Dean Kiely? Steve Staunton? Retiring from International Football whilst still playing for their clubs.... Or are they different because they're (relative to Keano) sh!te?
Was Alan Shearer wrong to retire from international football? Was Bryan Robson? Any number of people who make the decision based on extending their club carreers.... Are they traitors to England? Or are they highly respected for what they did do when they were playing?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Originally posted by Macy
Dean Kiely? Steve Staunton? Retiring from International Football whilst still playing for their clubs.... Or are they different because they're (relative to Keano) sh!te?
Was Alan Shearer wrong to retire from international football? Was Bryan Robson? Any number of people who make the decision based on extending their club carreers.... Are they traitors to England? Or are they highly respected for what they did do when they were playing?
..fair point but the big difference is they didn't walk out on their country as captain in the World Cup finals.
'any longer for his country. 'Originally posted by Greenbod
I don't forget the games where he played. He is a great footballer. I don't believe anybody doubts that. He is blessed with an amazing talent. He has chosen not to use that talent any longer for his country. He is perfectly entitled to make that choice just as I am entitled to criticize him for it.
I disagree with your hospital analogy. The difference between going into a hospital to visit sick children and playing football for your country should be obvious. Anyone can visit a hospital, you must be selected to play for your country ie given the honour. I do respect him for the good charitable work he does (along with many others), but in terms of the national team and football (what this forum is all about), I have no respect for him or his choices.
He'll always have the talent that will never change no matter how old he is.
So it would be okay for the Irish team to dispose of him when they no longer needed him. Whare is the honour in that.
He was there and his manager promised him all the things would be done right, they were not.
does that make him dishonourable????
My point was honour comes in many different forms, he may find it more honourable in the path he has taken.
What I was pointing out was how can you judge if he was honourable. He was lied too, stabbed in the front and back
Also everyone bar Kerr and his coaching team remained the same at FAI so why should he beleive AGAIN that things would be different.
Once biiten twice shy.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
I think your first statement above shows your blind spot with regard to Keane. Of course talent fades with age otherwise Noel Cantwell and John Giles would still be playing for Ireland.Originally posted by Dricky
'any longer for his country. '
He'll always have the talent that will never change no matter how old he is.
So it would be okay for the Irish team to dispose of him when they no longer needed him. Whare is the honour in that.
He was there and his manager promised him all the things would be done right, they were not.
does that make him dishonourable????
My point was honour comes in many different forms, he may find it more honourable in the path he has taken.
What I was pointing out was how can you judge if he was honourable. He was lied too, stabbed in the front and back
Also everyone bar Kerr and his coaching team remained the same at FAI so why should he beleive AGAIN that things would be different.
Once biiten twice shy.
You use the term "dispose of him when no longer needed". I wouldn't put it quite like that but yes a time comes in every players career when theres a better option in their position. This hasn't happened with Keane yet.....but he doesn't want to play.
With regard to your FAI point, well the same goes for every player who ever played for Ireland. I doubt that when the players don the jersey they think they're doing it for the glory of the FAI. They just persist and get on with the football regardless of the administrators. Are they ALL stupid for doing this? Perhaps they're just made of sterner stuff than Keane.
I don't think either of our opinions are going to change on this.
So be it.
"Can I have a Kit-Kat, chunky?"
"you mean a big one"
"No a normal kit-kat you fat bitch"
I refer you to the answer you gave a few moments ago....Originally posted by Countyman
..fair point but the big difference is they didn't walk out on their country as captain in the World Cup finals.
I supported him blindly during the WC and beyond praying that McCarthy would be gone by the time the Qualifiers came.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
whether I supported him or not has no bearing on the comparisons you made and its those comparisons that I had issue with.
If Keane had played in the WC i dont think there would have been such a big fallout from his "retirement"
Maybe because he was coming back from injury and he probably shouldn't have played the first game either....Originally posted by Conor74
Still, noone has managed to find a good reason why he contrived with McCarthy to fake injury to miss a critical game for his country.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
The reason for Roy Keane's 'resurgence' this season, which has seen him back to his old self, has been largely due to the fact he's retired from the International scene according to Alex.
"Taking away his international duties has given Roy Keane an opportunity when he can get a break.
I like the break he got in the USA? He seems to have played
more competive matches this summer and improved for it.
His 'break' last Summer didnt do him much good.
You don't get fit resting - you get fat. The Man U physio will tell you that. (Or ask Gaza).
Once you start taking breaks your joints seize up.
He was good 'n all but at no stage was he better than Zidane 'n co. He may have been a great defensive midfielder but remeber its always easier to destroy than create...Originally posted by Dricky
He played in the Irish Shirt for Ireland and was the best international midfielder at one stage.
Competitive matches or pre-season friendlies? So if he'd stayed in England, done the same pre-season training in Carrington, and then played english based pre-season friendlies that would've been okay? The fact that they did exactly the same build up in a different country obviously proves Fergie doesn't have a valid point.....Originally posted by tricky_colour
I like the break he got in the USA? He seems to have played
more competive matches this summer and improved for it.
His 'break' last Summer didnt do him much good.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Oh no. Not again.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Lads I don't know anywhere where I have seen it proved that Roy Faked injury. He says he didn;t McCarthy says he did.....hmmmmm.....that to me isn't conclusive.
If you look back over the years when he was captain he turned up for and played almost all our friendlies.
let go of the straws lads... he is gone why berate him
he made a choice ..one we all mightn't agree with but one we should accept.
He was class and is still class and he was one of us.
remember he was the team captain and it was the team that left him alone in saipan to find his own way home..that was disgraceful out of mcCarthy...he deserved better than that.. someone from the fai should have been with him until he got to Manchester
Bring back the plank
YEP RUN AND RUN
Only one person has come up with the injury thing and that is McC, no one else has backed this u, there is no proof even from McC.Originally posted by Conor74
Dricky, what's with the whole "he did more for his country then you did" line? Frankly, if kicking a ball around a field is considered as doing something for your country, then yes I concede he has kicked more footballs around more fields than I have. It seems a strange way to judge someone's merit. As a matter of curiosity if I was a doctor and I saved a life today, an infinitely more important act than playing for Man U or Ireland, would you then permit me to pass judgement on Roy? Do you stand at football matches and urge the crowd not to disparage the opposition, after all who are we to judge? ... ¨
If you were a doctor then your loyalty is to your creed, to save a life not to a country.
But just to complete this, yes saving a life is more important than playing for Man u or Ireland, likewise putting your own sanity and your family before Man U and Ireland is infinitely more important wouldn't you agree? If so, what has he done wrong?
Still, no one has managed to find a good reason why he contrived with McCarthy to fake injury to miss a critical game for his country. Now, I can't honestly gauge how much I may have contributed to the Gross Domestic Product of this island compared to Roy, but that makes him a p**** in my eyes...
If it was contrived as you stated earlier, with McC and Man u well then McC lied, that or he didn't have the guts to say this was arrange, no he pulled it out at a press conference and in front of the team mates accused him of faking. Doesn't strike you as two faced?? That’s just if what you've said were true.
There is more to Roy Keane than football, do you think he finishes his game of footie and then goes home.
You cannot deny he does a lot of good things outside of football. A lot of stuff is kept private, I’m sure as most people would keep their chariitable donations /work private, I’m sure Roy Keane is no different.
You are attacking a man purely on Football and if that is the case he only deserves to be judged by his fellow internationals and the Irish team.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
Do you not accept the US Games are pre-season, same as playing stoke or shels or whoever? An essential part of pre-season training, so can we just forget this bull about them being some pseudo replacement for qualifying games when friendlies are clearly a different matter?
Worthington Cup - Firstly he plays very few games in this competition, and again how is this a replacement for qualifying games? It is a club competition, albeit not the highest on a club like Uniteds list, but a third ranking domestic competition that qualifies for Europe...
What games has Beckham travelled to in which he hasn't been part of the squad that could come on, bar the world cup when he played later in the competition? If their not fit they should be with their clubs recovering...
Why is it so hard to comprehend that the medical advice he recieved was it would be better to have those 6 trips time to recover and recuperate? Read the quotes - he had a days off for R&R... It's not like he's had no major injury problems is it? I knew you were a spin doctor, didn't relise you were a medical doctor as well....
Staunton's a traitor too obviously as he's still playing domestic football but not international football - he who has had no major injury problems in his career (AFAIK and certainly not on the same scale).... Sure once he can play for his club, he must be able to play for his country - it's only 6 games isn't it?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
First he's 31 not in the prime his days were numbered on the team, jump before the push. he put his career first there is nothing wrong with that.Originally posted by Greenbod
I think your first statement above shows your blind spot with regard to Keane. Of course talent fades with age otherwise Noel Cantwell and John Giles would still be playing for Ireland.
You use the term "dispose of him when no longer needed". I wouldn't put it quite like that but yes a time comes in every players career when theres a better option in their position. This hasn't happened with Keane yet.....but he doesn't want to play.
With regard to your FAI point, well the same goes for every player who ever played for Ireland. I doubt that when the players don the jersey they think they're doing it for the glory of the FAI. They just persist and get on with the football regardless of the administrators. Are they ALL stupid for doing this? Perhaps they're just made of sterner stuff than Keane.
I don't think either of our opinions are going to change on this.
So be it.
You can say that Keane wants to win and he would rather not do it if he felt he couldn't win. Maybe he felt he couldn't win with the FAI ever, he gave Kerr a chance to pitch but still couldn't be convinced he could win if he was playing on all fronts,, so he didn't return. But KKeane is the only one who knows why he did retire.
Your right we may never agree but then it is just a game of football, judge him as a person and I think you may find your views would not be as harsh on him.
Last edited by Dricky; 12/09/2003 at 2:22 PM.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
Denis Bergkamp, Alan Shearer, Dominic Matteo...
...need I go on?
Sadly it's part of the modern game.
Maybe the Football Associations should look after their players a bit better. We all know the FAI has been run by cowboys in the past. Only time will tell if things improve. Roy Keane owes us nothing.
Have Boot Disk, will travel
Never said he was the betterI said at a time he was the best.Originally posted by pete
He was good 'n all but at no stage was he better than Zidane 'n co. He may have been a great defensive midfielder but remeber its always easier to destroy than create...
then Zi Zu came along, you cannot say roy doesn't demands the best from those around him that would elavete him above and co.
Harder to lead then be led.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
i just cant understand anyone who refuses to play for their country.
I like everyone else was touched by the pride shown by the athletes in the special olympics on wearing their irish colours.
Whereas keane fell foul of every manager(international) he played under.
he deprived colin healy of a place in the squad and let his country down badly in a world cup that was there for the taking.
you want legendary?
try sonia o sullivan,john treacy just 2 in a long list of irish sportspeople who are/have been proud to wear the green of ireland.
"tight? he's the kinda guy that eats baked beans on tuesday so's he can have a bubble bath on wednesday"!
Medical advice people...it's worth listening to.
Plus, if you read the interviews from ~ 2 months ago, Keane doesn’t even know if he will be up to playing in 12 months time.
He's got to take care of himself.
As for his willingness to play pre-season games with MUFC:
Strolling around a pitch in the US is a lot easier than trying to dominate midfield in a European qualifier, so let's forget that argument too.
This is just begrudgery. Typical Irish reaction. No thanks for all the good. Instead we criticise him. We didn't appreciate Jame Joyce ("Ireland is the sow that eats her farrow") and we haven't appreciated Roy. Some things never change.
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