Ireland to play at Parkhead?

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by James
exactly
ppl seem very bitter at the GAA for pulling off a big coup and getting the govt to shell out alot of money for the revdeveloped croker..fair play to them.. its a great fcuking stadium and one of the best in europe..

if the FAI cant lever that kinda money from the govt then it not the GAAs fault !

Its a typical Irish attitude to take Im afraid!

One of my mates was upset as he has a family and is still waiting on a council house
His atttitude was that the "*******" are getting all the houses.
When I asked him if it shouldnt be the government and local authority he was angry with as they are the ones that introduced and run the current housing policy he starred at me blankly!

I feel the LOI crew are acting in the same way, instead of giving out cos the GAA managed to get one over on the government
they should be trying to see how the GAA pulled off the stroke!

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
None of which takes away from the fact that yer average league of Ireland fan is as narrow minded as the ruling body of the GAA only as yer average GAA fan in the street doesnt really care if soccer is played in GAA grounds or not.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion

Thing is, we know what the GAA thinks, and thought. If the 'average' (ie majority) fan thinks otherwise, they can change things. As they did re the Brit ban. But as they haven't done re Ireland internationals at Croke.

Whereas we don't know that the typical Eircom League fan is as bad. We're only taking your (anecdotal) word for it

[Dodge]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
I feel the LOI crew are acting in the same way, instead of giving out cos the GAA managed to get one over on the government they should be trying to see how the GAA pulled off the stroke!

In fairness you'd be hard pressed to find an eL fan who thought the FAI were great for not getting those grants. It doesn't take way from the fact that the GAA is a bogotted organisation.

No foreign sports unless its American Football

[patsh]

Originally posted by lopez
Imagine a world where the wages, from Roy Keane and Damian Duff right down to the lowly part timer, were taken away by the FAI? No need for any 'big coup' or levering then.

The anti-GAA lobby is getting increasingly desperate in it's attempts to somehow link the success of the GAA to the lack of a stadium for soccer.
What wages?
EVERY GAA player knows he will not be paid for playing.
Even if they were, would the so-called wages pay for ALL the stadiums the GAA have built in this country?
Virtually every GAA club in this country has a decent ground, clubhouse, bar and range of social activities for ALL age groups and gender.
Instead of the usual few ranting about the "bigotry" of the GAA, maybe soccer people should take a long hard look at how the GAA is such an incredible success, take some steps to do some of the things that garnered that success, and get off their as*es and do something.
The FAI was shafted by Ahern, he shouldn't be given the chance to do it again. Build our own stadium, and get the money from American Football, Rock concerts and anyone else who wants to pay the rent.

[liamon]

Originally posted by Conor74
Please quote the source of the study or the evidence to back this up, I would be interested. Unless of course it is all based on your opinion. Or maybe that of your good friend who thinks the word "n****r" is acceptable. You sound like such an open and understanding bunch of guys.

Maybe he's referring to the scientific study recently published in that eminent scientific journal – “The Evening Echo”, which clearly proved that all CCFC fans were racist.

[John83]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Seems to me they are in good company then with your average league of Ireland supporter who looks down his nose at someone who supports a "foreign" team from "across the water".
Bigots the lot of ye!

Bigots the lot of ye? Ye, incidentally, is not a word.

I'm a LoI fan and I also follow English football. To a lesser extent, I follow Italian and Spanish football. I dislike the GAA as an organisation, but occasionally watch hurling and used to play both codes. At one time, my playing of "soccer" would have had me banned from the GAA, though I'm lucky enough to live in a society that's slightly less tolerant of such bigotted ****e. I admire what the GAA have built, and wish the FAI were that organised.

But whatever I am, I'm not a bigot, you narrow-minded twit.

[Bluebeard]

Originally posted by Dodge
No foreign sports unless its American Football

Or Boxing - Ali in '74!

I think that a colleague of mine hit the nail on the herad when I was rarging with her about the ban. She described it as a ban on "English sports" the whole time, and when I corrected her that it was supposed to be a ban on foreign sports, she grumbled before accepting that it was the case. This is what a large problem at Croker is - "English" games.

I seem to recall that right up until the late 1970's, early 1980's the ban on GAA players playing "Foreign" sports was enforced, but as far as I can remember, it was only ever Rugby and Soccer that were punished. Roscommon player Dermot Earley was "Lieutenant Late" when playing rugby for the army. George O'Connor of Wexford hurlers got into a similar pickle when playing rugby after the ban ended - there was a lot of speculation over whether he should be let play for the county I am told. Yet how many basketball players, athletes and so forth have played and won medals for their county teams.

I don't begrudge the GAA their stadium. I enjoy Hurling greatly. I think that Croker is a fabulous ground, and as impressive as most European stadia, including the Flansiro. Yet I don't think that we will see the ground given to us, even to rent. To be honest, I don't really want us to get it, as I don't think that it is particularly productive to allow the Government or the FAI away with their responsibilities. While pointing at and blaming the GAA is fun, and an easy target, they only did what the FAI should have. They stuck to their guns and got themselves a classy stadium. That is their business.

Similiarly, in the ideal world where the Blues own Kilcohan, I wouldn't like to see the Waterford Senior Hurlers, the under 21 footballers, or the Waterford Ladies Gaelic team - all teams I like to see do well - renting the ground from us. I can't see the Cork squad having a disagreement with that after the loss of Flower Lodge.

The FAI had us under the impression that there was a serious probability of eircom Park happening before the government came in with their bluff and bluster. So, as I see it, either the government owe us an explanation, or the FAI do - we, the fans, have been short changed.

[liamon]

Originally posted by John83
Ye, incidentally, is not a word.

Is "Ye" not the plural form of "you"?
Or should we all be using the phrase "youse" like the Dubs?

[Junior]

Originally posted by liamon
Maybe he's referring to the scientific study recently published in that eminent scientific journal – “The Evening Echo”, which clearly proved that all CCFC fans were racist.

I remember a similar study, I think it also proved the theory that all Celtic supporters have a fond affinity with stools of the Bar variety and were unable to identify opposition players due to their high levels of 'muppetness'

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Junior
.....and were unable to identify opposition players due to their high levels of 'muppetness'....

I remember the Clinical trials, it was a Pavlovian experiment where a highly trained PA announcer waved an unsuspecting Great Dane in front of them, and they Salivated, then booed.

As for the Croker debate, I think Patsh is right. There are aspects of the GAA which I dislike, but credit where it's due, Croker is as good a staidum as any I've seen, and better than most.

But to be fair, a lot of the money that went into it came from receipts at intercounty games, a fund raiser we don't have as of yet, and we pay the players. But it's true we'd be better off looking at how they did it and try to emulate it rather than complain.

The argument that were we to move into Croker that we'd never build a soccer stadium is valid too. We just need to get our act together.

[liamon]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the GAA.
To much in-breeding for my liking.

But, I do admire the stadia they have built and the way they have paid for them. Croker may have been built with some tax money, but there are other stadia that were built through local community fund raising and hard work. Go to Thurles and you'll find a pretty decent stadium, paid for largely by loal fundraising and a series of concerts held there around 1990.
The GAA may have got some money from the government, but the bulk of the cash has come from the fans over the past 100 years.
They paid for the pitches, so they should not be under any obligation to share with any other sport, esp one that threatens to steal their young players and turn them into soccer players.

Aer Lingus got plenty from the government over the years, should they have to supply planes for Ryanair?

[Macy]

Originally posted by tiktok
But it's true we'd be better off looking at how they did it and try to emulate it rather than complain.

The argument that were we to move into Croker that we'd never build a soccer stadium is valid too. We just need to get our act together.

We did, we had the plans but got screwed over by Bertie and his FF/PD cohorts..... No funding for eP, promised riches for going with the state funded bertie bowl....

It's a total fallacy to say that FAI didn't have their act together on this - it simply wasn't possible without Government support, just as the redevelopment of Croker wouldn't have been....

[liamon]

Originally posted by Macy
We did, we had the plans but got screwed over by Bertie and his FF/PD cohorts.....

To be fair to the PDs - I don't think they ever promised to support eP.

Bertie on the other hand..............

[tiktok]

that's fair enough Macy, I realise that the whole Bertie Bowl agenda scuppered the FAI, and after they'd laid out quite a bit of money.

But we can't use landsdowne at full capacity for the WC qualifiers, the Bertie Bowl was further scuppered by the PD's which as liamon points out is something they should have foreseen, in any case, it's not going to happen and it's left the FAI high and dry. All i'm saying is that they need to get the plans in place to do it themselves, and maybe look to the GAA for ideas.

[Macy]

It's a FF/PD government, so they are both to blame and as leader of that Government Bertie carries most of the responsibility....

Considering our esteemed leaders couldn't see (or wouldn't let on) that the country was fooked, how do you expect the FAI. I have no time for the muppets of merrion square, but on this issue they are not the ones we should be pointing the finger at.... Its the muppets a few hundred yards down the road that must carry the can....

[A face]

Originally posted by Conor74
Jesus lads, is the failure of the FAI to acquire a home over the past 100 years the fault of Bertie Ahern in 2001? Or is this yet another chance to have a go. Sure it's a shame we don't have a stadium, it's a shame the FAI botched their own plans through mismanagement and personality battles, it's a shame they pinned their dreams to the hope of a National Stadium which was always far from a certainty, it's a shame they forgot to look for any security in lieu of their agreement to become the anchor tenant. If Bertie had sold them magic beans for a cow, would everyone here still absolve them of blame? The failure of the FAI to obtain a stadium rests with the FAI, no matter how trendy it is to blame Bertie Ahern. If eircom Park was seriously viable, we would have been spared the years of toing and froing before the idea was eventually strangled.

Point taken but they were being pushed into a corner through the whole affair. The "aircraft" not being able to fly out of Baldonnel was one of the best yet, Bertie and co. were up to all sorts at the time and some of it we'll probably never hear about.

I personally think the FAI and IRFU should ignore any offer the gov. make and strike on with their own project.

It would be more in line for Bertie to sort out all the loose ends of all the tribunals and reports that have been going on in recent years.

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by Conor74
That's a really good point Lionel. Please quote the source of the study or the evidence to back this up, I would be interested. Unless of course it is all based on your opinion. Or maybe that of your good friend who thinks the word "n****r" is acceptable. You sound like such an open and understanding bunch of guys.

You really are the saddest individual Iv come across in a while Conor74!
My comments to the guy were to suggest to him that he might be directing his anger in the wrong direction and that he should be more understand to others.

Get a life pal but if thats not possible at least read the post properly.

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by John83
Bigots the lot of ye? Ye, incidentally, is not a word.

I'm a LoI fan and I also follow English football. To a lesser extent, I follow Italian and Spanish football. I dislike the GAA as an organisation, but occasionally watch hurling and used to play both codes. At one time, my playing of "soccer" would have had me banned from the GAA, though I'm lucky enough to live in a society that's slightly less tolerant of such bigotted ****e. I admire what the GAA have built, and wish the FAI were that organised.

But whatever I am, I'm not a bigot, you narrow-minded twit.

Hey if LOI supporters are allowed brand all celtic fans as bigots I think its only fair that I be allow to point out some of your own shortcommings, even if its only to prove to you lot that you are infact only human and not perfect as indeed some of you seem to think!

BTW I wont make personal insults against you as to be honest it seems like a childish exercise which Il leave in your more than capable hands!

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
blah blah blah anyone's fault but FF blah blah blah

Conor, Bertie could (should) have pumped in the €50 million into eP that would've seen it built by now....

It wasn't botched plans - One stadium would've been viable, but with the Government insisting they would go ahead with Stadium Ireland regardless, and with no money for eP, the FAI had no choice..... You can build it up all you want as the FAI's fault, put whatever spin you want on it but we were screwed by the Government.

Lansdowne Road was fine, temp seats were fine - it was UEFA changing the rules that necessitated the need for a new stadium, so how is that the FAI's fault? They had the plans, all they needed was the backing and some funding from the Government - which they outright refused to do.

Interesting that the money that they are willing to give the FAI/IRFU at this "time of economic prudence" is over 3 times the amount that the FAI were requesting for eP in a time of economic boom......

[patsh]

Originally posted by Conor74
I think Bertie should have shut down a wing of Tallaght hospital and built the stadium regardless. In a time of economic prudence we need our white elephant sports projects...

Amazing the way an FFer can spin anything.
We are talking about the time when Champagne Charlie was telling everyone to "party on". There was going to be a velodrome, golf academy, you name it, FF were going to build it.
Some labs in the way?
No problem, heres a few hundred million, move them.
The phrases "white elephant" and "economic prudence" were being bandied about all right, but it was by Labour, Fine Gael, economists and, to use your leader's own phrase, "creeping Jesuses".
Unless you have finally converted to Lab or FG, Conor, that only leaves two options for you. When did you become an economist?

Originally posted by Conor74
Jesus lads, is the failure of the FAI to acquire a home over the past 100 years the fault of Bertie Ahern in 2001? Or is this yet another chance to have a go. Sure it's a shame we don't have a stadium, it's a shame the FAI botched their own plans through mismanagement and personality battles, it's a shame they pinned their dreams to the hope of a National Stadium which was always far from a certainty, it's a shame they forgot to look for any security in lieu of their agreement to become the anchor tenant. If Bertie had sold them magic beans for a cow, would everyone here still absolve them of blame? The failure of the FAI to obtain a stadium rests with the FAI, no matter how trendy it is to blame Bertie Ahern. If eircom Park was seriously viable, we would have been spared the years of toing and froing before the idea was eventually strangled.

The FAI should have had their own stadium years ago, nothing will change that.
However, no matter what way you try to spin it Conor, when they did have plans for a stadium and were going to do it themselves, it is a fact that Ahern in particular bribed, cajoled, pressured and did everything to make sure it would not go ahead.
The grants for soccer, which the FAI are fully entitled to, became dependent on their support for Abbotstown, then, all of a sudden, we hear of the utterly spurious notion that flights from Baldonnell would be endangered, and money would flow to the FAI coffers from the stadium itself. All of this at a time when FF were botching their own plans through mismanagement and personality battles.
Ahern still wants this satdium, still won't let it go.
FAI are to blame for years of dithering and utter incompetence, but when they did eventually try to get their act together, they were shafted by the all time master of dithering and incompetence.