The 2008 Olympics Thread

[OwlsFan]

Disappointing result. I am not sure there was as much bias as the panel claimed. Let's be honest: with the Chinese guy at home they were always going to claim bias whether it existed or not. What I would like to see is a slow motion of the shots where the Chinese guy scored to see if they were all genuine. Sure some of Egan's good shots didn't count but one could also say the same for the Chinese.

Question: the panel said the Chinese guy made Egan come on to him. Why did Egan have to come on to him? Could he not have stood back as well and waited for the Chinese boxer to come on to him? Why did he have to go forward?

[Dodge]

Because he was losing from early on.

[shakermaker1982]

I'll have to watch a replay of the fight but I'm pretty sure the Chinese lad was getting points when in fact Egan was landing?! It's all part of amatuer boxing but it still hurts. Egan will be sickened for the rest of his life. I've seen some shocking verdicts following amatuer boxing over the years but at the Olympic games they need to get it right. Club shows and blatant robberies go hand in hand but in front of a world wide audience? Have they not learnt their lesson from 1988 and the Roy Jones saga? Now we hear that the ref's/judges were 'assigned' and not random........hmmm sounds dodgy.

[Big Ears]

I am not sure there was as much bias as the panel claimed. Let's be honest: with the Chinese guy at home they were always going to claim bias whether it existed or not. What I would like to see is a slow motion of the shots where the Chinese guy scored to see if they were all genuine. Sure some of Egan's good shots didn't count but one could also say the same for the Chinese.

Question: the panel said the Chinese guy made Egan come on to him. Why did Egan have to come on to him? Could he not have stood back as well and waited for the Chinese boxer to come on to him? Why did he have to go forward?

There was, RTÉ showed 3 replays of scores the Chinese fighter got. One landed on the gloves, another was a palm to the face(not even with any force) and the other looked like a slap, it definitely wasn't the white part of the glove anyway.

They then showed a 12-15 second clip of one part of the fight where Egan scored 3/4 clear blows(four if you want to count a clear perfect bodyshot with force).

I also saw a clear left uppercut for Egan not scored right after the Chinese boxer scored his first point. I also saw the Chinese boxer earn one point when he didn't throw and Egan landed.


I'd say if you watched the whole fight back in slow motion you would find Egan a winner by two maybe even 3 times the Chinese fighters score. But it seems easier to justify when you're watching it live and watching the scores go up. It was a blatent robbery and I'm not surprised hearing the controversy about judging selections.

[the 12 th man]

It sounds like sour grapes giving out about judges but that fight was a hometown job if ever you saw one.Egan hit the Chinese guy with 2 top notch body shots and not scored.

The Olympics should be impartially judged.

[rambler14]

Kenny Egan was robbed IMO.
He connected at least 4 or 5 times and got no scores for it where as the Chinese fella only had to blink and got points.
In fact on numerous occasions Egan connected and the Chinese fella got a point!........that happened at least 3 or 4 times!
You knew it wasn't gonna be Egan's day when the Chinese fella got a point while standing 2 feet away from Egan.

Keep the Chinese happy!, No golds for Ireland!..............Keep the Chinese happy!, No golds for Ireland!................Keep the Chinese happy!, No golds for Ireland!.....................Keep the Chinese happy!, No golds for Ireland!.................Keep the Chinese happy!, No golds for Ireland!

[passinginterest]

I wanted to see a slightly less biased reaction so as soon as the fight ended I flicked to the BBC and they were probably more shocked than RTE. The studio presenter said something along the lines of "I can't imagine what you must be thinking if you're watching in Ireland".

I had felt it was a fairly close fight right through but Egan probably deserved to be level at worst at the end. When he got within a point the Chinese fella seemed to get another point without even throwing a punch.

Hard to take but a silver and two bronze is a fantastic return from this Olympics.

[bennocelt]

I am really gutted, really gutted

I thought the judging was alright upto this fight, and all the fights i saw the true winner did come out on top
BUT jeez Egan was def robbed in this fight
I would have had the score level - and Egan to win it on countback

im really peed off, and the Chinese cheat said he would beat Egan in Dublin too - well bring that on

did anyone see the judo and the way the british were cheated in that???

[the 12 th man]

From betfair forum.



BEIJING (AFP) — Boxing officials were battling to contain a major scandal on Saturday as serious claims of bribery and the manipulation of Olympic judging panels emerged after a series of disputed bouts.

The International Boxing Association (AIBA) suspended Romanian technical delegate Rudel Obreja after he held an impromptu and rowdy press conference and made lurid allegations against senior officials.

AIBA also revealed that it had been tracking "possible attempts of manipulation" for more than two months and had brought in an International Olympic Committee (IOC) observer "when the situation became more serious".

At a testy media conference late on Friday, AIBA technical delegate Terry Smith was grilled by journalists who questioned a series of Olympic results.

Smith insisted none of the fights was ***** although he said the scoring system, where three out of five judges need to press a button simultaneously for a point to be awarded, was under review.

"I'm quite confident that nothing has affected these bouts," Smith said.

He denied Obreja's suspension was a "tit-for-tat" move after the Romanian said a top official was involved in manipulating judging panels and claimed bribery was at work in AIBA presidential elections of 2006.

Taiwanese President Wu Ching-kuo declined to address the disciplinary affair but admitted judging standards needed a shake-up.

"You can see from this tournament how we need to upgrade the level of the judges," he told journalists on Saturday.

"We need re-education and re-training to achieve a higher level. No more cheating, no more manipulation but better referee judges."

Obreja's unauthorised news conference on Friday ended in chaos when it was interrupted by AIBA secretary-general Ho Kim and the two traded heated remarks.

Obreja had been about to be removed from the commission overseeing the computerised refereeing draw, according to disciplinary official Tom Virgets.

The extraordinary developments accompany a series of ringside controversies which have incensed the boxers and coaches involved.

Frenchman Alexis Vastine screamed and wept after Dominican Felix Diaz was awarded a decisive two-point penalty for holding in the dying seconds of their light welterweight semi-final.

"I've been robbed," said Vastine. "I didn't know that could happen at the Olympics."

Irish light flyweight Paddy Barnes was staggered not to be awarded a single point against Zou Shiming in the Chinese world champion's 15-0 victory.

The Algerian camp had also claimed Ouatah Newfel was unfairly eliminated from the super heavyweight quarter-finals to smooth the path of China's Zhang Zhilei.

Ukrainian fighter Vyacheslav Glazkov, who beat Newfel and was due to face Zhang in the semis, withdrew at the last minute on Friday with an elbow injury.

AIBA's Smith said there had been no foul play, adding Obreja's allegations were "totally wrong".

"I will be the first to admit that not every point scored in boxing is recorded," he said.

"There will be points missed but we know most of the time that the right boxer wins the contest."

Smith added that Obreja's claims were under investigation and that AIBA hoped to settle the matter soon.

Disciplinary commission member Virgets also praised the reforms to the AIBA under president Wu Ching-Kuo.

"For 20 years this has been an organisation that has been under a cloud of suspicion but we have seen in the last year or so, under the new reforms, that that suspicion has been largely reduced," Virgets said.

Olympic boxing has a turbulent history including attacks on referees and sit-down protests. At Seoul 1988, Korean boxing officials attacked New Zealand referee Keith Walker, sparking a full-scale riot.

-----------------------

Barnes got no points at all against a Chinese opponent when he blatently scored about 4 clear points-ffs.

[Red&White Rover]

I knew that the Chinese was obviously going to get some of the decisions today as he was at home, but I mean, some of taht was ridiculous.

I'd be spitting if I was Egan, and I'm sure he will be if he ever decides to watch the fight again...

[Boh_So_Good]

Another horrific performance by our Irish olympic "heroes"..., boxing aside another complete flop.

Well what do you expect when our 'sport-mad culture' puts more emphasis on potential medal winners reaching their sporting excellence in some damp field in Mayo on a Sunday morning involved in a "passionate" battle between two miserable townlands no one ever heard of.

You wonder how many medal winners over the decades were lost to the blackhole of regionalised idiosyncratic insularism that is the GAA rather than representing their nation in the eyes of the world in sports other than unheard of oddities of hurling and bogball.

Our League of Ireland clubs in recent years have been far more heroic flying the Irish flag worldwide than the GAA (or senior Irish soccer them) can possibly be and our olympic heroes with their massive media attention are capable of.

This is an upsidedown country in sport.

[Dodge]

Another horrific performance by our Irish olympic "heroes"..., boxing aside another complete flop

All bar 3 of the athletes performed above their rankings. All swimmers, sailors, cyclists and canoeists performed above their rankings. The rowers were at their ranking.

Not a flop, just not very good at the sports...

[rambler14]

Paul Hession did well and I suppose Alistair Cragg getting to the final is good. Don't orget Eoin Reinisch coming 4th in the canoeing is an achievement too.

But still a sh!t games for Ireland. Not good enough. A review of training is needed.

[Dodge]

A review of training is needed.

Its nothing to do with training. We just don't have anything near the facilities, or the numbers participating in sports, to EVER be a world figure.

I'll post it again for people who think this olympics was a disappointment. Its only the 2nd time in our hostory that we've had more than 2 medalists (and the sailing pair don't count)

[Bluebeard]

But still a sh!t games for Ireland.

Three different people winning medals for Ireland? I'm not remotely interested in boxing, but I'd have to disagree. And most athletes out performing their standing as Dodge said.

Unless we are comparing ourselves to countries of upwards of 20m (or 4-5 times our population), and with more economically desirable natural resources to fund long established Sports Academies. In that case, yes, a sh!t games for Ireland.

[bennocelt]

But still a sh!t games for Ireland. Not good enough. A review of training is needed.

I agree, we should be doing much better in reality

the boxers did us proud (thanks to Keegan and the other unsung heroes), Hession and Eoin Rein did excellent, ................but the rest?

Im sorry but we do have plenty of sporty people in this country. We are surrounded by water and cant win in sailing? We have the best horses and jockeys in the world and can never medal in equestrian? Shooting? Mountain bike racing? rowing?

I think you cant really blame the athletes, they try their best under the circumstances. I really blame the Olympic commitee, pat Hickey and all that. Delaney also on the irish olympic board, jeez. Thats the problem they havent a clue about sport. I think more people like Keegan should be running the show

Apart from the boxers, we have the wrong people representing us. Guys from Dun Laoghaire in the sailing?( i mean, please!!)
. Maybe stick a guy from Connemara in there. Ruby walsh type on a horse. A guy built like anyone of the Cork hurlers doing any of the team sports. Why cant the female ga players be trained to do volleyball or handball. Im not joking there are people who are fit, healthy and made for sport - its just that someone in sports admin needs to refocus their efforts into the right sports, and unfortunately we have fools running the show

[superfrank]

There's just not enough investment in Irish Olympic sports. GAA gets the most money, GAA, football, horseracing and rugby get all the attention in the media.

After that, there's very little effort made to get people involved in other sports. That's why we don't produce top athletes. And that investment won't be coming along for a long time with the budget cuts.

[Dodge]

[QUOTE=bennocelt;1005871]Im sorry but we do have plenty of sporty people in this country. We are surrounded by water and cant win in sailing? [/qupte]
You realise we're not the only country that has a coastline don't you?

We have the best horses and jockeys in the world and can never medal in equestrian?

We have good horse races, and some Irish horses were ranked in the top 19 in 3 day eventing. There was only one Irish horse in showjumping (ridden by a Belgian who finished nowehere)

Shooting? Mountain bike racing? rowing?

What do you actually know about these sports, and why di you think we should be doing better?

Apart from the boxers, we have the wrong people representing us. Guys from Dun Laoghaire in the sailing?( i mean, please!!)
. Maybe stick a guy from Connemara in there. Ruby walsh type on a horse. A guy built like anyone of the Cork hurlers doing any of the team sports.

This is the laziest piece of thinking ever.

Some people, need a serious smack of common sense when it comes to sports in this country.

[endabob1]

Firstly the boxing was a farce, the only way to get a decision against the Chinese in a contest like that was to do what the Italian lad did in the next fight and stop him. I thought Egan was ver magnanamous in defeat afterwards, I would say when he watches a re-run it will leave him less impressed.
With regard to the rest of the olympic team, it's all right to say they performed to their world ranking but do yous not think that is the problem, the "ah sure they did their best" attitude is rampant. The Brits won medals in Cycling, because they hosted the last track world championships and pumped loads of lottery money into it. They've done the same with Rowing, Sailing & Swiming They hired the former Australian Swiming coach which is why they've done so well in the pool, unless there is serious investment in
A) Facilities
B) Coaches
&
C) The athletes themselves to allow them to be fully professional
there will be no progress & few more Olympic medals for Ireland.
The trick is to pinpoint sports that we can quickly get to international standard in and which aren't overrun with dominant bigger nations

[Bluebeard]

unless there is serious investment in
A) Facilities
B) Coaches
&
C) The athletes themselves to allow them to be fully professional
there will be no progress & few more Olympic medals for Ireland.

I completely agree. Unfortunately, unless things have changed dramatically in the past 18 months since I've been away, most of that money set aside for "Sports" will be divided equally into five pots as follows:
1. Horse Racing
2. Greyhounds
3. GAA / Rugby / Football combined
4. Incredibly basic infrastructure / All other Sports / ministerial fact finding trips to watch Man U in the Champions League / the provision of a big tent at the Galway Races / a new hat for the ministers wife for Royal Ascot and .
5. More Horse racing, and probably a bit of dressage for the craic with the change.

One cannot complain - Horse racing gets the most success, has the most coverage, and brings in the most money. It probably is also by certain accounts the most popular "Sport" in Ireland - Olympics or no Olympics, people talk about it. How many people will be bemoaning the sad state of Irish Athletics in 10 weeks time, when the football and rugby are full tilt?

A female friend of mine who was big in volleyball (no, not a reclaimed Gaelic footballer) used to volunteer / work for the volleyball association. After one year's budget announcement, she told me that this year, there was enough money for a national men's volleyball team, or a national women's team. Not both. Volleyball does not win votes, so give it a token few quid to give the impression that we're doing our bit. This, I might add, was when we were hearing how unprecedented the surplus in the exchequer was, and the same year that the Education Dept was expected to return €50m unspent.

The trick is to pinpoint sports that we can quickly get to international standard in and which aren't overrun with dominant bigger nations

Again, this is the way forward, but it is incredibly unlikely that Ireland can have real success with this tactic, without colossal investment. Firstly, because these sports may seem "minority" to us, but some major nation must have lobbied for it to be there or it would not have made it (would there be softball without the States demanding it? And where is Pelota or our style of Handball?) Secondly, if it is a genuine minority type sport, all the bigger nations are bigger (duh) and therefore are likely to have large minorities who like these sports (in many cases larger than our potential pool of sporty people not already copywritten by the GAA). Finally, if we do identify something like that, we are talking about at least 15 years of aggressive promotion, backed by heavy financial commitment from the government, and genuine exposure from RTE, married to a nationwide net of local clubs and teacher led introduction in the schools from an early age, with no guarantee of a medal as the Michael Phelps of whatever sport may come good in Mongolia or Togo at the same time as our great hope.

Traditionally, boxing has been a good sport for us, and perhaps we should target things that are at least within our nature. The horses would be a good bet, if we could keep them off the drugs (step aside professional cycling!), but really, is this the way forward - few enough people in Ireland have access to that kind of sports facility? Similarly sailing.

Personally, I think that the hammer would be a plausible event for Ireland to aim for, but this is largely based on the fact that it is the only event we ever won Gold twice in (Dr. Patrick O'Callaghan - in my opinion, our greatest Olympian); it currently seems to be sewn up by the former Soviet bloc, but the world record stands since 1986, so it is not as difficult to estimate your chances of a medal there as with the 100m - one of the reasons for Britain's cycling success is their concentration on the track - they know to a split second what a gold medal winner is likely to be able to do a lap in. If you can get close, you get close to a medal. That is the approach I'd like to see taken whatever we target.