Last edited by A face; 19/08/2008 at 11:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A face View Post
    If Mooney is in a similar goal-scoring form to Roy O'Donavon last season, who went for somewhere in the region of €500,000, as well as finishing as the League's top scorer in 2007 with the side that finished rock bottom (something lacking from O'Donavon) and who's contract is 5 times longer, then Mooney's value should be €2.5M plus. Of course our financial situation would cut the price down by a bit, but 90%???
    No club will pay over €1m for an eircom league player, especially one at a club that is in debt.

    Doyle has done very well at Reading. However, O'Donovan struggled at Sunderland and now he's been loaned out to Dundee United. Alan Bennett was another big signing by Reading and he hasn't made a league appearance for them, afaik. He has been told by the club that his future lies elsewhere.

    This will mean more caution when signing EL players. There is the risk that they'll struggle, like O'Donovan and Bennett, or they might (less likely imo) succed like Doyle. While I do believe Mooney is better than O'Donovan was and has better stats than Doyle, Reading will still be cautious and won't want to take another heavy loss a la Bennett. IMO they won't be dragged into a bidding war.

    Then, Cork could be in examinership soon and any decision on player sales could be taken out of Arkaga's hands. The examiner will want to cut costs and try to get in any money therefore they are more likely to accept the first bid that comes along.

    Also, the transfer window is closing so Cork won't have too long left to stall or jack up the price. Reading hold all the cards in this move.
    Quote Originally Posted by A face
    A company that boasts a huge portfolio of investments are just about to get done over? Do all their other 'investments' come under scruinty now and viewed with scepticism as opposed to credibility?
    Good point. Their other companies should be looked at if they are being mismanaged in the same vein as Cork are.
    Quote Originally Posted by A face
    What good have to actually done for Cork City FC? Have they behaved like fumbling idiots since they got to the club?
    Ploughing €2.4m into the club and still not clearing their debts, despite other financial returns, is definitely a bad sign.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    Ploughing €2.4m into the club and still not clearing their debts, despite other financial returns, is definitely a bad sign.
    There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.
    If they're overstating the figure to look "generous" and "commited", then it reflects very poorly on their financial management.

    If they're understating the figure, they have even worse financial management problems.
    Last edited by superfrank; 19/08/2008 at 5:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.
    I think it is quiet likely they have spent 2.4m but that takes no account of the revenue i the same period. It doesn't take a very intelligent journalist to question that figure. It implies they have already lost 2.4m & have a further 800k in debt which would lead to an unbelieveable annual budget.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    If they're overstating the figure to look "generous" and "commited", then it reflects very poorly on their financial management.
    No, it reflects very poorly on journalists in this country to take everything they're told at face value and not query it.

    I may well be wrong, but we only have Arkaga's word for it that they've put in E2.4m. I reckon they've put in nothing. Makes more sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    No, it reflects very poorly on journalists in this country to take everything they're told at face value and not query it.
    It was reported by the national public service broadcaster through their main football correspondent (a supposed Cork fan) on MNS last night. I don't think it's falsified.

    I really don't see how Arkaga can make a statement like that and have any good PR come out of it. It reflects very badly to say "We've spent €2.4m on the club and yet we've managed to run into debt".
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I reckon they've put in nothing. Makes more sense.
    The numbers are certainly more likely to add up that way. They budgeted on 1m loss & look how much the current debt is or was reported to be before recent settlements...

    BTW such is the scale of some debts they must have been building all season & gate receipts only used to pay wages. As a club the wages for highly paid CEOs gone our books too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.
    Will the accounts of Cork City Investment Fund (that's the name of the company that apparantly own the club?) ever be made public?

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    The numbers are certainly more likely to add up that way. They budgeted on 1m loss & look how much the current debt is or was reported to be before recent settlements...
    Would the cost of running the club be over €3m (€2.4m invested + €800k debt)? If wages are 65%* they would be max €1.56m. This isn't even taking into account sponsorship and transfer fees received. I could well be way off here but I think I make that running costs for the year roughly €4m if the figures of €2.4m invested and €800k debt are correct. €4m seems a bit high to me...

    EDIT: just saw on the sports news that total debt is €1.3m. Changing my above calculations (which I must stress I don't have much faith in ) running costs would be around €4.5m. It would actually be a bit higher as I didn't include the usual sources of income like gate receipts and sponsorship when doing the 65% wages thing.

    *does this include backroom staff?

    How much debt did Cork have before the start of the season? I thought some of the creditors weren't owed all that much so maybe Arkaga are chancing that they would be written off as bad debts.
    Last edited by DmanDmythDledge; 19/08/2008 at 6:29 PM.

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    Still nowhere near the 65% mark yet no ???

    The FAI are some f**kers!!
    Why bring in rules if certain clubs don't have to play by them.

    I blame the FAI for this mess. They never have the balls to nip anything before it gets out of control. Cork have themselves to blame of course but if the FAI are serious about the league they would have stepped in long before now.

    Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.

    If they were serious about the 65% then the monthly accounts of Cork would have showed signs they were in trouble months ago.

    Nonsense!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by higgins View Post
    I blame the FAI for this mess. They never have the balls to nip anything before it gets out of control. Cork have themselves to blame of course but if the FAI are serious about the league they would have stepped in long before now.
    Must have imagined them placing transfer embargos on a few clubs not that long ago...

    There's not much the FAI can do other than ensure that the rules and regulations of the league are not being broken by the clubs. Apart from the 65% wage cap they can not control what the clubs do with their money. As Fran Gavin said on MNS Arkaga got Cork City into this mess and are the only ones that can get them out of it. The FAI have been proactive on this issue this season so I don't know why you would think they would turn a blind eye to Cork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge View Post
    *does this include backroom staff?
    It is my belief that the 65% figure including coaching staff & possibly off the pitch staff (not 100% sure of this). If coaches were not included would be too easy to fudge the books.

    It was interesting to hear Fran Gavin say Galway had breached the 65% rule. It was my belief that once clubs exceeded 55% the FAI intervened & sanctions including points deduction if went past 65%.

    It also now appears Arkaga written guarantees of the debts is not worth the paper it was written on. Fran Gavin also said that if they did not following true on that guarantee they don't get licence next season. That is hardly much of a sanction as if you don't pay debts you won;t be around next season.

    As always it is the fans that get screwed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by higgins View Post
    Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.
    Not really, the smaller clubs have a lot less to lose by stagnating.
    A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    It was reported by the national public service broadcaster through their main football correspondent (a supposed Cork fan) on MNS last night. I don't think it's falsified.
    That is a very generous description .... Mellor from Liverpool to City .... end of

    The National Broadcaster at times is nothing better than a tabloid. They wheel out Alan Hunter for every National Team debate ..... the title National Broadcaster might carry some weight, but the sports dept. for that company are nothing short of a horror story at times.

    I hate saying but i am ashamed of our National Broadcaster

    I really don't see how Arkaga can make a statement like that and have any good PR come out of it. It reflects very badly to say "We've spent €2.4m on the club and yet we've managed to run into debt".
    They dont really care how it reflects, all you have to do is believe it ... you are doing this .... so move on with the rest of your day.

    They couldn't organise a raffle ..... i dont believe that have had other investments with a happy outcome, i think they are a bunch of chancers and are getting away with murder.
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by higgins View Post
    Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.
    Not a ****ing hint of irony either
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge View Post
    Will the accounts of Cork City Investment Fund (that's the name of the company that apparantly own the club?) ever be made public?
    Yes, in due course when they're filed with the CRO. It probably wouldn't go into as much info as how much Arkaga put in though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Not a ****ing hint of irony either

    Yes Dodge!
    Because I was Ollie Byrnes number one advisor

    Get over it.

    He f**ked up, he got punished, the rest of us are dealing with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A face View Post
    That is a very generous description .... Mellor from Liverpool to City .... end of

    The National Broadcaster at times is nothing better than a tabloid. They wheel out Alan Hunter for every National Team debate .....

    Quote Originally Posted by A face
    They dont really care how it reflects, all you have to do is believe it ... you are doing this .... so move on with the rest of your day.
    Bull****. No company wants bad PR, especially one with many other interests like Arkaga has. They have sent Cork backwards and saying they've large amounts of money is going to refelct badly on them.
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    Capped Player A face's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    Why confused SF, you said that you were willing to believe anything the RTE say? I explained why i wouldn't? Wheres the confusion?

    I will say that you probably are not familiar with Noel Spillane so i'll leave that slide. But if you run with two pages, one of which is the whole freaking back page that City are about to sign Mellor from Liverpool without checking it then how can you believe anything from a guy who is talking about this situation, a guy who isn't even on talking terms with anyone at the club who can furnish any information worth printing. Players wont even talk to the guy at this stage.

    Bull****. No company wants bad PR, especially one with many other interests like Arkaga has. They have sent Cork backwards and saying they've large amounts of money is going to reflect badly on them.
    If you believe what they are saying then you have no problem, ignore what i am saying and drive on, no worries ... have a nice day now !!

    I dont believe they have all these 'other interests', i think they are a bunch of cowboys and i reckon we'll all see that when we find out the other companies they have been dealing with at the end of this examinership. Google with be our friend SF, but you are a believer so ignore this paragraph
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    Debt up to 1.3m now with 370k in tax. Fairly clearly Arkaga haven't put a penny into the club since they took over.

    The new CEO was quoted as saying tax (PRSI) bill was paid in July. Clearly he was being very economical with the truth.

    Have to wonder what the FAI accounts boyos have been doing especially in relation to the taxes...
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