feelings regarding roy keane

[John83]

Originally posted by Greenbod
Wrong. He actually faked "non-injury" in his eagerness to represent his country. There is a big difference. He made himself available to play despite being injured. Admirable. It was the manager's job to look and decide whether he was fit enough.

Sorry, yes I ment that he faked fitness. While his eagerness to play is commendable, he betrayed McCarthy's trust by lying to him about being fit, and he then let down his country by playing in the place of a fit player.

Besides, your counter-argument neatly ignores his encouragement of similar behaviour in Kennedy.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by John83
Sorry, yes I ment that he faked fitness. While his eagerness to play is commendable, he betrayed McCarthy's trust by lying to him about being fit, and he then let down his country by playing in the place of a fit player.

Besides, your counter-argument neatly ignores his encouragement of similar behaviour in Kennedy.

If a player "fakes fitness" and gets away with it, then his manager is at fault. Have you ever heard of fitness tests?

I don't know anything about him encouraging Kennedy so didn't comment on it. What's your source on this? I'd like to hear what he actually said to Kennedy.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by patsh
A footballer wants to get back from injury to playing again and it makes you feel like a :
True Patriot ?
Proud to be Irish?

You've been listening to far too much George W Bullsh*t boy.

I didn't say it makes me feel like a true patriot. I said McAteer's stated desire to play for his country and it being the highlight of his career was spoken like a true patriot.

And yes, to hear an Irish footballer (especially one not born here) speaking like this does make me proud. Sorry if you don't understand this feeling.

There are many forms of patriotism and pride in your country. I don't see what this has to do with George Bush, not being one to listen to much he has to say, but perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Bush has said recently which could be linked in any way to my post...................




Boy.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by Conor74
Folks folks folks...

McAteer? McCarthy? Irwin? Kennedy?

And don't forget Bush!

[carnstein]

Originally posted by John83
I don't, and won't forget what Keane did for the NT, but I won't let that get him off the hook for everything he does.

What the hell did he "do". He didn't do ****e. He demanded perfection, perfection which was imperitive for the deliverece of success. Our manager was a muppet who couldn't see that we had a squad capable of challenging for the World Cup. Keane saw it the way it was, he was the only one with the intelligence to know we had a chance. He was dumped because he was brave enough to be ambitous. He did not walk out on Ireland, Ireland was not couragous enough to walk with him.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by carnstein
He didn't do ****e.

Correct. The rest of the team played in a World cup followed by Euro qualifiers. He didn't do ****e.

[scouser]

Originally posted by carnstein
What the hell did he "do". He didn't do ****e. He demanded perfection, perfection which was imperitive for the deliverece of success. Our manager was a muppet who couldn't see that we had a squad capable of challenging for the World Cup. Keane saw it the way it was, he was the only one with the intelligence to know we had a chance. He was dumped because he was brave enough to be ambitous. He did not walk out on Ireland, Ireland was not couragous enough to walk with him.

A rite, just got back from the Blackburn game at the weekend, and to put it simply, I am quite disgusted by the amount of,well ya know, ****ty that has been put against the lad Keane. Everytime he took the field for us, he wore the green,white and gold shirt with great pride, that of a liverpudlian. Quite frankly, I cannot understand where this is all coming from. He has been a great servent to the game and the lad carnstein there has summed quite well imo.

Ta,
Scouser

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Greenbod
Correct. The rest of the team played in a World cup followed by Euro qualifiers. He didn't do ****e.

Who the hell got us to the World Cup. Its obvious to anyone who watched the games. In a group with a couple of no hopers like the Swiss and the Russians, our current batch are struggling.

If you can't acknowledge what Keane did for Ireland you are obviously deluded.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by carnstein
Who the hell got us to the World Cup. Its obvious to anyone who watched the games. In a group with a couple of no hopers like the Swiss and the Russians, our current batch are struggling.

If you can't acknowledge what Keane did for Ireland you are obviously deluded.

Yes. Keane made a hugh contribution to our qualification to WC2002 as part of a team. NOT ON HIS OWN.

It's really insulting to the other players to claim that Keane got us to the World cup. It's simply not true. What about Richard Dunne's performance in Amsterdam against Kluivert (If Kluivert had scored we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim Dunne got us to the World cup? McAteers TWO goals against Holland (home and away, if these two goals hadn't been scored we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim McAteer got us to the World cup? Holland and Kinsellas midfield performance away in Estonia when Keane wasn't playing (If we hadn't won that game we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim Holland and Kinsella got us to the world cup? The answer of course is that they all contributed. Some are STILL contributing.

Yes. Our current batch are struggling. But our current batch are PLAYING! I will support my national team win lose or draw and I don't waste my time pineing for someone who used to be good for but is no longer bothered.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Greenbod
I didn't say it makes me feel like a true patriot. I said McAteer's stated desire to play for his country and it being the highlight of his career was spoken like a true patriot.

And yes, to hear an Irish footballer (especially one not born here) speaking like this does make me proud. Sorry if you don't understand this feeling.

There are many forms of patriotism and pride in your country. I don't see what this has to do with George Bush, not being one to listen to much he has to say, but perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Bush has said recently which could be linked in any way to my post...................




Boy.

If you can't see for yourself that the sentiments you expressed are overblown hyperbole, how can it be explained to you?
Mr. Bush, and his coven, have a habit of calling anyone that agrees with them a "patriot", thus completely devaluing the word and stripping it of any meaning.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by patsh
If you can't see for yourself that the sentiments you expressed are overblown hyperbole, how can it be explained to you?
Mr. Bush, and his coven, have a habit of calling anyone that agrees with them a "patriot", thus completely devaluing the word and stripping it of any meaning.

"Overblown hyperbole"! Well done, you've just managed to strip another two words of any meaning.

If you don't understand the sentiments expressed because Mr Bush has stripped them of any meaning for you , then don't bother commenting.

Have you anything to contribute to the topic being discussed by the way?..... or has Mr Blair or Mr Hussein stripped the whole thread of meaning for you? .................................................. .........................................boy!

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Conor74 You see folks, in carnstein's world, courage means quitting a football team and walking out. [/B]

The main arguement of the anti-roy keane brigade is that he walked out, he is a traitor, blah-blah-blah. When your main arguement is not even valid, it shows that you truely are an idiotic deluded fool. He was SENT HOME. Get it ****ing right. HE DID NOT WALK OUT. His country walked out on him. If he was supported we could have won the World Cup, but that is ambitous, not what you would call a typical trait of an Irishman.

Why should we settle for second best, Roy Keane's problem is that he was a winner, managed be someone who was happy to settle for honourable defeat.

[ger121]

Keane was right/not right to go home.

McCarthy was right/not right to send him home.

We would have won/not won the world cup if he had stayed/not stayed.

We miss him/do not miss him.

Ireland has moved on/not moved on.

Now I hope that's all covered/or not covered.

and can we move on/not move on to something else

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by Conor74
I know, why don't you make up completely stupid, baseless, irrelevant and pointless remarks about the Irish people to support a point about Roy Keane?

Sorry, I see you've started already.

Again, I have sourced the whole Roy Keane walkout/quitting saga above and would suggest you check them out. Again, I would reiterate that I am referring to what happened before the meeting, not his subsequent dismissal. Is there a collective amnesia here, or did you just forget a whole day of news surrounding his walkout (again, I stress, before the infamous meeting) to suit your own arguments?

Conor, It's useless. Some people just have a complete blindspot when it comes to HRH Roy Keane. It's bordering on the obsessive. Maybe there's a sexual element involved?

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by ger121
Keane was right/not right to go home.

McCarthy was right/not right to send him home.

We would have won/not won the world cup if he had stayed/not stayed.

We miss him/do not miss him.

Ireland has moved on/not moved on.

Now I hope that's all covered/or not covered.

and can we move on/not move on to something else

I have to agree with everything you've just said.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by carnstein
.....but that is ambitous, not what you would call a typical trait of an Irishman......

Conor 'n Greenbod:
I don't actaully agree with Carnsteins point wrt to Irish people in general. But it is IMO it definitely applies to the FAI who played a large role in this farce.
I've been following Ireland and the LOI for a long time and have never witnessed much ambition from anyone going abroad, either to european ties as a club or to Euro/WC championships as a country (up until very very recently).
It drives me mad, I'm old enough to remember Turkey being the whipping boys of every Group qualifiers, and sat back to watch them get to a WC semi final.
In the last WC Turkey, Korea, Japan, USA all got further than us, and what i still think was one of the worst German sides I'd ever seen got to the final.

We should have long since passed the crap we come out with "oh isn't it great to be there for the occasion", and stop turning the Phoenix Park into a love fest after we consistently fall at the second hurdle.

We should be looking to challenge now (realistic or not) and we do lack ambition. What has that got to do with this debate,

Keane was used to winning at Manchester United, he saw how that could be achieved, starting by a professional approach, McCarthy and the FAI since '88 were used to enjoying the occasion and being too greatly rewarded for it to actually take the next step.

The timing couldn't have been worse, and as i've said before i was on Keane's side (since you had to take one) but i wish both he and McC had been men enough to put it aside for three weeks.

Ambition and attitude might not be the fundamental point of the argument but it contributes to understanding it.

[patsh]

Now Conor, you can hardly use the opinion of two people, Giles and Lawrenson, as to what was going on in a third persons mind, as any sort of basis for an argument.
As for describing a change of mind by a player about playing for Blackburn and opting for Man U instead, as "dishonest" is really stretching it. I do not know any details of the contract, but wasn't that the time that Blackburn were throwing money at everyone to become one of the "big" clubs in England, so I doubt if the money would have been any object. Isn't it possible that a player decides to go for the club with more chance of success on the playing field?
As "we'd be dismissed as contrary b*****d", isn't it generally accepted that RK is just that, a contrary bast*rd?
Looking at the title of the thread, I have to say that when I think abut it, I have no feelings about him at all, anymore. TBH, I'm slightly embarrassed when I look back and see how the whole country, no matter what side of the divide you were on, carried on last year, over what was essentially a trivial matter.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74



Is there a collective amnesia here, or did you just forget a whole day of news surrounding his walkout (again, I stress, before the infamous meeting) to suit your own arguments?

But Conor are you forgetting Nearly never won the race. he didn't walk, he went to but didn't for what ever reason weather his own, flights or persuasion he didn't walk, he was on an Island covered with water, Now I don't think he's in the same class as Jesus Christ as the walking on water thing was out but if he walked it wouldn't of mattered if he was on the Island or not, he wouldn't of been on the team. There was more room on the Island to put Roy Keane, he didn't have to leave the Island to leave the team. If he had left the team it wouldn't matter where in the world he was he would not have been part of the 22.
This point of just cause he couldn't get off the Island he stayed is not really that plausible. If McM did not want Keane there it wouldn't of mattered where Keane was.

Also look at ALL the newspaper reports from that day and the only thing that is conclusive is the press had a whiff of a story and then made the rest up. Your memory is selective, he was going because of his Family, a report in the Sun, not fit, had a break down these all were bantered around on that day.

Why don't you take what Fai Keane and McM have to say??? Surely they were there, because the Press certainly were not there.
You taken the word of the Press by the looks of it.

Hearsay is what you use, the FAI Keane and MCM all say the same thing that he did not quit that he was fired. yet Gilies and Lawernson have a different view now come on Conor are you honestly taking hearsay above the printed word of the Three parties involved., the basis of your argument is he left.

I am not saying Keane is God,
I don't believe he should be on the team anymore as no matter whether McM was right or wrong Keane shouldn't have screamed abuse at him Just as McM should of been sacked
I do think he let himself and his team down by blowing his top.
I've never said he's not a spoiled little child wanting it all.
I don't think he mother Therese.
But I do think he was Fired.


Conor what worries me on this is you are always returning to rumour yet the information from the parties involved they have all said he was fired, which is now in print is always ignored in preference for sensationalism.

Do you honestly think this just started on the Island??????

[thecorner]

Originally posted by Conor74
I mean, there are a lot of myths that have grown up about Keane. Dunphy likes to say he is honest. Kenny Dalglish would say he was dishonest and reneged on Blackburn for the money at Old Trafford

the money man utd offered RK was lees than the contract offered at blackburn

i mean if u had a choice between these two clubs who would u pick

[thecorner]

yes he did and no hes not a fool

any player in the world would turn down blackburn for the likes man utd,arsenal etc...........