Cork City Examinership

**sligo1** · 15/08/2008, 7:28 AM

I think the FAI have to take the blame for this one-I thought by sending in your figures every month would show whether a club was in breach of the 65% rule or not.Whatever deficit was there at the end of a month,that club should have lodged that amount to bring the figures back up to date.
To be honest the guarantee is not really worth that much-if Arkaga had the money they would have paid the debts and not let it go this far.
Is there any penalty for not paying your players or Revenue on time?

The bottom line is players are getting paid too much money.

**Calcio Jack** · 15/08/2008, 8:02 AM

Originally Posted by sligo1

I think the FAI have to take the blame for this one-I thought by sending in your figures every month would show whether a club was in breach of the 65% rule or not.Whatever deficit was there at the end of a month,that club should have lodged that amount to bring the figures back up to date.
To be honest the guarantee is not really worth that much-if Arkaga had the money they would have paid the debts and not let it go this far.
Is there any penalty for not paying your players or Revenue on time?

The bottom line is players are getting paid too much money.

From what's appeared in the media so far, I'm of the opinion that the so called legal agreement that the FAI have referred to ,won't be in any way enforcable... sure Arkaga might have buckets of cash...but methinks that the company which signed the 'legal' agreement is not Arkaga but a separate company (a subsidary of Arkaga)...and I'm guessing that company hasn't got a red cent, will be wound up shortly leaving a mass of debt.... anyone got any info to contradict my theory ??

**brianw82** · 15/08/2008, 8:13 AM

It just goes to show that if the sugar daddies pull out, the "big 4" are screwed.

There needs to be a radical financial rethink, and the FAI must show leadership in making it happen. Wages MUST be brought down.

**Magicme** · 15/08/2008, 8:23 AM

To be honest I cant think of any player in the league who is worthy of more than €1000 a week. The average industrial wage is around €680 a week so why should they get paid much more than that as "full time professionals"? I may be wrong coz just guessing butbBetween training, media/CPO committments and games they would only really "work" about 30 hours a week anyway so why give them big money.

Its time all players were played realistic wages so clubs can survive.

**OneRedArmy** · 15/08/2008, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's unfortunate for Cork and their fans, but ultimately it's good for the league that this nonsense comes to a halt as soon as possible. Properly run clubs are getting ridden rock solid by clubs like Cork; hopefully that'll start to change. Not holding my breath just yet though.

Better to have tried and failed than not tried at all.

Obviously clubs need to be held to account and if it leads to extinction then the gamble (pardon the pun) has totally failed.

But I don't seem to remember many fans (including yourself) complaining too much in the coefficient threads over the past 5 years, when you were living vicariously through the successes of other clubs, which, with the benefit of hindsight, would appear almost totally down to unsustainable spending.

The subtext that I read in your post is an "everyone should be like UCD" mantra. Whilst that would probably be the most sustainable model, by God would it be boring.....

**Steve Bruce** · 15/08/2008, 8:44 AM

I think I would prefer to work within our means and hope to build up revenues to a point where my team can comfortably sustain a fully professional outfit. Shelbourne Gambled, it failed, Cork has gambled and it looks like it is failing.

The LOI is ahead of the IL and whilst we are not exactly rolling in money, our clubs are far more stable off the field than our counterparts in the LOI. If the LOI doesn't change it's ways, the majority of the league will go bankrupt and that would damage the product so badly that you may never get the crowds your hoping to attract.

**sonofstan** · 15/08/2008, 8:53 AM

8 pages in and nobody has attempted a joke about the 'Cork Examiner' yet....

**HarpoJoyce** · 15/08/2008, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by sonofstan

8 pages in and nobody has attempted a joke about the 'Cork Examiner' yet....

It's the one they call the Pauper

**OneRedArmy** · 15/08/2008, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The LOI is ahead of the IL and whilst we are not exactly rolling in money, our clubs are far more stable off the field than our counterparts in the LOI. If the LOI doesn't change it's ways, the majority of the league will go bankrupt and that would damage the product so badly that you may never get the crowds your hoping to attract.

I must have dreamt that Omagh had a team once and of course Coleraine are a rock of financial stability.

Off the top of my head, over the last 10 years, the Irish League is firmly ahead in winding up orders.

**passinginterest** · 15/08/2008, 9:44 AM

Interesting article in the Independent tries to shine some light on who are the owners of Cork City?

It all sound like it could get very messy.

**pineapple stu** · 15/08/2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Better to have tried and failed than not tried at all.

Surprised it took eight pages for someone to come out with one of the larger idiocies of the league, to be honest. "At least they tried" - well whoop de ****ing doo. Tried what, exactly? Pretending they were something they weren't? Going out of business? "At least they tried", IMO, is up there with "You're just obsessed" in the list of stupid retorts on this forum and shows that some people have no idea about running a football club.

You're right, though, that I do enjoy seeing the league do well in Europe; it's a bit of double think on my part. I'll gladly hold my hand up there. When I heard Pat's had come back from 2-0 to draw last night, I was happy, but it is obviously tinged with the knowledge that this simply can't go on and, as I said on the other thread, I can see the league going to back to how it was ten years ago, European results and all.

And if the "UCD model" bores you (and what a pathetic excuse to commend overspending), maybe you should call it the "Shamrock Rovers model"? Whatever way you call it, it is what clubs in the league have to aspire to.

Cork's troubles (assuming the dark predictions come true) have set the league back in more ways than just losing one of its best teams on the pitch. Players are going to think twice times before coming to Ireland now, which will weaken the league. People who wonder why a player would go to Accrington Stanley instead of coming home have the answer right in front of them.

**Steve Bruce** · 15/08/2008, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I must have dreamt that Omagh had a team once and of course Coleraine are a rock of financial stability.

Off the top of my head, over the last 10 years, the Irish League is firmly ahead in winding up orders.

Omagh still have a team, Omagh United.

Omagh, was a strange one, they had less than 100 supporters (a lot less) and punched above there weight. They relied on Linfield and Glentorans gate. They have been out of the league for quite some time now.

Coleraine are going from strength to strength as is most of the rest of the league.

We have seen overspending in the IL during the 90s, but since then the league has strived to improve off field standards. We are doing that and we are more financially stable now with less crowds than we where 10 years ago with more crowds.

But as you have isolated a couple of teams in the last 10 years. How many in the LOI has went to the wall/or near it and how many are in a very precarious position?

A hell of a lot more than in the IL that's for sure. Not to mention your own club that relied upon a local MP to get big fixtures to bail you out. Too bad institute don't get the same benefits. Wrong side of the river thoguh

But if the 2 clubs in the last 10 years in the IL, one folding the other nearly makes you feel all bubbly inside that's your outlook.

My point though is the IL is a lot more financially stable. That is not to say we don't have the odd bad egg but on the whole we are in far better standing that the LOI and we generate far less revenue to boot.

This just shows you how much the LOI is gambling on it's long term health.

My views might not be popular, but I think some people needs to look outside the bubble that some are in. The IL has many problems and I have been able to see them and give constructive critisism.

Maybe you should try to be a bit more constructive instead of starting a point scoring exercise.

**Steve Bruce** · 15/08/2008, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Surprised it took eight pages for someone to come out with one of the larger idiocies of the league, to be honest. "At least they tried" - well whoop de ****ing doo. Tried what, exactly? Pretending they were something they weren't? Going out of business? "At least they tried", IMO, is up there with "You're just obsessed" in the list of stupid retorts on this forum and shows that some people have no idea about running a football club.

You're right, though, that I do enjoy seeing the league do well in Europe; it's a bit of double think on my part. I'll gladly hold my hand up there. When I heard Pat's had come back from 2-0 to draw last night, I was happy, but it is obviously tinged with the knowledge that this simply can't go on and, as I said on the other thread, I can see the league going to back to how it was ten years ago, European results and all.

And if the "UCD model" bores you (and what a pathetic excuse to commend overspending), maybe you should call it the "Shamrock Rovers model"? Whatever way you call it, it is what clubs in the league have to aspire to.

Cork's troubles (assuming the dark predictions come true) have set the league back in more ways than just losing one of its best teams on the pitch. Players are going to think twice times before coming to Ireland now, which will weaken the league. People who wonder why a player would go to Accrington Stanley instead of coming home have the answer right in front of them.

The thing that surprises me is the fact people are saying 'at least they tried', they wheren't saying that when it was Shelbourne. It was more like 'Slap it up them'.

**pineapple stu** · 15/08/2008, 10:26 AM

I think there was a bit of an "At least they tried" attitude when Shels went belly up too. Though that may have been from Shels fans. Ollie Byrne in particular was disliked, which made it easier to have no sympathy.

**OneRedArmy** · 15/08/2008, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Cork's troubles (assuming the dark predictions come true) have set the league back in more ways than just losing one of its best teams on the pitch. Players are going to think twice times before coming to Ireland now, which will weaken the league. People who wonder why a player would go to Accrington Stanley instead of coming home have the answer right in front of them.

But surely the point is the fact that we can't lure them back anyway as the wages are unsustainable.

Cause/effect?

In terms of the league being set back, surely its only been set back to the level it would've been at anyway, effectively a reversion to the mean. If we assume the wider man on a barstool doesn't care either way, then the damage done is limited only to the clubs directly affected.

As for your poo pooing of the speculating to accumulate approach, I'm not surprised as you clearly have a fundamental problem with the link between risk and reward.

**pineapple stu** · 15/08/2008, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

But surely the point is the fact that we can't lure them back anyway as the wages are unsustainable.

Even those we could afford are going to have serious reservations.

As for your poo pooing of the speculating to accumulate approach, I'm not surprised as you clearly have a fundamental problem with the link between risk and reward.

What reward is this?

**Sheridan** · 15/08/2008, 10:35 AM

Any club which aspires to the UCD model shouldn't be in serious football. At some point you have to speculate to accumulate, there are more sensible ways and means of doing it than those generally pursued by eL clubs, but it's absolute rank idiocy (the type which should be punished by sterilisation, where necessary) to suggest, to use the mantra of cretins, that football clubs should be "run like businesses." The point of a business is to make money, no eL club will ever be a serious investment option. The more appropriate analogy is with the finances of a state. Sometimes you have to take measures which they didn't teach in Accountancy 101. This should never involve paying players four times their worth, though, as it does currently.

**pineapple stu** · 15/08/2008, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Any club which aspires to the UCD model shouldn't be in serious football. At some point you have to speculate to accumulate

Oh, the irony coming from a Dublin City fan is delicious!

Are you telling me you learned nothing from your club's existence, and would do it all again?

In 20 years' time, this league will be a wreck of dead, debt wracked clubs and us (and Rovers) will be winning everything. Course the fans of said dead clubs will be saying that it's purely because the league wasn't sustainable or some other ridiculous, brain-dead cliche.

**Sheridan** · 15/08/2008, 10:46 AM

Everyone knows that in the event of nuclear winter, cockroaches would be the only creatures to thrive. But who'd want to live in a world of cockroaches, except a cockroach?